a question about the Tawhid

How about praying? Praying as in prostrating to Allah and reciting the Qur'an.

About the Lawh. al.Mahfud. Everything is there. So the Injeel is there too even the bible is. Yet it wasn't preserved for us. And that is the difference. The Qur'an is preserved in Arabic.

You - off course - failed to responde to what I posted before. The Qur'an was only not written in Arabic it was sent in Arabic.

:m:
 
Sufi said:
Ahmed Hulusi is the only Islamic author in the world today who since 1963 distributes all his works (more than 30 books, tens of video and audio tapes) for free without compyright and without any material gaining. All of them are availbel on the internet for free for READERS.

This is written in all his books:

As with all our publications, this book has no copyrights reserved. Provided that its original form is not changed in any way and its authors are notified in advance, it can be printed, reproduced, published, translated, and distributed free of charge.
NO REWARD IS DEMANDED IN RETURN FOR THE KNOWLEDGE (ilm) OF ALLAH.


I do no think this will even embarress someone who has lost his sense of respect to others and who keeps throwing slanderings on others over and over again in almost every post even after he is proved wrong.

Give the the guy an A for marketing.

see what happened... I was searching the page from ahmed baki, btw it says something if he is naming the website after himself. And just under the book precepts I found a big link saying: In association with amazon.

Me being curious I followed the link. And look what I found:

$79!!! a piece!!

Maybe I should start taking you money too. I would do that. If I had no integrity and fear of Allah.

:m:
 
Sufi said:
You misunderstood again. Translations are not inaccurate. They arehelpful but may be insufficient.

Which basicaly means they are good if hulusi's spin is added.

Sufi said:
The Qurain is not in Arabic, it is writen in the lawhe makhfuz, in the dimension of universal consciousness, without being restricted to any language.

Ok. In what language did al.arabi read it? was it arabic or pure cousiousness. same goes for Hulusi. Oh, and when reading in pure consiousness do you need to see the book or is not necessary (saves on printing-costs).

Sufi said:
It was READ by all nabis and rasuls at different levels (so it took different names) and they were communicated to people in their language so that people can understand them.

If you answer only one. I want it to be this question:
In what language did Mohammed -peace be upon him- communicate it to you??

Sufi said:
The unique Book that I am talking about, the Koran, will remain safe until eternity even though the Arabic papers are lost. Because it is written within the origin of the Allah's system and order and will remain safe as far as this universal system and order exist.

refer to my previous post.

Sufi said:
This deep spiritual understanding of reality has always been dificult for mullahs to think and comprehend, who adhere to literal words of the book.

First, Mullah is a word that is restricted to the pakistan-Afghanistan-India area. But I take it that if they have not see hulusi's light everyone is Mullah.

Second of all, Get real, you need arabic to understand on your own.

Third, How can you claim better understanding than them if you have never read the Book.

Fourth,

Hulusi.Chief Mullah and understander said:

Besides…

How reliable do you think that the information recounted by people within a dull-witted community can be, in which repeating the words of someone or other is considered enough to be a "person of wisdom (ilm)" and where people lack the ability to reflect (tafaqqur) = deep thinking as they grow up with a mentality that education is to give something word for word?

I again want to express my deepest gratitude for this quote.

Thank you.

And may Allah help you.

:m:
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Ok. In what language did al.arabi read it? was it arabic or pure cousiousness. same goes for Hulusi. Oh, and when reading in pure consiousness do you need to see the book or is not necessary (saves on printing-costs).

Pure consciousness. In time you will be able to understand what that means.

One cannot read the Koran unless reading it from within his consciousness. (This is not of course for mullahs who take it as a book of orders sent by a separate god...)

Btw, you still do not know if I undersand Arabic. You just keep throwing accusations and slanderings based on your prejudice. You would not dare to do that if you believed whichever side you turn, there is the presence (face) of Allah, would you? Question if it is because you imagine Allah as a god separate out there, and therefore you thinkyou can easily be hostile to anyone because they are already separate from Allah in your eyes!
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Give the the guy an A for marketing.

see what happened... I was searching the page from ahmed baki, btw it says something if he is naming the website after himself. And just under the book precepts I found a big link saying: In association with amazon.

Me being curious I followed the link. And look what I found:

$79!!! a piece!!

Maybe I should start taking you money too. I would do that. If I had no integrity and fear of Allah.

:m:

You began confusing a lot of things. You must ask about it to amazon.

Send me your postall adress I will send you all those books for free. :)
 
surenderer said:
Sufi would you agree that certain words dont translate fully into other languages? Even as a Sufi yourself I am curious how you can meditate or contemplate on something which isnt in its original text

1.5 Billion Muslims also say their prayers daily in Arabic....do you think that too is unnecessary?


That's good. I think that you are not going to translate "Allah" into "God" from now on :) That will sure lead to better advancements.


Part of the reason the Koran will remain safe is because it is the most memorized book in the world(in Arabic

Doesn't this sound to you a childish belief when considering the end of the world after billions of years from now? The Koran will remain not in memories, but within the essence of the system and order that we are always subject to. Try to read it, you will see it is forever!

Also remember the Koran was always there to read before it was memorized. Mohammed (pbuh) READ the Koran from the system and order in life. Remember iqra when he was not given any written book! So what was he asked to read?

Essentially Jihad is an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression and persecution.

No it is not in the face of outer oppression and persecution! This is one's ego's desire only. Jihad is misundesrtood. Before completely living it innerly and before reaching full contentment (peace), what you define as jihad is not different from throwing the first stone, and it is not.

So many muslims are thinking they are practicing jihad even if they do not know what is referred to as "Allah" whereas knowing and believing in Allah as is defined in the Koran is the basis of the religion. There cannot be religion or religious practice without it. The practice of the ignorant only satsifies their ego, nothing else. And because of theri illusion of a separate god who watches them from above, they foolisly keep expecting a favor from their imaginal god in return of their practice.


Essentially jihad is an effort not to forget in any case that whichever side you turn there is the presence of ALLAH, nothing else. There cannot be jihad without knowing what Allah is or as fas as one takes Allah as a separate god.

All hostile practices are caused by a belief in an outer separate god.

When what is refferred to as Allah is understood, the problem of hostility will cease to exist, and you will begin to love your enemy. :)
 
All hostile practices are caused by a belief in an outer separate god.

Sorry Sufi but the Koran says that sometimes we gotta fight:


[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know




Doesn't this sound to you a childish belief when considering the end of the world after billions of years from now?


Whats childish? Learining Arabic?? sigh......let me quote the Koran again (interpetation of meaning):

[12.2] Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.

[20.113] And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.


[43.3] Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand



Also remember the Koran was always there to read before it was memorized. Mohammed (pbuh) READ the Koran from the system and order in life.


Sufi Mohammed(pbuh) didnt write the Koran it was given to the Prophet(pbuh) through Gabriel:

Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth,
Createth man from a clot.
Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
Who teacheth by the pen,
Teacheth man that which he knew not. (96:1-5)


But please tell me where in the Koran you get your info from?Also refering back to jihad can you please tell me if you believe in Sunnah?
 
surenderer said:
Sorry Sufi but the Koran says that sometimes we gotta fight:


[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know

One cannot understand the Koran truly unless one considers the conditions at the time when a sign was revealed.

You ougt to feel yourself in the "dislike" part of this verse before feeling sometimes you gotta fight. First dislike figthing for the sake of Allah, considering the above verses I have given.


Whats childish? Learining Arabic?? sigh......let me quote the Koran again (interpetation of meaning):

You said the Koran will remain safe is because it is the most memorized book in the world.

Doesn't this sound to you a childish belief when considering the end of the world after billions of years from now? The Koran will remain not in memories, but within the essence of the system and order that we are always subject to. Try to read it, you will see it is forever!


Sufi Mohammed(pbuh) didnt write the Koran it was given to the Prophet(pbuh) through Gabriel:

Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth,
Createth man from a clot.
Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
Who teacheth by the pen,
Teacheth man that which he knew not. (96:1-5)

Mohammed did not write it. However, he READ it and communicated to people. What do you understand of iqra (read)? What did he read?

But when you believe that the Koran started with its communication in Arabic, then you are saying that it wa written by the prophet. No, the Koran is existent in the essence of the universe forever, even before the world created, and it is READ and COMMUNICATED to people by Rasuls and Nabis.

Only mullahs believe that Koran has a language and is Arabic. Koran is universal, cannot be restricted to one language. It is often mixed with Arabic nationalism. Whereas, the Koran was only communicated in Arabic. Every human being can READ it as far as his capacity allows without needing a paricular language. Because it is written within the origin of the universe and within the origin of every human beings' consciousness.

But please tell me where in the Koran you get your info from?Also refering back to jihad can you please tell me if you believe in Sunnah?

Unless you do not reform your perspective by and upon learning what is referred to as ALLAH as the basic concept of all themes in Islam, you cannot deduce true meanings from the literal Koran verses. Accept ALLAH as defined in the Chapter Of Unity first, then new doors will be opened for you at any verse you read.

Saying I believe or not does not make one a believer or isbeliever. It matters if what is believed is really applied to form a new perspective and consciousness. As long as one lacks the unifying consciousness of RasulAllah, it does not mean anything to say I believe in Sunnah.
 
