You mean I'm not really tragically linear?
Stay on topic LG. Tell me about God, the known truth, stuff you're sure of. If you want to refute the thread's title then I'm all ears......er eyes.
A God We Know Nothing About
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
- Start date
You mean I'm not really tragically linear?
Stay on topic LG. Tell me about God, the known truth, stuff you're sure of. If you want to refute the thread's title then I'm all ears......er eyes.
What if I had a photograph?
Do you think that would make a difference?
Probably not.
Jesus told the "rich young ruler" in hell asking for a messenger to be sent to earth to warn his family....
If they don't believe the law and the prophets, they wouldn't believe if one raised from the dead.
No clue for you.
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I'll tell you what Viz. Once LG tells us what he knows for certain about God I would like to know if you agree 100% with him. I think both of you will probably share many of the same known truths re God. In fact all God believers must share common knowledge. So I would like all believers to honestly agree or disagree with LG's known God facts. There should be no disagreement about common knowledge, would you not agree?
I'm done for the nite? I know I'm off to bed.
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You didn't answer my question.
Then why are you posting here, if you see no reason to believe what you are told?
PE, you didn't answer this question either.
And until you answer such questions, any conversation you will enter on the topic of 'God' will be nothing but political quibbling for you, with no hope to ever get anywhere.
God.
Not at all.
Actually they pretty much have all the bits and pieces now.
So what truth Jan?
If I was to have no reason to believe in what you're saying then I would first have to hear it or read it. The point which you can't seem to grasp is why would you tell me about something you know nothing about in the first place? As an intelligent creature inhabiting this Earth, does it make sense for you to tell me truths about things you can't possibly know? If you were to preface your commentary with the words...."I'm just speculating...." then at least you're being more honest to yourself. If I then believed that your speculation is the truth then I would be a fool. The world is full of people who believe in just that fashion.
I don't pretend to know if God is or isn't. I don't know so I can only believe one way or the other. Since I don't know then I have no reason to explain a truth about God or no God to you or anybody else. Capiche?
I thought of that briefly but it appears so far at least, that you're the only one wise enough to call me on it. I wanted the title to gain attention and to stir things up a bit. In hindsight an if-then might have been better but I think most get my drift. It was just a thought off the top of my head and perhaps I could have reworked the title to suit it.
This is a favorite tactic of LG.(Is that something I know from experience?) I have seen this many times before. I thought I would turn the table on him this time.
Besides, whatever I said I knew, LG is going to question it. I have a general deep disrespect for religious philosophers if you didn't know. Naturally he feels strongly against my views. How many more things do you need to know that I know? Anyway, the thread is about a God we know nothing about. I freely admit I know nothing about God either way but LG says he knows differently. What's wrong with me asking him to tell me what he knows about God that could prove the thread title wrong.? Why aren't you interested in reading his facts instead of hounding me on some frivolous matter?
Now that I answered most relevant questions I want to pursue this down another avenue.
If there are people who claim they know at least one truth about God then why can't they agree with one another. What purpose does more than one religion with God in it serve? So many people claim to know about God yet they belong to separate religions that preach things they know about God that contradicts what someone else knows about God.
In a rational, logical, sensible and reasonable world this should not happen to people who know all about God. One religion knowing God, one truth for all to see.....yet it isn't that way is it? How come? This should be a no brainer.... Monotheists in particular should not be differentiating in their knowledge of the one and only God. What does that tell you?
It tells me that no one knows a damn thing about whether God exists or not. It tells me the futility of trying to learn about something there is no information for. It tells me that if God exists then He has left us with no choice but to believe He is or isn't. It tells me that as intelligent creatures we have no choice but to either say Yes or No and leave it at that. It tells me that people staking their lives on what they know of God are really wasting their lives.
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There is a reference in the bible to this same topic believe it or not.
Paul came across some Greeks who had erected a temple to the "Unknown God" on Mars Hill.
Acts 17:22-34
This addresses the issue pretty well.
It says two things: one that they believe a god exists and secondly, other than that there isn't much else to tell about Him/Her/It. However building a church to even an unknown God suggests our Greek friends thought they knew something about Him/Her/It. I'm beginning to think the writer had a sense of humor or a good satirical wit.
something conspicuous by its absence in many atheistic arguments is a breakdown of what is "reality" and/or the epistemological means for determining it.
So discussions about how anything is "real" becomes as effective as greasing down the tail of a dog.
:shrug:
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no, you're not.
Only when one has an argument that requires them to be tragically linear do we find that people assert themselves as such
fineStay on topic LG. Tell me about God, the known truth, stuff you're sure of. If you want to refute the thread's title then I'm all ears......er eyes.
but first lets hear something (anything) that is a known truth from your mouth. Then we can examine what general epistemological principles you are applying.
