A God We Know Nothing About

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

PsychoticEpisode,

You mean you want what you want.
This is what you seem to be about, as it is obvious you are
unwilling to cultivate any serious understanding of why people
believe in God.

So you want to change the world so that whent you walk down Mains street, you are not constantly reminded of God, despite the fact that other people don't see life the way you see it?

Aside from the point of focus, where are you any different to the christian
institute whose goal is/was to change to world to their way of thinking, regardless of what others think?

jan.

It is much more the theists who are disturbed & cry fowl if they don't ALWAYS get their way.
NO. It is obvious YOU are unwilling to cultivate any serious understanding of why people believe in God.
I want to live in a world that when I go down Main Street, I am not constantly reminded of absurd cruel fantasy, despite the fact that other people cannot face reality.
It is theists who want to force their baseless beliefs & their ludicrous lifestyle on everyone else. I simply want to live free.

 

[lightgigantic]

No Jan, I want you to be free.

If you're not free yourself, how do you propose to do that?

I want you to be as you were before indoctrination.

meh

as if atheism doesn't have an agenda of indoctrination

I want you deprogrammed.

All glories to the dominant social paradigm I guess ....

I want you to stand on your own two feet. I want you to be free from unjust fear.

Regardless of how strongly you believe you stand on your own two feet, the rug can get pulled out from underneath you in any one of a million ways in a moment. This is why the life of a gross materialist is characterized by constant fear, 24/7.

I never want to see you harm anyone in the name of religion nor feel spite or hate for the same cause.

Given your means, your hope for peace is simply an imagination

I want you to walk down Main Street and not be constantly reminded of religion.

Whats your sublime alternative?
Insignificant desire catalyzed by the specials in Walmart?

i want you to understand you would be better off without the crutch of religion holding you together.

Perhaps its not so much that you don't need a crutch but that you don't have a desire to go anywhere.

I want you to learn to experience reality for what it is, not for what it isn't....yada, yada, blah, blah, blah

yes we get the picture ... the dogma ensues

Once you are deprogrammed I wouldn't say another word to you. There would be no reason to. Atheism doesn't need constant re-enforcing.

Sure

An antithesis that doesn't platform off a thesis doesn't go far.

 

[wynn]

No Jan, I want you to be free. I want you to be as you were before indoctrination. I want you deprogrammed. I want you to stand on your own two feet. I want you to be free from unjust fear. I never want to see you harm anyone in the name of religion nor feel spite or hate for the same cause. I want you to walk down Main Street and not be constantly reminded of religion. i want you to understand you would be better off without the crutch of religion holding you together. I want you to learn to experience reality for what it is, not for what it isn't....yada, yada, blah, blah, blah

Once you are deprogrammed I wouldn't say another word to you. There would be no reason to. Atheism doesn't need constant re-enforcing.

And what is in it for you, if Jan Ardena would be as you want?

What is in it for you, if Jan Ardena would be free, as he was before indoctrination, deprogrammed, standing on his own two feet, free from unjust fear, never harming anyone in the name of religion and so on?

What is in this for you?

 

[wynn]

Just don't start spouting off about whatever you think is going on, religiously speaking, and preach it as a gospel truth.
...
My choice is atheism. I think God doesn't exist but I am unable to walk down Main Street, The World, without being constantly reminded of a god. I prefer to say nothing but I just can't sit here and not respond to the religious who without any true knowledge of their god are influencing my daily life. It's totally unwarranted.

Why shouldn't the theists say anything about God - but you should be free to do so?

Are they inferior to you?

 

[Bishadi]

Well, we all know what the mental disorder is when one pretends to talk with gods, or hears gods talking to them, if they aren't on drugs. Lori clearly needs to seek professional help.

some actually believe they saw bigfoot too

(martians, chucabara, yeti and even elvis)

They i guess a voice could be 'god' to some; when they don't understand what the cause was.

The issue i find most intriguing is the idea that some feel they can represent such without the inner responsibility to what they represent. (to really check out the 'other' possibilities first; to make sure, within)

'the best therapist is the honest answer with 'your-self'

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you're not free yourself, how do you propose to do that?

meh

as if atheism doesn't have an agenda of indoctrination


All glories to the dominant social paradigm I guess ....




Regardless of how strongly you believe you stand on your own two feet, the rug can get pulled out from underneath you in any one of a million ways in a moment. This is why the life of a gross materialist is characterized by constant fear, 24/7.


Given your means, your hope for peace is simply an imagination


Whats your sublime alternative?
Insignificant desire catalyzed by the specials in Walmart?

Perhaps its not so much that you don't need a crutch but that you don't have a desire to go anywhere.

yes we get the picture ... the dogma ensues




Sure

An antithesis that doesn't platform off a thesis doesn't go far.