Only mullahs believe that Koran has a language and is Arabic.


Now unless you are saying that the Koran is mistranslated even in Arabic(which means you arent a muslim) or is wrong (which means you arent a muslim) that statement goes directly against what the Koran states:(interpetation of meaning)



[12.2] Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.



إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ


[13.37] And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector

وَلاَ وَاقٍ


[16.103] And certainly We know that they say: Only a mortal teaches him. The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue.
مُّبِينٌ }
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ لاَ يَهْدِيهِمُ اللّهُ


[20.113] And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.

الْوَعِيدِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَّقُونَ أَوْ يُحْدِثُ لَهُمْ ذِكْرًا


[39.28] An Arabic Quran without any crookedness, that they may guard (against evil).


ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَّجُلًا فِيهِ شُرَكَاء مُتَشَاكِسُونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِّرَجُلٍ هَلْ يَسْتَوِيَانِ مَثَلًا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ بَلْ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

[41.3] A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know:
بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا فَأَعْرَضَ أَكْثَرُهُمْ فَهُمْ لَا


[42.7] And thus have We revealed to you an Arabic Quran, that you may warn the mother city and those around it, and that you may give warning of the day of gathering together wherein is no doubt; a party shall be in the garden and (another) party in the burning fire.

وَلَوْ شَاء اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَهُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَكِن يُدْخِلُ مَن يَشَاء فِي رَحْمَتِهِ وَالظَّالِمُونَ مَا لَهُم مِّن


[43.3] Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand
إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

[46.12] And before it the Book of Musa was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good.

ظَلَمُوا وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُحْسِنِينَ}
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ثُمَّ اسْتَقَامُوا فَلَا



etc...........Notice I have provided Arabic also so you can read it in the language it was revealed and see that this is the wish of our Creator

Arabic is the most efficient language in the world, especially when it
comes to the precise statement of laws. Since the Quran is a Statute
Book, it was crucial that such laws must be clearly stated. God chose
Arabic for His Final Testament because of the obvious reason that it
is the most suitable language for that purpose. Arabic is unique in
its efficiency and accuracy. For example, the word "they" in English
does not tell you if "they" are males or females. In Arabic there is a
"they" for the males, "HUM," and a "they" for the females, "HUNNA."
For two females, instead of "these" or "those" there is "HAATAAN"
and for the two males "HAATHAN." This feature does not exist in
any other language in the world. (that I know of) :D




Saying I believe or not does not make one a believer or isbeliever. It matters if what is believed is really applied to form a new perspective and consciousness. As long as one lacks the unifying consciousness of RasulAllah, it does not mean anything to say I believe in Sunnah


Well I do agree that saying "I believe" isnt enough (lip service) and one has to change their lifestyle......Let me ask you again.....do you believe in Sunnah( nice try but stop avoiding the question ;) )




Koran is universal, cannot be restricted to one language. It is often mixed with Arabic nationalism. Whereas, the Koran was only communicated in Arabic. Every human being can READ it as far as his capacity allows without needing a paricular language.


Completely ridicuous........what should they do Sufi sleep with the Koran under their pillow? how can one study it without reading it? I have shown you (see above) how words have different meanings and interpetations in different languages. Why bother with that? How could a new Muslim know the difference? Why not cut out the "middle man"? Learn the Arabic and decide for yourself!!
 
Well I do agree that saying "I believe" isnt enough (lip service) and one has to change their lifestyle......Let me ask you again.....do you believe in Sunnah( nice try but stop avoiding the question )

Accept any answer that you would like to :)

A lot of confusion and misundersandings in your reply... and you seem to tend to turn a blind eye to the verses about the presence of Allah in whichever side you turn in order to prove your fighting desire right.

Read this again:

Mohammed did not write the Koran. However, he READ it (iqra) and communicated to people. What do you understand of iqra (read)? What did he read?

If you believe that the Koran started with its communication in Arabic, then you are saying that it was written by the prophet. No, the Koran is existent in the essence of the universe forever, even before the world created, and will last until doomsday, it was READ and COMMUNICATED to people by Rasuls and Nabis.


As far as I see, when you say the Koran, you are referring to the printed book which you have in your bookcase, while I refer it to the "meanings" the original book behind the words, the ummul kitaab.

Let me ask you one question. According to your insertions, there was no Koran before it was communicated by RasulAllah! Consider now the system and order, and the universal laws that the Koran tells us to be operating in life and we are all subject to.

Do you think that the sytem of Allah (sunnatAllah) and the laws or whatever you call them, which we are informed that operates in life and we are all subject to, did not exist before the revelation of the Koran to RasulAllah?

