ABC News primetime special on UFOs

[candy]

Did I miss it or did the show not cover the Kecksburg crash site?

 

[Starman]

What crap. You obviously didn't read the rest of my post above, either. The military doesn't go about dropping flares to cover for alien spacecraft and create disinformation. That kind of conspiracy theory is utter crap.

The so-called "solid, triangular object" was observed by many to be several objects, not a solid one. The woo-woos don't accept this and the news media doesn't like to report their accounts because they're not sensational enough.

See the reference I cited above.

But the woo-woo habit is to be close-minded and accept only those explanations that fit their mold of alien spacecraft, regardless of simplier, more probable explanations such as military manuevers, flares, and a flight of aircraft.

Bleh.

So sure are we? Simpler more probable? Alien Spacecraft?

From your assertions, I would say your conclusions do not bare much in reality.

You can post photos of flairs and explain the different type of such; however flairs and Alien spacecraft are wild assertions on your part.

The objects in the video footage are not what the eye witnesses saw flying over Phoenix. What they did see was a huge triangular object moving slowly at low altitude not making any noise with three lights in the outer extremities of the triangular object. If you wish to assert that it was an Alien Spacecraft well ok it could be, however because it was un-identifiable is it not pre-mature to say it is of ET origin? I for one am sure that many UFOLOGIST would agree, the object is a UFO, nothing more, nothing less at this point.

By your reckless assertions, you claim to have all the answers to explain what UFO's are. Is this not as inappropriate as stating that they are Alien Spacecraft of ET origin? UFO's are just that Un-Identified Flying Objects why is this so hard to understand? You have no more evidence than anyone else that would lead to the identification of the UFO witnessed flying over Phoenix or any UFO anywhere else for that matter.

Some UFO's do become positively identified and therefore they are no longer UFO,s.

The Alien Spacecraft that crashed at Near Corona New Mexico was not a UFO. It was positively identified as an Alien ET Spacecraft including Intelligent Life Forms from another planet so it is not a UFO. The Government created a Cover-up story because they thought people like yourself could not handle the truth. I would tend to have to agree with the Military and the Government.

The lesser mind will except any other explanation no matter how silly just so they will not have to face reality. The truth about Roswell was told in the first news release. The evidence is overwhelming and any other explanation or attempt to dismiss the truth about the Roswell incident is an act of ignorance on a colossal scale. And that is the end of that story.

There are many in this Country who can not handle the truth.

 

[VRob]

He obviously held the same hysterical belief of 'flying saucers' that was gripping the rest of the nation and, when encountering material he had never seen, made some stupid assumptions. The guy should have been charged with several violations of the UCMJ for making a press statement regarding Cold War military operation and been court-martialed as a result.

Really?? Then why was he later promoted to General?

The materials were new and the nature of the operation was secretive. Would you expect anything different? Why wouldn't the military keep their operations against the Soviet Union as secretive as they could?

Incorrect, the material used in the Mogul balloon construction was nothing new. It was very basic, even primitive compared to our own aircraft material of the time. You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

National security surrounding a Cold War operation. If, indeed, the buzz was as significant as you want to claim.

Yada, yada, yada.... Just the fact that you're unaware of the significance that was given the Roswell base at the time shows your ignorance on a subject you so vehemiently redicule at every opportunity.

Why hold brown-skinned people who speak Farsi and pray to the east for no other reason than they have brown skin, speak a language other-than-Spanish, and pray to the East? If, indeed, it happened as you say it did.

I've no doubt that you read these things in one of the many fictional books on Roswell that pass themselves off as "non-fiction," but that doesn't mean they are, indeed, factual. If the guy was held, it's very likely that we don't have the full context of his situation.



No shit.



It wasn't a weather balloon. It was a high-altitude balloon system that had new or protype technologies involved. The very material of the balloons themselves were probably classified at that time. The Cold War created paranoia and secrecy such as the nation has never seen. One need only read some history unrelated to Roswell, but related to the Cold War to realize this. I recommend Melvyn P. Leffler's The Specter of Communism.

Face it. Roswell, the holy grail of Ufoology, is a myth with regard to a "crashed alien spaceship."

Oh please. You are probably one of those people who swallows each and every bull$hit explanation the establishment feeds you. Like I said in the other thread. You're a tool. But, I have to give you credit. You're a very good tool.

