I think there is some truth to this, though I suspect more would be drawn to a contemplative monastic lifestyle (like the Trappists or Benedictines) rather than the priesthood. In many respects, anyone from pseudo-Dionysius to Jakob Boehme to Theresa de Avila--or any representative of an apophatic tradition--often suggest a more sincere form of scepticism than is to be found in certain strains of atheistic thinking, i.e., the Dennetts, Gladwells, Harrises, and the like (who ofttimes tread dangerously close to a fundamentalism they purportedly despise--namely, scientism).
A Request Directed to Sciforums' "Atheists"
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
- Status
I think there is some truth to this, though I suspect more would be drawn to a contemplative monastic lifestyle (like the Trappists or Benedictines) rather than the priesthood. In many respects, anyone from pseudo-Dionysius to Jakob Boehme to Theresa de Avila--or any representative of an apophatic tradition--often suggest a more sincere form of scepticism than is to be found in certain strains of atheistic thinking, i.e., the Dennetts, Gladwells, Harrises, and the like (who ofttimes tread dangerously close to a fundamentalism they purportedly despise--namely, scientism).
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Because he's rude. Even if proper spelling is difficult for him, as he alleges in a previous post, that doesn't gainsay the tremendous effort he asks of everyone who reads his posts, to slow down and read at ten percent of our normal rate.
If he looked up the words in the dictionary it might take him an extra one or two minutes to prepare a post. By not doing so, he adds ten or twenty minutes to the aggregate time it takes all of us to read it.
He's simply rude.
If you don't like it, I happily suggest that you stop reading his stupid posts. I guarantee that when people stop responding to them, he will have an angelic epiphany and his spelling will miraculously improve overnight.
As the Head Linguist around here, frankly I doubt his explanation. Those misspellings are so darn cute, that they're unlikely to be the result of random ignorance.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
I hope that you can see the inconsistency there, between the final paragraph and what preceeded it.
On one hand, atheists (all of them? just a few of them? this thread swerves crazily back-and forth on that) are supposedly completely out-of-line because they misrepresent others on this site, they are running rampant in the most abusive and offensive manner imaginable, they resort to caricatures, they are embarassingly loud, and they are the predominant voices on this subforum making it hostile towards theists.
On the other hand, over in the political fora, Tiassa puts great effort into misrepresenting those he disagrees with in the most abusive and offensive manner imaginable, he resorts to caricatures, is embarassingly loud, tries to make his own political view the predominant voice on on those fora, resulting in the fora being quite hostile towards American Republicans and conservatives more generally.
In the religion case, it's argued that something needs to be done. But in the politics case, there's nothing wrong at all and those who disagree with Tiassa will just need to absorb the abuse and try to defend themselves.
That looks hypocritical to me. (It's getting to where Sciforums could justifiably be renamed Hypocrisyforums.)
Why shouldn't we flip it on its head, and argue that something needs to urgently be done to rein in Tiassa on the political fora, so as to make those fora more inviting and friendly to people with all shades of political opinion? And why shouldn't we just shrug about the religion forum and tell "religionists" that if some child-like atheist attacks them, just be a grownup and make a good, thoughtful and persuasive post explaining their own view and what justifies it? Tell them that they will have to establish and defend their own turf?
Why does the religion forum require urgent wholesale changes because a small number of rather aggressive and outspoken atheists post here, while anyone who disagrees with Tiassa's own stylistically-similar politics are told to either man-up or stay off any of the fora where Tiassa posts?
My tongue-in-cheek reply is, simply, welcome to politics... in the USA anyway, Politics is ENTIRELY about dragging your opponent through the mud until he is an unrecognizable mess that nobody would vote for... sad but true
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
My tongue-in-cheek reply is, simply, welcome to politics... in the USA anyway, Politics is ENTIRELY about dragging your opponent through the mud until he is an unrecognizable mess that nobody would vote for... sad but true
That's why I consider Sciforums' political fora to be absolute shit-holes and avoid them like the plague.
I post to the religion forum because despite the occasional heat, it's been one of the most intellectually diverse and smartest fora on Sciforums during the time I've been here. I mean that quite literally. When it comes to the science fora, what in the world are people like me supposed to say about string-theory? I don't have a clue about string-theory, apart from a few things I've read in the popular media. Nobody can really talk about something like that without some university-level exposure to advanced physics. But everybody out there has had exposure to religious ideas and everybody is able to philosophize about them to some extent. It's just common sense.