Think for yourself now. Did the laws the Koran informs us exist befroe its communication in Arabic? And what was Mohammed (pbuh) asked to READ in the beginning?
 
Also consider the verse:

We shall show them Our signs upon the horizons and in themselves, until it is clear to them that Alah is the real. (41:53)
 
Sufi said:
Also consider the verse:

We shall show them Our signs upon the horizons and in themselves, until it is clear to them that Alah is the real. (41:53)




[41.52] Say: Tell me if it is from Allah; then you disbelieve in it, who is in greater error than he who is in a prolonged opposition?
[41.53] We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?
[41.54] Now surely they are in doubt as to the meeting of their Lord; now surely He encompasses all things.



Even though its in English you should quote the whole thing properly Sufi.....and in reading the whole context(the ayats before and after) anyone can see what it means(it's refering to disbelievers)
 
Sufi said:
And in your soulds --what, do you not see? (51:21)




[51.20] And in the earth there are signs for those who are sure,
[51.21] And in your own souls (too); will you not then see?
[51.22] And in the heaven is your sustenance and what you are threatened with.



Either we are having English translation differences (ironic isnt it) or you are changing surah's .....but knowing Arabic I know that your translations are wrong....but you are quoting what the Creator has said are signs to the disbelievers
 
Sufi said:
14:4: Allah sent no Rasul save with the tongue of his people...






14.4] And We did not send any apostle but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise




Whats with the misquotes?....why not quote the whole ayat? because it proves you wrong? That is deceitful :bugeye: How can you get your point across to anyone like that?
 
Sufi said:
Pure consciousness. In time you will be able to understand what that means.

One cannot read the Koran unless reading it from within his consciousness. (This is not of course for mullahs who take it as a book of orders sent by a separate god...)

Oke when reading the Qur'an with pure consciousness did it have to be in the same room? did they need to see it? or did they learn it(s words) from heart?

Sufi said:
Btw, you still do not know if I undersand Arabic.

Quite fleeing, do you understand or not?

Sufi said:
You just keep throwing accusations and slanderings based on your prejudice.

NO I am giving arguments. Maybe you cannot encompass them, but they are present. Open the eyes !

Sufi said:
You would not dare to do that if you believed whichever side you turn, there is the presence (face) of Allah, would you? Question if it is because you imagine Allah as a god separate out there, and therefore you thinkyou can easily be hostile to anyone because they are already separate from Allah in your eyes!

Very cute. So those who do not believe you are not moral since they think they can evade Allah. No, that is not the way it works. Allah knows everything. I will be judged for every letter I write and the intention behind it.

But If I would believe in your fantasy. I would do whathever I'd wish. I would lie like Hulusi does, and think I would get away with it.

:m:
 
oops I forgot:

Hulusi.mohameddan mullah said:


Besides…

How reliable do you think that the information recounted by people within a dull-witted community can be, in which repeating the words of someone or other is considered enough to be a "person of wisdom (ilm)" and where people lack the ability to reflect (tafaqqur) = deep thinking as they grow up with a mentality that education is to give something word for word?

:m:
 
Last edited:
surenderer said:
14.4] And We did not send any apostle but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise

Whats with the misquotes?....why not quote the whole ayat? because it proves you wrong? That is deceitful :bugeye: How can you get your point across to anyone like that?

surrenderer, i cannot see any difference in meaning between your and sufi's translations. you may not agree on others' way of quoting, but he clearly points out where you can find the lessons of the quran that works against your argument. you have looked them up and got the point!
he proves right that arabic is the language of the prophet's people rather than being chosen by a god as a language for himself. arabic is the language of the people that mohammed *peace be upon him* communicated it to us. let us be logical! what else would you expect? have you seen any lesson in the quran that says god has chosen arabic for himself?
do not misunderstand! i am not saying knowing arabic is bad. i am saying limiting the religion of peace sent by allah to entire humankind into one language is a mistaken point. anyone can read the quran whether they know arabic or not particularly.
you seem you are probably confusing reading the quran, with its quality of being zhikr in original words.

so reading the lessons in the quran, what is your reply to sufi's questions?
Sufi said:
]Do you think that the sytem of Allah (sunnatAllah) and the laws or whatever you call them, which we are informed that operates in life and we are all subject to, did not exist before the revelation of the Koran to RasulAllah?

Did the laws the Koran informs us exist befroe its communication in Arabic? And what was Mohammed (pbuh) asked to READ in the beginning?
 
Sufi said:
You began confusing a lot of things. You must ask about it to amazon.

Send me your postall adress I will send you all those books for free. :)

It was Ahmed Baki who sent me there. :D

:m:
 
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