a question about the Tawhid

[everneo]

Anyways, I think it is only fair that if you continue doing this, from now on, you will be adressed as "Whirling Dervishes", that whirl and twirl. (thx leo.)

Before God, we all are less worthy than those whirl and twirl in divine ecstacy. I don't know of any sufi saints in indian sub-continent who were whirling and twirling. BTW, if one thinks like a macho before God, He might teach a lesson making the macho whine and moan that is worse than whirl and twirl.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce, DOOMS sounder like our old friend Vienna or Vincent2Uk, they had a problem of not understanding other's posts and points and keep repeathing themself again and again and asking samething agian and again, even after some one or multiple people explained them so many times but they totally ignore their posts or ignore what has been written if it didn' suit their agenda, it is not the TRUTH..lol. Looks like a same problem with Doomy here.

lol. Hey, they are on a mission. And when you are on a mission you concentrate on the target. You don't let facts and logic dissuade you from it.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The arabic "Laa Illaha Illa Llah" could be translated in english as "There is no God but Allah". Is there any significant difference? Our sufi's argument that 'There is no God. Only Allah" has something to do with interpretation rather than translation. It is his view, not based on just translation/less knowledge in arabic. I personally disagree with his view that there is no God at all, ofcourse.

My point is if you want to interpret you do that based on the original (Arabic) text. Don't you agree ..?

:m:

 

[path]

The Mu'tazilah do suit my purpose actually (surprise!) but again if you do not understand basic christianity history of Europe, I don't think you can manage this. And I am getting tired of spelling things out to you.

This doesn't even deserve comment.

As I told you before. You have let me down as a debating partner. You let yourself go because a couple of kids, who happen to be from some Muslim country are misbehaving in the country you emigrated to. You have let that take over.

Check again Bruce I quickly covered several countries and for the most they weren't isolated incidents but more apparently chronic issues (especially an inordinantly high incidence of rape by muslim immigrants in France, Denmark, and Sweden). The result I believe of the practice of using outwardly imposed morality, which islam is so fond of, rather than teaching individuals to be inwardly moral and relying on the majority of them to be so, regardless of whether you are facing a woman in a bikini or a burkha.

How cute...

impressive

No.. no you may read it. That's no problem. The thing that worries me though, is you capability to understand it.

Wow

It is always good to release those bad vibes. But remember... Breath in...Breath out...

Oh I forgot you see yourself as humble and not arrogent.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Before God, we all are less worthy than those whirl and twirl in divine ecstacy.

Did He tell you that?

I don't know of any sufi saints in indian sub-continent who were whirling and twirling.

I have never met a Mullah.

BTW, if one thinks like a macho before God, He might teach a lesson making the macho whine and moan that is worse than whirl and twirl.

Who has ever said anything about macho behaviour? Is that the only alternative for whirling and twirling??

:m:

 

[everneo]

Did He tell you that?

He made me to realize that.

I have never met a Mullah.

Lot of them are there. They have quran on one hand and AK-47 on the other. Call the sufi-saints mullahs in indian sub-continent, especially near the shrines, and see what happens.

Who has ever said anything about macho behaviour? Is that the only alternative for whirling and twirling??

You are not even aware of your machoism.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He made me to realize that.

I can't wait for the Book.

Lot of them are there. They have quran on one hand and AK-47 on the other. Call the sufi-saints mullahs in indian sub-continent, especially near the shrines, and see what happens.

Again, I never met a Mullah.

You are not even aware of your machoism.

I'll play along.. Who said I was the only alternative for whirling and twirling? Who said I view myself as a model to be followed?

:m:

 

[everneo]

I can't wait for the Book.

That is from faithful & investigating life, not from a book.

Again, I never met a Mullah.

Well, look into the mirror, then.

I'll play along.. Who said I was the only alternative for whirling and twirling? Who said I view myself as a model to be followed?

Your contemptuous remarks on an extreme form of pure devotion shows on what mould your faith was cast.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That is from faithful & investigating life, not from a book.

You misunderstood me. I meant I can't wait for the book you are about to write. (a joke)

Well, look into the mirror, then.

. et tu, everneo?

Your contemptuous remarks on an extreme form of pure devotion shows on what mould your faith was cast.

That is not the answer to my response. What, clouldn't come with anything better so you decided to take me on, eh?

Read better. I said I would call him that if he didn't stop calling me with a nickname that is derived from a totally alien concept to me.

:m:

 

[everneo]

You misunderstood me. I meant I can't wait for the book you are about to write. (a joke)

I know. Writing a book would not help.

. et tu, everneo?

sorry about that. but your stubbornly repeating the same sentence again and again reminded me of a mullah.

That is not the answer to my response. What, clouldn't come with anything better so you decided to take me on, eh?

It was an observation, nothing personal against you.

Read better. I said I would call him that if he didn't stop calling me with a nickname that is derived from a totally alien concept to me.

See, you think to counter the term 'mullahism' with the term 'whirling and twirling' in a name calling spree.

Since you said 'mullah' is alien to you, i would give you some clue. Earlier mullahs, like the famous Mullah Nazrudeen, had some respect in Afghan-Pak-India-Bangladesh region (may be in Turkey and central Asia too) for their wisdom. But as of now, most of the mullahs especially in Afghan-Pak-Bangladesh have Mullah Omar (Taliban) as their role model, thanks to wahabism. They are known for their intolerance and fondness for violence.

Skywalker can explain to you better how his country was screwed up by them.

 

[Doomdayx]

I have allready posted that I used the word "God" so that I dont alienate any non-muslim's posts that I answer to. When I quote the Koran however I always use Allah...Alotta people on these boards think there is a difference between "Allah" and what they call "God" I have since gone to saying Creator recently (cheack my posts)

i do not think your understanding will let you see how ridiculous this is. are you calling "allah" as "idol" when you are talking to some "idol worshippers"?
boy, it is not a matter of naming. you are not intended to learn and see the difference, whicjh is a mullah behavior.
if you feel you can equate allah to a god, then you can equate allah to anything else as well. but allah is "one" and is matchless! ever understand?
as to creator, creating is only one of the attributes of allah. do learn what allah is, first.

 

[Doomdayx]

Doom,
If you are Muslim the when you go to Juma is it inm Arabic or English?

so they who do not understand arabic, listen to a preach without understanding. this is a result of mullah understanding and you defend it without thinking what could be better and why and how.

 

[Doomdayx]

I already explained why. I also refer you to Skywalker's comment.

And here is more.

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

114.001
YUSUFALI: Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
PICKTHAL: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men,

114.002
YUSUFALI: The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
PICKTHAL: The King of mankind,
SHAKIR: The King of men,

114.003
YUSUFALI: The god (or judge) of Mankind,-
PICKTHAL: The god of mankind,
SHAKIR: The god of men,

114.004
YUSUFALI: From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
PICKTHAL: From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,
SHAKIR: From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking (Shaitan),

114.005
YUSUFALI: (The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
PICKTHAL: Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
SHAKIR: Who whispers into the hearts of men,

114.006
YUSUFALI: Among Jinns and among men.
PICKTHAL: Of the jinn and of mankind.
SHAKIR: From among the jinn and the men.

"Ilaah" (not the same word as "Allah") means God.


:m:

well, it does not say allah is a god, it says "the god of man" that is, what man believes to be god. understand?
it is the same as in your case. you are believing in and turning to a god. it is your god. the god of man.
however, it is still nothing apart from allah because there is nothing apart from the oneness of allah.

 

[Doomdayx]

I allready answered that question.....Whats with the Mullah term?......Have I called you Kahfir?

this is a perfect mullah reaction!
i do not know you or bruce but as far as i see your mentality your thoughts perfectly agrees with mullah thoughts. that is why i call you mullah.

 

[Doomdayx]

Doomdayx, I think you are falling below the standarts you claim. I already said I do not have Mullahs. I might even add that I originate from a country where "sufism" was the standart and is still very much present. And where the term "Mullah" and what it denotes have never had foot on the soil.

Anyways, I think it is only fair that if you continue doing this, from now on, you will be adressed as "Whirling Dervishes", that whirl and twirl. (thx leo.)

another mullah reaction.
i do not know you bruce but as far as i see your immediate personal atacks, accusations, acting on assumptions without knowledge, stubbornness, arrogance, presumptuousness, and more importantly your mentality and thoughts, you are in a very good agreement with mullahs, the materialistic muslims. do you think you reflect any spirituality, harmony or peace around?

He was to recite what Gibril said. After that He commanded it to be committed in letters. That is the authentic message as ordained by Allah. Any translation is a human endeavor and does not pocess the same authenticity.

this is not the point. the book you are reading in arabic is a guide for you in order that you may read (iqra) the creator's laws -which is the quran- that existed and that will exist forever. the quran is not a "hardcover printed book" as you assume.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

sorry about that. but your stubbornly repeating the same sentence again and again reminded me of a mullah.

I was hoping you would see the reason why I posted the thing aout spinning dervishes. Guess it was needed for me to explain it.

It was an observation, nothing personal against you.

But it was for lack of an adequate answer.

See, you think to counter the term 'mullahism' with the term 'whirling and twirling' in a name calling spree.

Good. I am merely to reign in some of Doomdayx' lower tendencies.

Since you said 'mullah' is alien to you, i would give you some clue. Earlier mullahs, like the famous Mullah Nazrudeen, had some respect in Afghan-Pak-India-Bangladesh region (may be in Turkey and central Asia too) for their wisdom. But as of now, most of the mullahs especially in Afghan-Pak-Bangladesh have Mullah Omar (Taliban) as their role model, thanks to wahabism. They are known for their intolerance and fondness for violence.

I had a fairly good idea of it then. But remains the fact that I have no affinition with the term. And thus, Spinning boy has it coming.

Skywalker can explain to you better how his country was screwed up by them.

I'd like to hear that.


:m:

 

[Doomdayx]

Check what the dictionnary says about "Turk": "one who is cruel or tyrannical", In Dutch it says turk also means dumb. This shows that dictionnaries are nothing more that conventions. And the mohameddan convention is issue of a tradition which says that Muslims view Mohammad -peace be upon him- as the christians view Jesus- peace be upon him. That is not true. Mohammad, is but a messenger as were many before him

i did not ask about how others viewed it!
how do **you** translate "mohammedi" as in isawi or mosawi?

Says the one, who equates creation with The Creator.

...
That is the thing. You have failed to provide a valid argumentation for that based on the Qur'an.

allah cannot be equated to anything (no creation, no god).
but i am not going to give you any more lesson from the quran as i see you do not care to understand.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat ... I take the words of Allah as they are and not as -dwerling dervish- Hulusi tells me.

see how many times you are backbiting a man without knowing him, an author who served islam for decades without any condition about his works. you know i wouldn't guess anyone other than narrow minded materialistic muslim mullahs would talk ill of him. you are still in good agreement with them.

 

[Doomdayx]

See path this is what I don´t like about you. You are too eager to believe anything you think suits you.

see bruce this is what people don´t like about you. You are too eager to start **personal attack** on others when you think their thoughts not suits you.
this is a very well known mullah reaction. blaming others, cursing, accusing, to prove their ego right and create a separation between them and others. this is all because they cannot go beyond the material and they assume that they are not before the creator anytime anywhere. because they believe in a separate god who is afar off, who sits on a throne deep in space and they expect that separate god will favor them because of their intolerance and fondness for violence for his cause.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

My point is if you want to interpret you do that based on the original (Arabic) text. Don't you agree ..?

:m:

Everneo, what do you think?

:m:

 

[Doomdayx]

Everneo, what do you think?

:m:

everneo, please say yes, otherwise he is going to lose all his capital.