a question of respect.

[perplexity]

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
(Hamlet,Act 2, Scene 2)

Happiness is about the way we see it all, our appreciation, not what anybody else has to say about it.

I am glad that I met you Jenyar.
You have done me good.
All in all the effect for me was good.
I feel that since last year my marriage and my state of mind has improved enormously.
I like to think that this has something to do with intentions, getting back what I tried to put in.
There were some terrible days and bad moments but that is life; I had never expected more.
I am looking forward now to going to Finland for a month and I'd like some day for us all to be there or somewhere else together in friendship.

Can you claim to have respect for my beliefs?

I was never bothered if you did or did not.
Please yourself.
I am content enough to mind my own for myself.

Peace be with you.

---- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

here's something i've always wondered about:

if you are a christian, and you are friends with someone who isn't a christian, how can you claim to have respect for their beliefs?

since being a christian means that you accept christ as your saviour and necessarily hold the view that anyone who does not do this is going to hell, isn't it your duty to try to convince everyone you love and care for to try to accept jesus so that they won't go to hell? isn't it true that if you actually believe in god and jesus, you must be deeply concerned that your friends will go to hell if they don't convert? if that is true, and you attempt to convert them, then how can you possibly maintain any type of respect for their belief? if you don't attempt to convert them, then aren't you doing them a grave and terrible disservice by allowing their foolish beliefs in a false god (or worse yet, no god) to relegate them to the "lake of eternal fire"? so how does that work exactly - do you not really believe that people go to hell for not accepting god and jesus, or do you just not care about your friends and family or fellow man enough to save them from hell? i would actually go so far as to say that if you are a christian and you are not actively trying to convert every single person you meet over to the way of the lord, then you are violating some rules laid out in the bible about loving thy neighbor and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you...etc. so, christians, my question is - if you believe that everyone in the world who doesn't accept your god is going to burn in hell, why don't you do more to help them? in addition, how could you ever claim to have respect for a system of beliefs other than your own if you know that the person labouring under these illusions will be sent to a place of eternal torment?

i've always been curious about that.

I like this question

I am a Muslim and I have friends who follow many different religious beliefs.

I think it is important to understand that religion is a personal choice; regardless of outward pressures and affiliations, no one can force you to believe or disbelieve in a god.

What you believe in is a matter of personal choice; it may be because you are born into it or because at some point in your life you disagreed with previously held beliefs and changed your mind.

However, just as YOUR religion is personal, so is that of your friend.

Your friend should have the freedom, in your presence, to freely proclaim his ideas, his beliefs; you can argue, discuss without trying to convert someone to your belief.

You can accept that someone can have beliefs diametrically opposite yours and still be a decent caring interesting human being with feelings thoughts desires and opinions similar to yours.

Its not a mutually exclusive proposition; a person may be defined by his religious beliefs but it does not been he should be confined by them.

 

[Jenyar]

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
(Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)

One of my personal favourite quotes, from one of my favourite plays (and not because of "to be or not to be", which is actually quite underwhelming compared to the rest of it).

Happiness is about the way we see it all, our appreciation, not what anybody else has to say about it.

I am glad that I met you Jenyar.
I am glad that I met Nejka.
You have both done me good.
All in all the effect for me was good.
I feel that since last year my marriage and my state of mind has improved enormously.
I like to think that this has something to do with intentions, getting back what I tried to put in.
There were some terrible days and bad moments but that is life; I had never expected more.
I am looking forward now to going to Finland for a month and I'd like some day for us all to be there or somewhere else together in friendship.

Same here. I'm looking forward to that day.

Can you claim to have respect for my beliefs?

I was never bothered if you did or did not.
Please yourself.
I am content enough to mind my own for myself.

Though I don't believe in pleasing only myself (), I do respect the truth, no matter where it leads or where it comes from - and from our conversations I think we share many of the same perspectives, if under different headings. It has been an equal honour to be able to share our disagreements.

It's been a pleasure. Take care...

 

[perplexity]

One of my personal favourite quotes, from one of my favourite plays (and not because of "to be or not to be", which is actually quite underwhelming compared to the rest of it).

Jenyar,

once upon a time, many years ago, I knew somebody who killed herself, very soon days after I had discussed that speech with her to explain my understanding of it, that it should not be read as to be or not to be, this matters; it should rather be read as a quip, like "to be or not to be, what does it matter?" with a sarcastic inflection on "a sea of troubles, by opposing end them?" Readers fail to notice the question mark.

Anyway, in terms of respect the event has haunted me ever since, "Must give us pause: there's the respect that makes calamity of so long life", so to speak.

Considerations of "respect" habitually occur in terms of not getting or giving enough of it, but one may just as bestow too much of it.

"Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,"

In a personal message to me a while back you put a question:

"... can you tell me what I did to ..... that was so terrible. And I don't mean necessarily what ..... thinks I did wrong, but what I *actually* did wrong to provoke this awful treatment."

I neglected then to say this but I shall now, woken up at the crack of dawn today with my humble opinion of it terrifyingly clear on the mind:

You did not let her have her way. You did not give her what she wanted.

Such may be a tricky business with a woman, with the need to know what she wants but short of her actual request, but never mind; the sin remains, unforgiven.

Beware then please not to confuse the simple truth of this with any extravagant religious or moral complication. We all have our wants and needs, and on a daily basic they do have this sneaky tendency to overwhelm what we'd thought were the noblest of intentions.

With best wishes,

Ron.

 

[perplexity]

I think it is important to understand that religion is a personal choice; regardless of outward pressures and affiliations, no one can force you to believe or disbelieve in a god.

What you believe in is a matter of personal choice; it may be because you are born into it or because at some point in your life you disagreed with previously held beliefs and changed your mind.

However, just as YOUR religion is personal, so is that of your friend.

I like your reply, samcdkey, and your replies elsewhere, blessings of kindness, maturity and good sense.

It is so obvious really, the way we get stuck with our lot , like it or not. While some of us are entitled to be more concerned with religion than others, what a vain conceit it would be to assume to have conducted an exhaustive survey of every option as if to discern an absolute truth of any one of them, exclusive of the rest, what a nonsense to go to war in the name of a belief, as if there were not already enough in life to have to fight for.

--- Ron.

 

[Jenyar]

Beware then please not to confuse the simple truth of this with any extravagant religious or moral complication. We all have our wants and needs, and on a daily basic they do have this sneaky tendency to overwhelm what we'd thought were the noblest of intentions.

Don't fret - I see no need. The answer has crystallized out of the religious and moral complications. The suppression of wants and needs in order not to overwhelm may have the same effect.

 

[perplexity]

.... The suppression of wants and needs in order not to overwhelm may have the same effect.

Yes, that did and does happen, when the deliberate not wanting hurts more than the wanting.

And I do fret. There is something doubly sad about a needless misfortune, conjured up for dramatic effect, as if to appease a peevish, bored and barren futility.

--- Ron.

 

[Jenyar]

And I do fret. There is something doubly sad about a needless misfortune, conjured up for dramatic effect, as if to appease a peevish, bored and barren futility.

Well, then at least don't worry that I want to contribute to such a needless misfortune. It is already characterized by melodrama, and I have no wish to compound it.

Remember how Hamlet's hesitant futility was outlived (and posthumously overturned) by the loyal friendship of Horatio.

If thou didst ever hold me in thy heart
Absent thee from felicity awhile,
And in this harsh world draw thy breath in pain,
To tell my story.
(Hamlet, Act 5, Scene 2)​

 

[perplexity]

O, I die, Horatio;
The potent poison quite o'er-crows my spirit:

--- Ron.