I disagree.

Signal
And what is in it for you, if Jan Ardena would be as you want?

What is in it for you, if Jan Ardena would be free, as he was before indoctrination, deprogrammed, standing on his own two feet, free from unjust fear, never harming anyone in the name of religion and so on?

What is in this for you?

Nothing...just a nice quiet enjoyable walk down Main Street.

Signal
Why shouldn't the theists say anything about God - but you should be free to do so?

Are they inferior to you?

Illogical....theists know nothing of God. I admit I know nothing about a god and I am not expecting to know anything real soon by the looks of things. Why can't a theist just say I believe in God but I don't know a thing about Him nor do I expect to in this life? How easy is that?

I am not superior to anyone my friend.

 

[lightgigantic]

I disagree.

hehe


I don't doubt that ....

 

[Jan Ardena]

PsychoticEpisode,

No Jan, I want you to be free.

Nobody is free, and to deny God isn't the solution.

I want you to be as you were before indoctrination.

I have no desire to become a baby.
That's not the solution either.

I want you deprogrammed.

Why?

I want you to be free from unjust fear. I never want to see you harm anyone in the name of religion nor feel spite or hate for the same cause.

And i would like you to actually hear what I and others say,as individuals instead of defaulting to cliches.

I want you to walk down Main Street and not be constantly reminded of religion.

I would like to walk down Main street and be consantly reminded of religion.

i want you to understand you would be better off without the crutch of religion holding you together.

I want you to understand that i haven't discussed, nor am i discussing religion
with you.

I want you to learn to experience reality for what it is, not for what it isn't....yada, yada, blah, blah, blah

And i would like you to learn that experience is reality, no matter what it is.

Once you are deprogrammed I wouldn't say another word to you. There would be no reason to. Atheism doesn't need constant re-enforcing.

Thanks, but i like to keep an open mind, and atheism does not accomodate
that.

jan.

 

[Lori_7]

It is much more the theists who are disturbed & cry fowl if they don't ALWAYS get their way.
NO. It is obvious YOU are unwilling to cultivate any serious understanding of why people believe in God.
I want to live in a world that when I go down Main Street, I am not constantly reminded of absurd cruel fantasy, despite the fact that other people cannot face reality.
It is theists who want to force their baseless beliefs & their ludicrous lifestyle on everyone else. I simply want to live free.

I don't know where you live but it seems to me that there are many more pertinant and wortwhile things to be occupying your mind and your energy with as you walk down mainstreet. Honestly, where do you get off blaming others for what's going on in your own head?

 

[Lori_7]

PE, you sanctimonious liar. You don't want anything for jan or myself or anyone else. You obviously don't want freedom. You want evergyone around you to tell you you're right so you feel better about yourself. May I inform you that is no one elses responsibility and that your mentality is exactly the same as many of the religious folks that you complain about.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

PE, you sanctimonious liar. You don't want anything for jan or myself or anyone else. You obviously don't want freedom. You want evergyone around you to tell you you're right so you feel better about yourself. May I inform you that is no one elses responsibility and that your mentality is exactly the same as many of the religious folks that you complain about.

LOL. Very tough to get inside the head of the indoctrinated, your's and Jan's two of the most locked up minds in this forum. Although I think each of you took a slightly different route to get your mindset to where it is now.

It should be obvious by now that the last thing I want to do is endorse theism. There are two ways to encourage theism. One is to openly question it...that's where I come in. I know that by doing so I am incurring the wrath of the religious. However if you have been reading my posts regularly you will have noticed that I do not discourage belief. I am truly against preaching belief as gospel.

Wouldn't it be nice if the conversation between a theist and an atheist went like this:

"Do you believe in God?"
"No"
"Why"
"It's a personal decision that I prefer to keep private"
"I respect that, thanks"
"How about you?"
"I do"
"May I ask you why?"
"You can but I can't honestly answer nor can I provide proof of my God since it is only a belief"
"And I respect you for that"

The last thing anyone in my position would want is to argue against that theist. All it will do is encourage the theist to promote their belief. In fact the belief itself will take on a new perspective, from subjective to objective. Crossing that boundary is the big mistake made by theists and is compounded everytime they preach. If that makes me a liar then so be it.

I suppose you're going to tell me that I am arguing against theism. Again, I argue against preaching theism and atheism for that matter. There is no logical reason to argue and I hate myself when I do fall into that trap. I admit to entering that arena at times, not out of pride but frustration. It isn't the belief/non-belief contradiction that needs to be examined. It's the psychology involved, why do we behave this way? If you pride yourself on being the intelligent creature you are then you need to do a critical self analysis to determine exactly why God suddenly is influencing your life. Psychology unfortunately is an indeterminant science but it can suggest logical reasons for behavioral development.

