Just let me or know if there's anything I can do to lessen the pain, or if I'm not the right person, I'm sure there are many people here who would rather see you blaze joyfully than be extinguished. But you don't need virtual relatiosnhips. By far the best would be to find someone near you who acknowledges and supports you.water said:
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
water said:All well, were it not that so far, all those Christians delivered their "best wishes and hopes" with the notion that they are right and I am wrong, and that they have every right to correct me and reject me because I don't fit their idea of me.
What you say fits in with what SnakeLord quoted about the "sword of division". Being yourself, having your own opinions and thinking for yourself - people don't like it - they hate being disagreed with. Often it's those closest to us who exert the greatest pressure to conform and that is very painful being rejected.
However, I urge you not to be extinguished, keep being different and hold to your own opinions. Many people (e.g. many christians) just believe what they are told and "fit in", that's why disagreement is threatening to them. They are afraid. This is the opposite of what Jesus taught. The people that crucified Jesus were the pharisees - the "church goers" of the time. It would be no different now.
I agree with Jenyar - maybe you could find some secular friends, or at least non-judgemental friends. Just a thought. Good luck!
Jenyar said:Just let me or know if there's anything I can do to lessen the pain
Yes. Love the ones you say you love.
Drop the pretense, and don't seek to be friends with someone because you need to indulge your sense of magnanimity.
Think what you want. I said: if you don't want it from me, ask someone else. But ask.water said:Yes. Love the ones you say you love.
Drop the pretense, and don't seek to be friends with someone because you need to indulge your sense of magnanimity.
water said:Drop the pretense, and don't seek to be friends with someone because you need to indulge your sense of magnanimity.
Why do you oppose another's attempt to make you fit their version of right, but do the same toward others?
water said:Drop the pretense, and don't seek to be friends with someone because you need to indulge your sense of magnanimity.
Raphael said:Why do you oppose another's attempt to make you fit their version of right, but do the same toward others?
Force of habit.
This is the fool's paradise for old hands at flagrant hypocrisy, the ad hoc double standard; do what I say, not what I do.
It is one of the big attractions of online assertion, the convenience of nothing to answer for and nobody to answer to, except of course for that which you choose to reply to, with whatever style of disingenuity to match.
If an argument is not quite to the liking, off then to find a better one to suit the predilection, and perhaps another identity.
Poor sport, all in all, and a perilous short cut to extreme delusion.
Respect?
Terrified, absolutely terrified to have to meet with anybody here face to face.
--- RH.
water said:And it does. They act to extinguish me. This hurts.
Just for once, just to make a change, why not at least pretend to believe what you profess to believe?
Ven. Robina Courtin makes some points just for you here: Developing a good heart,
http://www.archive.org/details/Tse_Chen_Ling_Portland_Robina_Courtin_Good_Heart_20050611
Did you hear what she says about karma?
It is your own interpretation that hurts, the shit in your mind, the way you choose to perceive your experience, the circumstance you bring about for youself to begin with and then what you make of it, the result of your own karmic conditioning.
--- Ron.
perplexity said:
Force of habit.
This is the fool's paradise for old hands at flagrant hypocrisy, the ad hoc double standard; do what I say, not what I do.
It is one of the big attractions of online assertion, the convenience of nothing to answer for and nobody to answer to, except of course for that which you choose to reply to, with whatever style of disingenuity to match.
If an argument is not quite to the liking, off then to find a better one to suit the predilection, and perhaps another identity.
Poor sport, all in all, and a perilous short cut to extreme delusion.
Respect?
Terrified, absolutely terrified to have to meet with anybody here face to face.
--- RH.
Speak for yourself.
perplexity said:Just for once, just to make a change, why not at least pretend to believe what you profess to believe?
Ven. Robina Courtin makes some points just for you here: Developing a good heart,
http://www.archive.org/details/Tse_Chen_Ling_Portland_Robina_Courtin_Good_Heart_20050611
Did you hear what she says about karma?
It is your own interpretation that hurts, the shit in your mind, the way you choose to perceive your experience, the circumstance you bring about for youself to begin with and then what you make of it, the result of your own karmic conditioning.
Oh, surely so!
And all phenomena are inherently empty and each person is responsible for how they feel!
Were it not for the small fact that as a non-Buddha, I can't heed that 24/7.
perplexity said:Just for once, just to make a change, why not at least pretend to believe what you profess to believe?
I never professed to believe that.
I bring it up as an argument, a possible explanation.
But there are very few things I profess to believe.
water said:I never professed to believe that.
I bring it up as an argument, a possible explanation.
But there are very few things I profess to believe.
You're focusing on the wrong part of the question.
I could have as well asked "What is your stance on karma? Do you think your actions matter?"
