a non-physical thing

lightgigantic said:
actually all I have seen from you is an insistence that the answer be in line with your preconceived notions
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Ah, so god is perfectly real if we just redefine real to make it so?

IOW you haven't moved a millimeter in the direction of methodology
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If you have a methodology propose it. It be pretty stupid to expect me to since I'm not the one making the claim.

I'll warn you I've already tried an awful lot of most of the standard and esoteric methods, often multiple times, with variations.
 
But have you tried the methodology of sincerely believing in the existence of the non-physical?
I assure you that, when you have applied this methodology that you will indeed believe in the existence of the non-physical.

And if you don't it's only because you have not applied the methodology properly.

;)
 
Oli said:
Personal experiences remain personal and subjective, not evidence.
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Yet our own experiences are what eventually matters to us the most, do they not?


Or do you choose, for example, your clothes by trying to objectively, with proper evidentiary support, figure out what the best color for a specific clothing item is, while completely disregarding your own personal values and preferences?

Do you choose, as another example, what the most important thing in your life is, by trying to objectively, with proper evidentiary support, figure out what the meaning of life is, while completely disregarding your own personal values and preferences?

"I don't particularly like blue shirts, but objective evidence says that blue is the best color for shirts, therefore I will wear blue shirts."

"I am not particularly fond of evolutionary theory or theories in general, but objective evidence says that evolutionary theory is correct and I will make an effort to believe it and act accordingly, even though I am revulsed by the mere notion of it."

?
 
swarm said:
I'm open minded enough to give you a chance to make good on your claims and curious enough about the world to see what happens.

It is unfortunate that all you offer is empty talk.
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it is unfortunate that you're not open minded enough to give god a chance. it's much easier to look to me and to the world isn't it? experiencing god is a completely introspective experience. it's gained from the inside out. do you think for one moment that the way you follow me around on this forum, making demands of me for something that only you are personally liable for, and finding contention with every little minute detail of everything i say isn't telling? over and over again like a broken record. man, i don't give a flying fuck if you agree with me, or if you believe me, but you seem to think that is of paramount importance. and that is your mistake. what do you even think the odds are, that one person could possibly contend with every single thing that another person expresses in sincerity? your agenda is obvious, and it is your agenda that keeps you from god. that is my opinion. i believe it's law.

seek and you will find. why are you looking at me?

knock and the door will open. whose door are you knocking on swarm?

chasing me around here with your nose up my ass isn't going to get you any evidence of god. but it will satisfy your agenda.
 
swarm said:
Sure it matters. One is real and can be found out. Here you go....

here in hunan province we pay .35 yuan for one egg. thats a bit less than 4 pennies for one fresh egg.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006042204848

The other is not and all I get from you is worthless evasions, not even semi interesting ones.

At least lori's evasions seem heart felt. You seem totally devoid of faith or heart. I'm just glad you are a theist. It would be embarrassing to have you an atheist.
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these are not evasions. i have explained to you how this happened to me. you keep asking for another way, which is false. you keep asking for what is impossible. i can not hand my personal spiritual experiences over to you. as a matter of fact, i can't hand any of my experiences over to you. are you so codependent that you categorize yourself into us and them? yes you are. it has been my experience that this exploration is about you and you alone. it's not something that is meant to be provided by anyone but god, and it's given directly to you. it's meant for you. no one else provides it, and therefore no one else can take it. this is not theoretical. it's not intellectual. and it's not emotional. it's not for the purpose of debate or analysis. the purpose of it is development. the purpose of it is communion, and it's between you and god.
 
swarm said:
I'll warn you I've already tried an awful lot of most of the standard and esoteric methods, often multiple times, with variations.
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i would love some elaboration on this warning.
 
Lori_7 said:
personal experience is indeed evidence to yourself.
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If the brain has a medical condition, it can make the person think and believe they are seeing and hearing things. There are several conditions of the brain that will provide those "personal experiences."

Some people talk to tall rabbits, some talk to Napoleon, and some talk to gods.

For all the evidence that these conditions exist, one cannot simply ignore them in favor of wanting to have had those "personal experiences."
If in fact, it is found that you had such a condition, would you rather live your life ignoring it or would you do something about it?
 
(Q) said:
If the brain has a medical condition, it can make the person think and believe they are seeing and hearing things. There are several conditions of the brain that will provide those "personal experiences."

Some people talk to tall rabbits, some talk to Napoleon, and some talk to gods.

For all the evidence that these conditions exist, one cannot simply ignore them in favor of wanting to have had those "personal experiences."
If in fact, it is found that you had such a condition, would you rather live your life ignoring it or would you do something about it?
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may i point out that for a long time, you've been talking to yourself.

and if my "condition" allows me experiences that result in knowledge that provides meaning, healing, development, and freedom, what do you suggest i "do about it"?
 
Lori_7 said:
and if my "condition" allows me experiences that result in knowledge that provides meaning, healing, development, and freedom, what do you suggest i "do about it"?
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You have obviously made the simple error in not realizing you did all those things yourself, just like the rest of us.

My question was, if you found out it was you all along that did those things and that you had a condition that was making you believe it was something else, wouldn't you want to do something about that?

Or, would you rather go through life deceiving yourself? Simple questions.
 
(Q) said:
You have obviously made the simple error in not realizing you did all those things yourself, just like the rest of us.

My question was, if you found out it was you all along that did those things and that you had a condition that was making you believe it was something else, wouldn't you want to do something about that?
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why would i? i actually do attribute a part of this to me. i initiated it, and it's up to me what to do with what i learn from it.
 
(Q) said:
You have obviously made the simple error in not realizing you did all those things yourself, just like the rest of us.

My question was, if you found out it was you all along that did those things and that you had a condition that was making you believe it was something else, wouldn't you want to do something about that?

Or, would you rather go through life deceiving yourself? Simple questions.
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wait a minute...this is not a simple question. if i found out that i had a condition, and i assume you're referring to some medical condition or mental illness, then how would it be possible to deceive myself?
 
and...i'll pose you the same question. if you were to find out that i did not in fact have some "conditon", would you continue to deceive yourself?
 
Hi Lori,
How do you distinguish which of your experiences come solely from within yourself, and which from outside?
 
Pete said:
Hi Lori,
How can you tell whether your experiences come solely from within yourself, or from outside?
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hi pete,

i can tell because of what it means. and i know that's a simple answer to a very complicated question, but it's the correct answer.
 
Interestingly teasing answer, but I really meant experiences in general.
For example, how do you distinguish between real memories and dream memories or false memories?
If you believe that some dreams come from outside yourself (do you?) how do you distinguish those dreams from ordinary dreams?
 
It is said sometimes that the one thing that many (or even most) people are really sure about, the one thing that they are really sure they know is how reality works, what is real and what is imaginary.

This is also where they tend to be most easy to offend - question someone's sense of reality in some way, and they'll likely be offended.
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Given that you experienced those things, how do you know it's god?
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Lori_7 said:
Some spiritual beings I've experienced have been human. Some made it a point to let me know they were not human. And in regards to god, I certainly can't define it, but it all made sense. It all had meaning. To the tiniest of detail. The things so sorted, so seemingly random came together to have the most profound meaning. And I examined myself. And in myself I found god, and in god I found myself, and I found freedom. Sometimes I feel like I live in a world full of zombies. And sometimes I feel like I live in a world of people who are trapped in cages. And I see the pain on their faces. And sometimes I feel that cage around me. And god has blown my cage open. And I want to blow all of the cages sky high. To bits.
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You believed what some of those beings "said" & made assumptions about another(s?)
Those experiences do not show there is an omniscient omnipotent god. Gods have been the easy answer for so many things humans did not understand yet later the correct answer was found.
 
lightgigantic said:
actually all I have seen from you is an insistence that the answer be in line with your preconceived notions

IOW you haven't moved a millimeter in the direction of methodology
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Actually, all I have seen from you is an insistence that the answer is beyond our comprehension therefore you won't answer.
IOW, you haven't moved a camplexmillimeter in the direction of anything.
You're stuck in quicksand.
 
Sarkus said:
But have you tried the methodology of sincerely believing in the existence of the non-physical?
I assure you that, when you have applied this methodology that you will indeed believe in the existence of the non-physical.

And if you don't it's only because you have not applied the methodology properly.

;)
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
 
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