 

[Starman]

The materials were new and the nature of the operation was secretive. Would you expect anything different? Why wouldn't the military keep their operations against the Soviet Union as secretive as they could?

The materials were new? Ok maybe to a Cave Man. A rubber balloon, Balsa wood and aluminum foil that anyone who had eaten a Hershey’s chocolate bar or chewed gum was very familiar with.

Anyone who believes the materials were anything new, wins the ignorance is the order of the day award.

It wasn't a weather balloon. It was a high-altitude balloon system that had new or protype technologies involved. The very material of the balloons themselves were probably classified at that time. The Cold War created paranoia and secrecy such as the nation has never seen. One need only read some history unrelated to Roswell, but related to the Cold War to realize this. I recommend Melvyn P. Leffler's The Specter of Communism.
Face it. Roswell, the holy grail of Ufoology, is a myth with regard to a "crashed alien spaceship."

I just do not understand why anyone would classify a balloon, candy bar or gum rapper.

The project was classified the materials were not. Hello!!! Mc Fly!!!

 

[VRob]

You know what's amusing Skinwalker,

You strut around this site like you actually know what you're talking about, but whenever anyone presents you with details of any particular incident, you prove to not be familiar with it. What this tells me is that, in reality, you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. You've done very little research on this subject whatsoever. You've been taken 100% by the Govmt's propaganda machine related to this subject. You'll probably respond that it's some mass halucination that the Govmt/military would try to debunk this subject. But, If you did even a little bit of research, you'd know that this was a deliberate, and verifiable fact.

I don't frequent this board often, but when I do, I continually see you attacking each and every issue like you're some kind of authority on the subject. Sure, most of the threads are rediculous, and worthy of dismissal. But you wouldn't know this. You lump everything together as if you have some inside knowledge of some sort. What are you afraid of Skinwalker? Does the idea that we may have been visited turn your life upside down? Are you a religous zelot who's hanging on to his own delusion? I'm trying to understand why/how you can attack and ridicule this subject at every angle when you've shown that your knowledge of it is extremely limited if not altogether nonexistent.

For the regular contributers on this board, why do you even acknowledge this tool? He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about when he ridicules. He's proven this over and over again by not knowing the basic details of some of the most well-known incidents.

Anyways, I need to run off to a meeting. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.


I just hope that the regular contributors

 

[SkinWalker]

Really?? Then why was he later promoted to General?

Because his bosses were idiots. Because of promotional politics. Because the the incident was deemed not to have occurred in the interest of keeping further embarrassment out of the news. Maybe all of the above. Who cares? The military came clean on the operation. It was project Mogul. Occam's Razor..... etc.

Incorrect, the material used in the Mogul balloon construction was nothing new. It was very basic, even primitive compared to our own aircraft material of the time. You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

Really? What were the materials? What is your source of information? Do you have a sample of the materials to look at? If the balloons were constructed of Mylar, this material wasn't made public until the 1950s. In that case the material was very new.

Yada, yada, yada.... Just the fact that you're unaware of the significance that was given the Roswell base at the time shows your ignorance on a subject you so vehemiently redicule at every opportunity.

I'm saying that the buzz made no difference. It was a cold war operation. The the post-WWII nation was in the middle of hysteria about 1) flying saucers; 2) the emerging Soviet threat. Your assessment of the nature of the culture in the late 1940s is one that doesn't consider the true cultural contexts. Just the sort of things that UFO cultists adhere to in their belief systems.

Oh please. You are probably one of those people who swallows each and every bull$hit explanation the establishment feeds you. Like I said in the other thread. You're a tool. But, I have to give you credit. You're a very good tool.

I assure you, I'm skeptical of the authority of the government when applicable. But I've also seen first hand the nature of military beaurocracy and how, if you don't ask the right questions, you can have trouble getting the information you want. I'm also quite familiar with S2/G2 security protocols enough to see that whatever information became public in the 1940's, the military wasn't about to reveal the true nature of Project Mogul or the ejection seat tests that were being conducted in the desert.

There is the possibility that an alien spacecraft crashed in the desert of New Mexico, but there simply isn't any compelling evidence to support the notion while there is sensible, reasonable evidence to disbelieve it. For one, that UFOs are, indeed, alien spacecraft is, in itself, an unlikely and unproven notion. That the US military is given to conduct operations, even mundane and routine ones, while maintaining operational security (OPSEC) is proven.

But what is most fascinating about the Roswell case is that nature by which ETI-UFO believers cling to it as a "Meca" of ufology. This furthers my contention that the ETI-UFO movement is a religion. The site is a "holy place" to believers and skeptics are the "heretics" and the "infidels." Defending the site's sacred status and venturing into the profane world of non-believers to defend the "faith" is a ritualistic event.

ETI-UFOlogy is a religion. Lazar, Friedman, Greer, and others are the prophets, priests and shamans of the cult. The unwilling nature of ETI-UFO cultists to accept notions contrary to the religion, in spite of real and testable evidence in favor of untestable and paranormal nature of UFOs as alien spacecraft is a testament in and of itself.

 

[SkinWalker]

You strut around this site like you actually know what you're talking about, but whenever anyone presents you with details of any particular incident, you prove to not be familiar with it.

I'm not so arrogant that I cannot accept correction when wrong. Point out where I've been factually incorrect.

You've done very little research on this subject whatsoever.

I've read the same nonsense literature you have. Watched the same pseudo-documentaries on the SciFi and Discovery channels. Visited some of the same nutter sites you have.

You've been taken 100% by the Govmt's propaganda machine related to this subject.

More likely, you've been taken 100% by the ETI-UFO cult propaganda.

You'll probably respond that it's some mass halucination that the Govmt/military would try to debunk this subject.

Mass hysteria and hallucinations are associated with the various "miracles" of Catholic cults... why not with the ETI-UFO cult?

But, If you did even a little bit of research, you'd know that this was a deliberate, and verifiable fact.

Research? Cite any peer-reviewed article on the subject. I dare you. The only sources of information that truly exist are spurious documents (like the disproven MJ-12 garbage), UFO nutter websites, various blurry photos, and a slew of anecdotal claims from UFO believers. The same, exact, kinds of claims you see in any other religion. Christian believers claim to be healed, saved, etc.; the Azande claim to be afflicted by witchcraft; Hatian voodoo believers claim to have seen the dead rise; etc., etc,

I don't frequent this board often, but when I do, I continually see you attacking each and every issue like you're some kind of authority on the subject. Sure, most of the threads are rediculous, and worthy of dismissal.

Pseudoscience needs to be exposed. It's bad for society. It's stinkin' thinkin' People get their money taken and their educations wasted, etc. etc.

But you wouldn't know this.

Point out where I've been factually wrong. I'll either refute it or acknowledge my ignorance. I've acknowledged where I was wrong on this forum before.

What are you afraid of Skinwalker? Does the idea that we may have been visited turn your life upside down?

I'm afraid that the level of stupidity and pseudoscientific crap present in popular literature and gaining legitimacy in popular culture will contribute to the downfall of our society. That's the short version.

But what are you afraid of, VRob? Why does it matter to you how I respond to the crap that gets suggested in this (or any other) forum? I hope to be proven wrong about "alien visitation." I hope they are coming to our little planet. But that's no reason to hold religious retreats and create new religions based on the alien visitors that haven't been proven to exist any more than the pantheon of gods we already have. Why does the idea that we might not have been visited disturb you so much? Why does this possibility anger you so? Does the herecy of the idea threaten your religion?

He's proven this over and over again by not knowing the basic details of some of the most well-known incidents.

Like I said: educate us. Show me what I'm missing? Like the first use of Mylar? You said it was commonly in use during the 1940s. It wasn't. And you say I'm ignorant? I think that you think you're knowledgable about such things... but just aren't. Wasn't that you that suggested that the Giza architecture of Egypt was something like 10,000 years old a while back?

Anyways, I need to run off to a meeting. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I think you have some change coming.