If not, what was that about "toxic karma" then?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=31077&hl=&view=findpost&p=432953
What sort of hypocrisy do you call that?
--- Ron.
Last edited:
water said:Speak for yourself.
Nobody has yet accused me of hypocrisy.
How many accuse you?
Should we conduct a survey, a poll perhaps?
--- Ron.
perplexity said:Nobody has yet accused me of hypocrisy.
How many people do you let close enough to get to know you?
A handful in many many years.
If they knew what I knew, things would be different for you.
water said:How many people do you let close enough to get to know you?
A handful in many many years.
If they knew what I knew, things would be different for you.
I have been kissed, how about you?
How different would it be for you if they knew what I know?
They steer clear of me because I speak my mind, not because I close it. You of all people ought to know that.
You were an exception because you dared to be; it was not at all to do with my letting; the policy was no different for anybody else.
--- Ron.
water said:Oh, surely so!
And all phenomena are inherently empty and each person is responsible for how they feel!
Were it not for the small fact that as a non-Buddha, I can't heed that 24/7.
Please forgive.
I must confess to a lack of awareness there, of failing to appreciate that your urge to blame and curse all persists full on for 24/7 but upon reflection it may well be safer to take take your word for that.
For some of us it is sufficient to watch for the warning signs in order to associate the consideration as need be.
Please believe it, in terms of blame potential you get off lightly with an occasional go fuck yourself.
-- Ron.
charles cure said:here's something i've always wondered about:
if you are a christian, and you are friends with someone who isn't a christian, how can you claim to have respect for their beliefs?
It seems a shame to have hijacked the thread with yet another vein of romantic fiction but it does kind of relate.
If somebody asks me what I believe, then I want to know up front how I am supposed to know what I believe, what the test is for belief, and that is an honest response, not artificially contrived.
I have tried this successfully even with the Jehovah's Witnesses: "Show me your Hell and then perhaps we begin to agree, with that much in common ... maybe I do believe ... maybe not."
The trick of it is in the respect. However confused or absurd by my own intellectual standard their gobbledygook means something to them and the challenge is then for me to make more sense of it for them, not for me.
Try it some time. Respect. It really does work.
I have chatted at length online with Jenyar for instance , and found a good deal to agree upon in religious terms, one way or another.
It is quite remarkable then to witness the protracted diferences with water.
Same Jenyar, presumably. Different approaches. Different intentions. Different karma.
Peace be with you.
---- Ron.
spelling revised
Last edited:
Raphael said:Why do you oppose another's attempt to make you fit their version of right, but do the same toward others?
If a person attempts to rob you or otherwise harm you, do you think you would be denying the other person their rights if you defended yourself?
perplexity said:However confused or absurd by my own intellectual standard their gobbledygook means something to them and the challenge is then for me to make more sense of it for them, not for me.
That is a tricky respect then.
water said:If a person attempts to rob you or otherwise harm you, do you think you would be denying the other person their rights if you defended yourself?
It is certainly their right to defend themselves against your accusation.
It is certainly not your right to elect yourself as their prosecutor, judge and jury in absentia.
water said:That is a tricky respect then.
Depends what you mean by trick, doesn't it?
And the truth of your intention.
The need in the first instance to realise that to some extent at least you live in the same World, with similar experiences to make sense of.
From there on the problem is largely semantic, different words for ideas which overlap.
Speak of Heaven or of reincarnation, the longing is the same, to live on.
By your fruit ye shall be known .... karma affects your eventual condition .... different models, same intuition, ... same hope to make sense of it all.
We had a lot in common and it is still there to find if you really want to find it .
--- Ron.
perplexity said:You're focusing on the wrong part of the question.
I could have as well asked "What is your stance on karma? Do you think your actions matter?"
If not, what was that about "toxic karma" then?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=31077&hl=&view=findpost&p=432953
What sort of hypocrisy do you call that?
--- Ron.
How about an honest reply to that then?
If that is you'd rather not be accused of the hypocrisy of picking and choosing from what you care to answer to or not to answer to, quite the little expert at times on trickyness, willing enough to accuse others of this and that but not so willing to watch out for the trouble you cause to other people with your devious want of fair play and common sense.
You knew well enough that people at E-Sangha were likely to take that seriously, with consequences to anticipated from it, but as if with not a care in the World for that you turn up here soon after to assert what would appear on the face of it to be the opposite.
That is not the way that an honest adult should care to conduct herself.
Friend or foe?
I had warned you not to provoke lest I tear you to shreds but you went right ahead....
To pursue the clinging at all costs or make an effort to recognize it and reduce it,
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows, of toxic karma,...?
--- Ron.
Last edited: