a non-physical thing

[Lori_7]

Interestingly teasing answer, but I really meant experiences in general.
For example, how do you distinguish between real memories and dream memories or false memories?
If you believe that some dreams come from outside yourself (do you?) how do you distinguish those dreams from ordinary dreams?

i'm sure some people are going to jump all over this but i really don't try to. in a lot of ways, trying to figure everything out, and interpret these things is what can drive me nuts if i let it. my experiences have been so varied but it all comes together to have meaning. if i try to force the meaning, i find that it is counterproductive.

in regards to dreams, i've had recurring ones, with a recurring theme anyway, and i've had very lucid ones on a few occasions. i never understand the dream when i have it. but in regards to most of them i remember (which are relatively few), when i look back on them after i've had certain experiences, they seem to be telling.

there are times when it's like a 1000 coincedences have profound meaning, and this is over time and general and all inclusive to other more specific experiences. there have been specific times when i've actually received a specific message seemingly telepathically, like an impression, and other specific times when it's very concise and verbal, but also in a telepathic way. there are other specific times when much more trippy shit has gone down, like transcendental writing, physical manifestation of something seemingly inhabiting my body, being aware of spirits around me, either by some knowledge that i have no explanation for, or by experiencing a physical sensation in regards to them (like an interaction), or one very trippy time when i actually had physical objects in front of me morph, with no other explanation whatsoever.

all of these things i've been through have meaning, and in relation to one another. not only that but the experiences themselves and the meaning behind them, have done a great work in me. developed me.

 

[Lori_7]

You believed what some of those beings "said" & made assumptions about another(s?)
Those experiences do not show there is an omniscient omnipotent god. Gods have been the easy answer for so many things humans did not understand yet later the correct answer was found.

they do for me stranger. that's what all of these seemingly weird things have culmonated in meaning for me. now i'm not defining god, nor do i think i ever could. but there is an intelligence behind what has happened to me that is indicative of what i would call god.

 

[Lori_7]

If all is one, then how can anything be seperate from anything else? Then how can here be non-physical? Is air non-physical? Thoughts? Energy? Without form...there is no definition thus it can't even be.

that is a great question!! ARE thoughts non-physical?

i also think that sock puppets are a great use for condoms!

 

[lightgigantic]

Sure it matters. One is real and can be found out.

And lo and behold, a methodology is called upon to find it out
Here you go....

here in hunan province we pay .35 yuan for one egg. thats a bit less than 4 pennies for one fresh egg.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006042204848

The other is not and all I get from you is worthless evasions, not even semi interesting ones.

Do you really want to try and argue that you didn't apply any methodologies (or more specifically, the author of the piece, since at the moment you are just accepting information on faith .... a big no no amongst atheists it seems)
or are you just being evasive?

At least lori's evasions seem heart felt. You seem totally devoid of faith or heart. I'm just glad you are a theist. It would be embarrassing to have you an atheist.

Because you are so hard hearted its pointless trying to take you down that path at the moment

 

[lightgigantic]

Ah, so god is perfectly real if we just redefine real to make it so?

Actually the first step requires a bit of introspection to see what one is already working with when they approach the topic of "real" (something you seem greatly reluctant to do)

If you have a methodology propose it. It be pretty stupid to expect me to since I'm not the one making the claim.

I introduce the idea here
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2304158&postcount=276

I'll warn you I've already tried an awful lot of most of the standard and esoteric methods, often multiple times, with variations.

much like any other knowable claim, right methodology often requires right theory

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
You believed what some of those beings "said" & made assumptions about another(s?)
Those experiences do not show there is an omniscient omnipotent god. Gods have been the easy answer for so many things humans did not understand yet later the correct answer was found. ”

they do for me stranger. that's what all of these seemingly weird things have culmonated in meaning for me. now i'm not defining god, nor do i think i ever could. but there is an intelligence behind what has happened to me that is indicative of what i would call god.

Do you believe disease is caused by curses & evil spirits?
Do you believe the flu is caused by influence from the stars?
Do you believe disaster is caused by bad stars?
Do you believe Thor causes thunderstorms?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“Originally Posted by Condom-Sock-Puppet
If all is one, then how can anything be seperate from anything else? Then how can here be non-physical? Is air non-physical? Thoughts? Energy? Without form...there is no definition thus it can't even be. ”

that is a great question!! ARE thoughts non-physical?
i also think that sock puppets are a great use for condoms!

Air is physical. Thoughts are physical. Energy is physical.

 

[Oli]

Is a concept or an idea physical?
If you pass on an idea to someone else what is actually exchanged?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

And lo and behold, a methodology is called upon to find it out

Do you really want to try and argue that you didn't apply any methodologies (or more specifically, the author of the piece, since at the moment you are just accepting information on faith .... a big no no amongst atheists it seems)
or are you just being evasive?

Because you are so hard hearted its pointless trying to take you down that path at the moment

-=-

YOU are HARD hearted & have NO methodology.

Actually the first step requires a bit of introspection to see what one is already working with when they approach the topic of "real" (something you seem greatly reluctant to do)

I introduce the idea here
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2304158&postcount=276

much like any other knowable claim, right methodology often requires right theory

Actually, the 1st step is to learn critical reasoning.
You introduce no ideas in that thread.
Right methodology does not require right theory. Right methodology will determine the theory to be false or not credible or unknowable at this time & place or the best credible theory we have. Without the right methodology, 1 cannot know whether a theory is right.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Is a concept or an idea physical?
If you pass on an idea to someone else what is actually exchanged?

Concepts & ideas are not physical or nonphysical. Thoughts which produce them are physical.

 

[Oli]

Thoughts which produce them are physical.

The process of thinking is physical.
Is the actual thought?
If I think of, say, my cat - is the thought/ visualisation itself physical?

Concepts & ideas are not physical or nonphysical.

So what's actually exchanged when you pass a concept on to someone else? How can something be not physical and at the same time not non-physical?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

The process of thinking is performed with thoughts. Thinking is having thoughts. Thinking is a physical process of the brain. When I think of my cat, the visualization is an image produced in my brain & perceived by my brain without any outside stimuli.

Physical or not doesn't apply to concepts. When a concept is spoken of, there is a physical sound. When a concept is written, there is physical material involved. When a concept is thought of, there is a physical process in the brain. The concept tho is simply that. It's not made of anything material yet it's not some nonmaterial thing floating around.

It is simply & solely the concept which is exchanged. Unlike a box, which 1 could say involves exchanging wood & metal.

 

[wynn]

Actually the first step requires a bit of introspection to see what one is already working with when they approach the topic of "real"

Sure ... I don't know if it is just me, or whether this is more general, but introspecting on what one considers "real" can lead to nothing short of schyzophrenia.
Some people who have mental health problems ponder constantly on issues of what is real and what is unreal - without getting anywhere, other than being stuck in mental health institutions.

It is a very serious issue to introspect on what one considers "real" - unless one of course is already so advanced that such introspection does not throw them into the pit of refuting solipsism and other epistemological, ontological and other nightmares.

I suspect many people are aware of this danger to some degree, and this is why they don't venture (much) into pondering normative issues of "real" and "imaginary", and instead tend to go by "common sense", "gut feeling" and such.


Given that the potential introspector has to consider this grim predicament of impending insanity, what do you suggest that they do to avert it?
What do you suggest that they use for giving themself the courage to proceed?
What do you suggest that they put in place in advance to use as a safety net for the case that the introspection indeed leads to debilitating states?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

You can't handle the truth.

 

[wynn]

-=-

You can't handle the truth.

So - what do you propose that someone "who can't handle the truth" do, in order to become able to handle it?

 

[Oli]

Physical or not doesn't apply to concepts. When a concept is spoken of, there is a physical sound. When a concept is written, there is physical material involved. When a concept is thought of, there is a physical process in the brain. The concept tho is simply that. It's not made of anything material yet it's not some nonmaterial thing floating around.

So a concept is "nothing" at all?

It is simply & solely the concept which is exchanged. Unlike a box, which 1 could say involves exchanging wood & metal.

Okay, so there's "physical", "non-physical" and "concept-like".

 

[(Q)]

and...i'll pose you the same question. if you were to find out that i did not in fact have some "conditon", would you continue to deceive yourself?

Simple really. You would be deceiving yourself if you continued to claim that you had conversations with a god when all along it was just a medical condition.

 

[Lori_7]

Simple really. You would be deceiving yourself if you continued to claim that you had conversations with a god when all along it was just a medical condition.

that's not an answer to the question. i said if it were confirmed to you that i do NOT have such a medical condition, would you continue to deceive yourself regarding my "infliction" ?

 

[(Q)]

that's not an answer to the question. i said if it were confirmed to you that i do NOT have such a medical condition, would you continue to deceive yourself regarding my "infliction" ?

We could cross that bridge when we come to it and look for alternative explanations. Have is it been confirmed Lori?

 

[Lori_7]

We could cross that bridge when we come to it and look for alternative explanations. Have is it been confirmed Lori?

i'll tell you what your alternative explanation would be because i already know.

during the time when i was knee deep in these experiences, i had an mri of my head, and an examination by an md. all results were normal. i also spoke with a psychiatrist for about a half hour. a half hour of my life i'll never get back but, i did this to appease my parents, as they were concerned.

he went on for a while about literature he was currently reading, that was not even remotely relevant to anything i was going through...just kind of tooting his own horn. my mom then monopolized a chunk of the time with her rendition of what was happening (she's codependent and talks incessantly). i then told him a thing or two about what was happening with me. these were his findings...

"you have every right to be crazy. your parents have every right to be concerned."

that was worth $180.00, don't you think? lol