(hint - might be helpful to think whether one is vouching for a qualitative or quantitative model before one lays it on the table)
on the contrary, its a standard response to a person who shrieks "that's not real" while maintaining a convenient vagueness about what is.
nothing at all .... once we deal with the minor issues of epistemology that deal with states of knowing.
kind of like the non-consensus on water
some people call it "aqua"
others call it "jal"
There is even no consensus on how people approach it.
Some people get it out of a tap
Others draw it from a river
Some even collect it from the sky.
When will the hypocrisy end?
If there's no consensus on water, why would you expect a consensus on god?
It tells me that if people insist on determining secondary qualities as primary, they have sufficient means to even problematize water.
:shrug:
Hint all you want, I have little interest in this game. Epistemological, qualitative, quantitative.... nice philosophical buzz words. The topic is about a god we know nothing about. I know nothing about the God in question.
During the discussion so far I have claimed that belief doesn't consist of any known facts. I have asked how one can justify a belief as a known fact. I claim that one cannot believe an unknown and know it at the same time. I will retract my claim if someone can prove it otherwise. How many times do I have to say it?
hint - your bold quote is a philosophical assertion
(you must at least know enough about god to make the assertion that you know nothing about him... otherwise you could just have easily posted this thread in the mathematics forum :shrug: IOW perhaps you don't have such a wonderful quantitative model to call upon but you certainly have a qualitative one)
fine
all this talk about what isn't a fact indicates that you must have a clear idea what is a fact, wouldn't you think?
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Marvelous. Hooray for philosophy.
There is no God as far as I know. To say I know something about something I don't know about is a contradiction of terms. However, philosophers have something in common, a view that what is unknowable is knowable by philosophic reasoning. Philosophic reasoning is not contingent upon known facts. This has been the premise of the entire thread and you continue to prove it.
In order for philosophic reasoning to be taken seriously one must accept that there are really no known facts. This makes every thought, every action and every thing equal. I could step in dog shit and ponder whether the dog really exists, or the shit, or what came first. In the end I could conclude that the shit exists because its on my shoe, the dog doesn't exist because it isn't observable or the dog was first cause (no shit without a dog). You can throw all those conclusions in a bag, mix them up and pour out 3 new conclusions if you wish.
Yes, it is anything but a belief.
No less than a "hooray" for your assertions .....
Then what exactly did you hope to accomplish by posting this in the religious subforum as opposed to the mathematics one?
IOW its obviously not the case that you know nothing about god.
(at the very least, you are sensitive to the contextual information that surrounds god, unless you are a piraha tribesman who has no cultural grounding in religion ... or even mathematics for that matter)
.... and thus the tragically linear psychotic episode takes the stage once more.
Ironically, how do you propose that the body of "known facts" increases?
given your absolute hesitance to mention a single known fact, then I guess its obvious that this idea of yours about philosophy is paramount,eh?
You might want to watch what your stepping in before you open with a philosophical assertion in an OP then, don't you think?
So its more a case of I may not know what a fact is but I sure know what it isn't?
To listen to more of your philosophic doubletalk. Mission accomplished.
Math is not one of my strong suits
I needed to hear that nothing counts as something. Why don't you post it in the Nothingness thread?
Is that your God fact?
I needed to get some popcorn. I, not me was, wasn't hungry full.
When the body of unknown facts decreases.
As compared to unknown facts? I'm not an oxymoron.
No, I knew I was going to have to step in shit in order to clean the stable.
As I said, everything is equal using philosophic reasoning
Psychoticepisode
a further suggestion that you have a knowledge base in religion, eh?
so when one decides to go about decreasing the body of unknown facts what exactly do they do?
(bonus points if you can establish how they do it by remaining fully within the perimeter of being contingent on known facts)
hmmmm
For one who apparently has great disdain for radical postmodernism, you sure have an affinity for it!
erm .... the mathematics forum is just as accessible to me as it is to you
yes
a further suggestion that you have a knowledge base in religion, eh?
inasmuch there was "something" that made you decide to post this in the religion thread as opposed to maths one, its quite clear you are using the word "nothing" in novel ways
on the contrary my dear chap, its yours
encore!
marvelous!
so when one decides to go about decreasing the body of unknown facts what exactly do they do?
(bonus points if you can establish how they do it by remaining fully within the perimeter of being contingent on known facts)
The bottom line appears to be there are no (mentionable) known facts but an abundance of false ideas
hmmmm
For one who apparently has great disdain for radical postmodernism, you sure have an affinity for it!
Talking of your values divorced from issues of philosophy makes you sound like a fanatic
probably explains why you having such a dreadful time trying to clean the stable