a question about the Tawhid

i do not think your understanding will let you see how ridiculous this is. are you calling "allah" as "idol" when you are talking to some "idol worshippers"?
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Idol worshippers? Where are you getting that from? Christians are "People of the Book" if you arent associating anything with God then my posts havent been wrong:


[2.163] And your God is one God! there is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful


[2.255] Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.


3.2] Allah, (there is) no god but He, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all things subsist


if you feel you can equate allah to a god, then you can equate allah to anything else as well.
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Dang what an awful charge to make against another Muslim :( I have again showed you how the Koran (or interpetation of) has proven you wrong
 
Doomdayx said:
so they who do not understand arabic, listen to a preach without understanding. this is a result of mullah understanding and you defend it without thinking what could be better and why and how.
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No but they can learn.........The mosque I attend actually as an Iman who does the speech in Arabic then someone comes along after him and says it in English....here let me you out:

http://www.i-cias.com/babel/arabic/01.htm
 
Bruce Wayne said:
But it was for lack of an adequate answer.
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No that was the answer. When people sink into deep devotion they behave oddly. You must be knowing some of the shahaba crying, weeping and fainting all night along while praying.
 
Doomdayx said:
this is a perfect mullah reaction! :D
i do not know you or bruce but as far as i see your mentality your thoughts perfectly agrees with mullah thoughts. that is why i call you mullah.
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Again with the namecalling huh? I thought that attacking other Muslims was a sin? Or better yet let me quote you for a second:


you know, backbiting is stricly forbidden in islam and it is said to be equal to the act of eating the raw flesh of your deceased brother. eating the raw flesh of your dead brother while fasting will leave you with nothing but with a wasted hunger only.
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I wont resort to name calling with you but you do know what the Creator said about Hypocrites dont you?(interpetation of meaning):


The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them; (The Noble Quran, 4:145)"



Be careful Dude ;)
 
Bruce Wayne said:
everneo said:
The arabic "Laa Illaha Illa Llah" could be translated in english as "There is no God but Allah". Is there any significant difference? Our sufi's argument that 'There is no God. Only Allah" has something to do with interpretation rather than translation. It is his view, not based on just translation/less knowledge in arabic. I personally disagree with his view that there is no God at all, ofcourse.
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My point is if you want to interpret you do that based on the original (Arabic) text. Don't you agree ..?
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I don't know arabic, so i can't go deep into this. But from what you said, "Laa Illaha Illa Llah" translates to "There is no God except Allah".
From translation it appears,to me, to sound like "There is no other God than Allah". So translation does not make any significant difference.

"The Cloud is White today" is a simple and clear statment. If someone trasnlates it as "There is no rainy cloud today" then for all practical purpose it does not make any difference. You cannot blame him for distortion though there is a translation difference.

My point is translation cannot distort the meaning if done by those who understand perfectly what is intended in the original text. These translators should be well versed in both the languages.
If any dispute/confusion arises out of translation then the original text is to be taken as the authentic one.

But sufi's argument is about interpreting the original arabic phrase itself not translated text, though i may not agree with him completely. I partially agree with him that there is no sky-God seperately. If God is omnipresent (from the ayat Doomdayx quoted) then He must be both transcendental & immanent. We can neither equate creation with Him nor exclude creation from Him as well. His own veil divides Him and us and He knows when to remove this veil.
 
surrenderer, Brother. I think that it is not a problem if the Jumu'a is givien in the local language. It is a practical matter. It is al about the message. If the man that delivers it is trustworthy and doesn't believe in farytales and that those tales are in the Qur'an Then He can give it in a language other than Arabic.

:m:
 
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Bruce Wayne said:
surrender, Brother. I think that it is not a problem if the Jumu'a is givien in the local language. It is a practical matter. It is al about the message. If the man that delivers it is trustworthy and doesn't believe in farytales and that those tales are in the Qur'an Then He can give it in Arabic.