 

[2inquisitive]

by SkinWalker:


"Like I said: educate us. Show me what I'm missing? Like the first use of Mylar? You said it was commonly in use during the 1940s. It wasn't. And you say I'm ignorant? I think that you think you're knowledgable about such things... but just aren't. Wasn't that you that suggested that the Giza architecture of Egypt was something like 10,000 years old a while back?"
===============================================================

Damn, SkinWalker, are you always so confused, or do you think it is fine to, uh, stretch
the truth to the breaking point on purpose when debating 'one of them thar UFO nutters'? What about the 'scientific method' you espose all the time? Ever try abiding
by it? Mylar. Where did THAT come from? Oh, I know, you pulled it out of your arse
like so much of your 'debunking' material. You claimed VRob said it was in common use in the 1940's. Where did he state that? He stated the balloons were made of common
materials of the day. Why not just state the balloons were made of 'secret carbon
nanotubes' and make it sound real impressive. After all, neither Mylar nor carbon nanotubes existed in 1947. Or perhaps you have inside information they were a part
of the 'flying saucer's' construction and reverse engineered? I thought not. It takes
about 60 seconds on google to find out what the project Mogul balloons were constructed of, something most who were already familiar with the Roswell incident alread knew, or at least remembered the baloons weren't constructed of anything
unusual. Neoprene, synthetic rubber, which was produced by about 50 companies
by 1944 for the war effort. Later Mogul balloons were made of polyethylene, similiar to
your 'plastic' grocery bags, which was introduced by ICI in Britian in 1933. Official info:

"Professor Moore, the on-scene Project Engineer, gave detailed information concerning his team's efforts. He recalled that radar targets were used for tracking balloons because they did not have all the necessary equipment when they first arrived in New Mexico. Some of the early, developmental radar targets were manufactured by a toy or novelty company. These targets were made up of aluminum "foil" or foil-backed paper, balsa wood beams that were coated in an "Elmer's-type" glue to enhance their durability, acetate and/or cloth reinforcing tape, single strand and braided nylon twine, brass eyelets and swivels to form a multi-faced reflector somewhat similar in construction to a box kite (see photographs, Atch 26). Some of these targets were also assembled with purplish-pink tape with symbols on it (see drawing by Moore with Atch 2 1).

According to the log summary (Atch 27) of the NYU group, Flight A through Flight 7 (November 20, 1946-July 2, 1947) were made with neoprene meteorological balloons (as opposed to the later flights made with polyethylene balloons). Professor Moore stated that the neoprene balloons were susceptible to degradation in the sunlight, turning from a milky white to a dark brown. He described finding remains of balloon trains with reflectors and payloads that had landed in the desert: the ruptured and shredded neoprene would "almost look like dark gray or black flakes or ashes after exposure to the sun for only a few days"
http://www.af.mil/lib/roswell.html

 

[Starman]

I'm not so arrogant that I cannot accept correction when wrong. Point out where I've been factually incorrect.

The materials used in project mogul. You said they were advanced and top secret. They were not.

Need more be said.

 

[SkinWalker]

Mylar. Where did THAT come from? Oh, I know, you pulled it out of your arse like so much of your 'debunking' material.

Actually I got it from the Government Accounting Office. They published The Roswell Report: Case Closed and it was on page 104. Look for the chemical name of the balloon material, which is called polyethylene. Mylar™ is the brand name for DuPont's polyethylene terephthalate. It was publicly available in the 1950s and therefore not a "common materials of the day" as Starman and VRob would like to believe. It's likely that there were other materials or gear on the balloons and payloads that a Cold War government would like to keep from being common knowledge -the kind of things that we wouldn't want Soviet analysts attempting to draw conclusions or inferences from. But the real question might be why you are interested in what might or might not be in my arse.

That the materials weren't "common of the day" is important, because it would explain why they weren't immediately recognized by the people who found them. If you came across a torn up Mylar balloon today, you would likely recognize it as the sort you'd find in Walmart, even if it didn't say "Happy Birthday" and sport an image of My Little Pony. But in the late 1940s and early 1950s, this sort of material would have been as alien as if it came from another world.

Why not just state the balloons were made of 'secret carbon nanotubes' and make it sound real impressive.

Two reasons: 1) I don't know what a 'carbon nanotube' would be and, 2) the officially released information states that they were polyethylene, otherwise known as Mylar.

After all, neither Mylar nor carbon nanotubes existed in 1947.

Ahem: Read this PDF and note how Mylar™ was introduced to the public in the early 1950s. Roswell occurred in 1947. Moreover, the GAO states in its own report that the material was polyethylene (a.k.a. Mylar™ ).

It takes about 60 seconds on google to find out

... that the internet is popular culture, not necessarily the end all, be all of information. Look past the woo-woo sites into the primary sources for a change. i.e. DuPont, Inc. and the GAO. Oh... yeah, you don't trust the government. Oh well.