So this religion forum is kind of the ideal mean on Sciforums in my opinion, half-way between scientific esotericism that I'm not really qualified to address, and the idiotic ranting and posturing that constitutes political "discussion" these days. That's why you will encounter my posts regularly here but rarely see them in some of the other forums.
It worries me when moderators start talking about the religion forum as if it was a problem and start announcing that it urgently needs to change... into what, exactly? (I fear that after the management is done "improving" it, it will be totally ruined and I'll have left Sciforums.)
Good post. I'm no Republican, but you've summed up the inconsistencies far better than I've ever done. I'd recommend submitting a ticket on the matter for official purveyance.
My tongue-in-cheek reply is, simply, welcome to politics... in the USA anyway, Politics is ENTIRELY about dragging your opponent through the mud until he is an unrecognizable mess that nobody would vote for... sad but true
Sure, ya better have skin as thick as an alligator's hide, it also helps to have a sense of humor. Truth is , right now there is so much craziness going on with the Republican side of the aisle, that any member here could have a field day starting threads in the Politics fora, not just Tiassa. IMO there is only one solution(which has been alluded to twice now), get in there and make your voice heard!
Allow me to lay your fears to rest then; as it stands, the only big "change" I wish to enact here is twofold:
1) Treat everyone with some modicum of respect, even if you disagree with their ideas. This basically comes down to no more "your idea/belief is stupid and you are stupid for following it" discussions, as well as a reduction of mudslinging/insults.
2) Reduce the amount of raw dishonesty/fallacy going on. Right now, some people are so desperate the cast certain members or mods in a terrible light that they will go to any length to prove their point. This is NOT the site-feedback or sci-fi open government forum... that kind of stuff needs to be left out of here. Additionally, if you make a claim about a person, you better have some facts to back it up with.
That's... really all. I know this is going to be a heated forum... people are talking about their nearest and dearest beliefs that they hold to be true, yet are often unable to be proven/disproven (to within a reasonable doubt) due to their very nature... yet that doesn't mean we have to act like a bunch of savages.
Obviously, Tiassa is very passionate about his politics and possibly even active in the local politics in his community , as well. Are you passionate about your own politcal beliefs? Do you act on those beliefs?
So you think that Tiassa is a hypocrite for asking atheists to treat theists with some modicum of respect , yet he eviscerates conservatives on the Politics fora for their beliefs?
There is a huge difference in religious belief and political belief, one is abstract and the other actually can and does effect us.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
Yes.
I think there are a lot of people (most recently 3000 people in the World Trade Center complex) who would disagree with the idea that religious belief cannot directly affect them.
No idea who he is to be honest - I'll watch that when I get a chance (can't sit to watch an hour long video at work
) but going by the title of it... I'd say I disagree with him - Science and Religion, IMHO, go hand in hand.
“OH NO! Once again you have destroyed scientific facts with your knowledge of the bible.”
Said nobody…ever!
Alright, Tiassa, I'm calling you out.
Would you please stop deliberately misrepresenting atheism as a brainless cult?
Sciforums is a brainless cult.
Said nobody…ever!
Alright, Tiassa, I'm calling you out.
Would you please stop deliberately misrepresenting atheism as a brainless cult?
Sciforums is a brainless cult.
Last edited:
It isn't that I think stuff in the bible should/does override scientific fact - rather, I think we need a balance of faith and perception to really go anywhere in the world... I mean, look at inventors... they place a certain amount of hope or faith in their products as they design them. Sometimes that faith can be hard to hold onto in the face of adversity.
I would argue that religious radicals ( those wanting a global theocracy) are political, for them there is no separation.
And many politicians base their decisions on religion. Both are (sometimes) a problem.
????? Is he not asking Tiassa to take his own advice?
This. The biggest cause of strife in thiw thread beyond the actual OP is the misrepresentation of the OP. When certain posters haven't been outright defending it with gems like "I can see where he's coming from," (imagine how that would fly if the subject were anything other than atheism) they've been prtending that Tiassa just wants some respect as a theist.
- Status