:m:
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'as-salâmu calaykum


Ya thats actually how I learned because in the begining of course I didnt know any Arabic but I took classes etc....till I began to understand


maca salâma
 
everneo said:
I don't know arabic, so i can't go deep into this. But from what you said, "Laa Illaha Illa Llah" translates to "There is no God except Allah".
From translation it appears,to me, to sound like "There is no other God than Allah". So translation does not make any significant difference.

"The Cloud is White today" is a simple and clear statment. If someone trasnlates it as "There is no rainy cloud today" then for all practical purpose it does not make any difference. You cannot blame him for distortion though there is a translation difference.

My point is translation cannot distort the meaning if done by those who understand perfectly what is intended in the original text. These translators should be well versed in both the languages.
If any dispute/confusion arises out of translation then the original text is to be taken as the authentic one.
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Thank you for an anser to the point.

everneo said:
But sufi's argument is about interpreting the original arabic phrase itself not translated text, though i may not agree with him completely. I partially agree with him that there is no sky-God seperately. If God is omnipresent (from the ayat Doomdayx quoted) then He must be both transcendental & immanent. We can neither equate creation with Him nor exclude creation from Him as well. His own veil divides Him and us and He knows when to remove this veil.
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As I told Doomdayx before: Allah is beyond/Above time and space. Allah is not sitting on a chair in heaven (like man), subhaanah, like Sufi and doomdayx claim we say (in a manner that would make Goering jealous). Allah is not within the Heavens either, which are his creation.

The thing is we cannot draw a picture of Allah. And to Muslims it is as blasphemous to say that Allah sitting on a chair (as a man does, phisically) as it is to say that He is a wholeness we all are part of.

I have given a link earlier (in another thread). Here it is again:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/basic_whereisgod.htm#conc

:m:
 
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Bruce Wayne said:
Reading Arabic is not reading the Qur'an since more things are written down in Arabic than the Qur'an. Yet, one gets can better contemplate the Qur'an if he understands the language ALLAH Chose for the Qur'an.


TA-HA (TA-HA)

020.113
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
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funny, but the only thing I think of when I read those words, is that allah is an arabic god, not The Universal Creator God, but am imitation, like vanilla Coke. most of the quran is hard to understand, it goes back & forth on various topics, (example: liking jews & christians, then lambasting them), then it seems like the book was put in an arbitrary order, by length, not by actual date of pronouncement, it would make more sense to me, to have a chronological quran, that way it would unfold like it was recited, not in an arbitrary way as those after Mohammad did.

when God speaks, He should be able to be understood in any language, by any people
 
Randolfo said:
funny, but the only thing I think of when I read those words, is that allah is an arabic god, not The Universal Creator God, but am imitation, like vanilla Coke. most of the quran is hard to understand, it goes back & forth on various topics, (example: liking jews & christians, then lambasting them), then it seems like the book was put in an arbitrary order, by length, not by actual date of pronouncement, it would make more sense to me, to have a chronological quran, that way it would unfold like it was recited, not in an arbitrary way as those after Mohammad did.

when God speaks, He should be able to be understood in any language, by any people
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Why is this very different than the Bible being "revealed" in Hebrew with a bit of Aramaic in the "Old Testament", and the New Testament being "revealed" in Greek? Are Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek the languages of a regional deity?

As for the Qur'an being hard to understand, "Peter" said that some of what "Paul" said was difficult to understand. And the Protestant Bible (I won't get into Catholic, Ethiopic, Coptic versions) is not in complete chronological order, is it? What is Ezra doing before Ezekiel? And are the gospel stories themselves in complete chronological order? And as for inconsistencies, I'd venture to guess if someone were to compile an "alleged discrepancies of the Qur'an", it would be a substantially smaller volume than one could write for the Bible.

According to this website, http://members.tripod.com/~rosemck1/bible.html, the chronological events in the Bible are VERY out of order.

Just my opinion. :)
 
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