The problem with rubber balloons was that they expanded as the gas expanded, thus bursting as they gained altitude. The polyethylene/Mylar balloons didn't. Altitude was what was important, since the goal was to gain as high an altitude as possible. Perhaps the earlier balloons were, indeed, constructed of neoprene, prompting the use of the new material of Mylar. But let's not overlook the fact that Roswell is near the White Sands Proving Grounds, just where you would expect such operations to occur. Perhaps the Case Closed reference (p. 104) is in regard only to Operation High Dive, but the difference in time is negligible and because of the altitudes Operation Mogul was attempting to achieve, just neoprene wasn't going to work. The Operation Mogul balloon series may have had a combination of neoprene and polyethylene since they used a "string" of balloons and the Mylar™ balloons weren't filled to capacity in order to allow expansion of the gas. The neoprene balloons may have been used to provide initial lift.

There are a lot of possibilities regarding Project Mogul and Project High Dive as far as operationally how they were done and the appearance of the debris they left. What is certain is that these types of missions were conducted. First, we have photographic record as well as some operational records as released by the Department of Defense, GAO, et al, which depict these operations. Second, they are exactly the kind of operations that would have been necessary in a post-WWII, Cold War United States in order to gain intelligence and improve flight technologies.

That people perpetuate the mythology surrounding Roswell isn't surprising. Humans live for a good myth it seems.

 

[SkinWalker]

The materials used in project mogul. You said they were advanced and top secret. They were not.

Need more be said.

I didn't say they were top secret. I said they were new and may have been a contributing factor to the secrecy. There were likely other contributing factors as well, such as the need to keep the Soviet analysts in the dark as much as possible. There was also paranoia within the U.S. government as a result of the Cold War posturing.. I believe I said that as well.

But I'm not surprised that there are those that only read/see what they want.

 

[2inquisitive]

There's a problem, SkinWalker. Mylar is a part of the polyethylene family, the PLASTICS
family. But not all the polyethylene family is Mylar, a DuPoint brand name for the PET
class. Polyethylene products were not rare in 1947. Again, where did you get the idea
the balloons were made of mylar? There are tons of different polyethylene formulations,
the plastics family.
edit for link: read no. 7
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttplast.html

 

[MacM]

I am not a UFO buff and believe that the overwhelming majority of such sightings and claims are bunk. HOWEVER:

How many of you have seen a satelite go over at night.? I have and I can tell you that in the fall of 1952, I and two others were laying on the westward sloping roof of the implement shed on our farm just looking at the stars and what we saw was precisely what you see when a satelite goes over only there were three and moving west to east but at about 11 O Clock overhead they abruptly turned south and continued to move until out of sight.

This was years before satelites and they appeared to be moving at about the same speed that satelites do now. I can't say what they were but it was not something one saw in those days.

 

[SkinWalker]

There's a problem, SkinWalker.

There's always a problem when an infidel questions the faith of true believers.

Mylar is a part of the polyethylene family, the PLASTICS family. But not all the polyethylene family is Mylar, a DuPoint brand name for the PET class. Polyethylene products were not rare in 1947.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But I think it is very likely that what was seen by Brazel and others in June of 1947 was Mylar, based on their descriptions of the material's characteristics.

Again, where did you get the idea the balloons were made of mylar? There are tons of different polyethylene formulations, the plastics family.

There are several members of the polystyrene family, but the characteristics of the balloon as described by those that handled the material were of the Mylar type. Mylar was introduced in 1952 and was very likely tested in a variety of applications before its introduction. Wouldn't you agree? I don't think 5 years is too big of a stretch to say that it, or a prototype of it, was in use. Perhaps the crash of Mogul Flight #4 was due to a flawed prototype of Mylar. That's certainly more plausible than to say that aliens traveled untold light years to reach us only to crash in the desert in their flimsy, poorly constructed craft.

But surely the myth of Roswell, the Holy Grail of Ufology, doesn't hinge on the availability of Mylar 5 years before it was marketed by DuPont?

 

[SkinWalker]

in the fall of 1952, I and two others were laying on the westward sloping roof of the implement shed on our farm just looking at the stars and what we saw was precisely what you see when a satelite goes over only there were three and moving west to east but at about 11 O Clock overhead they abruptly turned south and continued to move until out of sight.