Unfortunately indoctrination is the fly in the ointment. Without it self analysis is much easier. I think you are in position where you have become a theist basically without being indoctrinated, although you did have previous knowledge of the belief. Earlier I mentioned you were indoctrinated and what I meant by that was the longer you listen to the belief preaching public the more likely you are to become under their spell, if only to assuage any doubts you may have. Therefore it would be wise and prudent of you to seek professional assistance because I think there is hope for you to overcome whatever emotional baggage it is that you're carrying. You may believe but that changes nothing. The placebo effect of theism is pandemic, if I'm allowed to treat it like a virus. Many people are unable to face their fears(emotions). They can be overcome by using conventional wisdom. This is the freedom I allude too.

 

[Lori_7]

My life has never been "suddenly" affected by god. And I don't preach. This is a forum where questions are asked and opinions are given. I live and love without preaching. We all witness with our lives and tongues whether we want to or not. When it comes to my beliefs they can be summed up like this...I believe what I have experienced. If you want me to describe some of those experiences I can do that but I don't see any benefit in trying to speculate on the true meaning of those or to convince others around me that my speculation is correct. I focus on my intentions and leave the rest to fate realizing I'm not responsible for anyone else's.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I believe what I have experienced. If you want me to describe some of those experiences I can do that

No need. Experiences meaning physically and mentally? Experiences are real. We all experience things.

I think you're actually trying to deal with reality. There seems to be some confusion as to what is and isn't. Although you say you experience certain things, the fact that you only believe in them indicates some uncertainty as to their true existence. Thus I've completed the circular path back to faith with those few sentences and that is where you are. You can tell us you know those experiences are real but then you would have to show everyone. Good luck.

 

[Lori_7]

I'm not sure where your confusion lies. My life has actually happened as far as I'm aware and there are many who can and do attest to that. For example, we are having a conversation right now yes? I don't feel the need or see the point in attempting to validate or attempt to explain the meaning of all of my life experience to anyone including myself. That is not to say that I don't think meaning exists, I'm just not hung up on trying to be right. I see no benefit of convincing myself or anyone else of anything. Everyone has their own lives to live, their own responsibilities. I prefer to focus my responsibility on my intent. I suppose that could be a show of faith but even without faith it seems like a good show of common sense.

 

[Lori_7]

It seems like you're trying to force an agenda on me and I do not wish to have an agenda towards myself or anyone else. Agendas compromise honesty and humility, the two things I value most in life.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

1 - The problem is most theists do have an agenda they attempt to force on everyone else, including other theists.

2 - You should be allowed to relate your experiences yet in a discussion, your claims & interpretations will be questioned.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
It is much more the theists who are disturbed & cry fowl if they don't ALWAYS get their way.
NO. It is obvious YOU are unwilling to cultivate any serious understanding of why people believe in God.
I want to live in a world that when I go down Main Street, I am not constantly reminded of absurd cruel fantasy, despite the fact that other people cannot face reality.
It is theists who want to force their baseless beliefs & their ludicrous lifestyle on everyone else. I simply want to live free. ”

I don't know where you live but it seems to me that there are many more pertinant and wortwhile things to be occupying your mind and your energy with as you walk down mainstreet. Honestly, where do you get off blaming others for what's going on in your own head?

Theists force those things on my mind as I go down Main Street.
Honestly, where do you get off accusing me of blaming others for what's going on in my head?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I I see no benefit of convincing myself or anyone else of anything. Everyone has their own lives to live, their own responsibilities.

Exactly what I think everyone should do. Keep it your business.....I totally agree. As far as believing in god, a simple yes or no is all that's required. How difficult is it to act in such a manner.... extremely tough. Perhaps a cultural shift might occur where disclosure without elucidation becomes the norm.

 

[Lori_7]

“Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
It is much more the theists who are disturbed & cry fowl if they don't ALWAYS get their way.
NO. It is obvious YOU are unwilling to cultivate any serious understanding of why people believe in God.
I want to live in a world that when I go down Main Street, I am not constantly reminded of absurd cruel fantasy, despite the fact that other people cannot face reality.
It is theists who want to force their baseless beliefs & their ludicrous lifestyle on everyone else. I simply want to live free. ”





Theists force those things on my mind as I go down Main Street.
Honestly, where do you get off accusing me of blaming others for what's going on in my head?

If you do not control what goes on in your own mind you are weak and that's nobody's fault but your own.

 

[Lori_7]

Stranger you're an admitted codependent and its not healthy. Own your own mind and life. You only get one and as easy as it may be to lay responsibility on someone else, I am not your scapegoat.