This was years before satelites ...

When you say "11 O Clock," do you mean with regards to time or position on the horizon? Could it have been high-flying aircraft that were high enough to reflect sunlight from the horizon? I would think that 11pm would be too late for even this effect, but if it were earlier in the evening or perhaps in a summer month? I have seen this sort of thing before myself, assuming it to be aircraft/sunlight combination, but naturally was unable to verify without high-powered binoculars or telescope. A UFO to be sure, but alien spaceship, probably not.

 

[2inquisitive]

So, you conspiracy theorist you, SkinWalker, you believe the government is STILL lying
about what they recovered? In the DOE report you linked to, here is the official explaination:
"Upon review of the local newspaper photographs from General Ramey's press conference in 1947 and descriptions in popular books by individuals who supposedly handled the debris recovered on the ranch, Professor Moore opined that the material was most likely the shredded remains of a multi-neoprene balloon train with multiple radar reflectors. The material and a "black box," described by Cavitt, was, in Moore's scientific opinion, most probably from Flight 4, a "service flight" that included a cylindrical metal sonobuoy and portions of a weather instrument housed in a box, which was unlike typical weather radiosondes which were made of cardboard."

Even polyethylene, let alone Mylar, was not used in the service flights, one of which,
Flight 4, was said to have been the one representing the 'debris' recovered. Do you
believe they are still protecting that secret material, Mylar? The reason I mentioned
carbon nanotubes earlier was because they exibit almost EXACTLY the characteristics
described by those 'nutter' reports: extremely high burning point, a strength greater than steel, and it can be made into a 'memory' material, returning to its original shape
without wrinkles after deforming. It is proposed as a material to make the next generation space shuttles out of because of its strength and heat resistence. The
material is also very light.

 

[btimsah]

Where are the debris from the Roswell crash?

If the crash was something of ours, then show us the documentation, artifact's or debris left over from the crash in government documents.

The "case closed" bullshit ironically is yet another hypothesis. They are not saying, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. They are saying this is the only thing they can hypothesize with no physical evidence because what crashed was not this.

I mean really.. if it's a mogul weather-ballon.. where the hell is it?

 

[2inquisitive]

A weather balloon in a box has been displayed as the 'official' material recovered, the
same weather balloon (NOT Mogul balloon) that was shown in the photograph.

 

[SkinWalker]

you believe the government is STILL lying
about what they recovered?

Why would they need to lie? It was almost 60 years ago. Any inferrences we make today is on the available information. There is no reliable information that suggests that anything occurred in Roswell in 1947 that couldn't be explained by Projects Mogul and High Dive. Mylar may not have been used, but if the witness reports of the "memory material" are based on actual observation and not fantasy, then this would fit the description.

But lie? The government never said that "Mylar was not used."

In the DOE report you linked to, here is the official explaination:

But if you look on page 104, you'll see that the description of the balloons' construction was of polystyrene. It's mentioned again on 117, I believe. I'll check those page numbers at another time... better yet, look in the index for "Balloons" then "polystyrene" just under that. Mylar is a polystyrene. Mylar fits the descriptions given by alleged witnesses to the debris.

Even polyethylene, let alone Mylar, was not used in the service flights, one of which, Flight 4, was said to have been the one representing the 'debris' recovered.

The link I referred to wasn't for the information found at that url, but rather to refer to the report available from the GAO, The Roswell Report: Case Closed. Refer to this and the page numbers I've indicated. It states, quite clearly, that the balloons were of polystyrene.

But as I said, surely the myth of Roswell hinges on more than Mylar?

Face it: the Roswell case is closed. The UFO nutters are like fundamentalist christians, clinging to creation, the flood, and young-Earth.

 

[2inquisitive]

By the way, SkinWalker, I have met a few soldiers during my stint in the military that
perhaps weren't the brightest bulbs around, but I do not believe any of them were so
ignorant to think a 'flying saucer' could be constructed out of balsa wood, tape, strings
and a rubber balloon that could cross interstellar space. But the head of security at
a high tech base is not supposed to be able to figure that out? Or his superior that
issued the press release? Seems a bit much to swallow for me. I don't know what
happened at Roswell, but it still seems fishy.