1+1+1=1? What's Up with the Trinity?

[blonde_cupid]

Hello everyone. It's nice to see you all after a somewhat lengthy, unplanned absence.

One woman can be a daughter, granddaughter, niece, cousin, sister, friend, girlfriend, lover, wife, mother, baby-oven, father-figure, bed-maker, bread-maker, cook, bottle-washer, dish-washer, window-washer, floor-scrubber, toilet-scrubber, interior decorator, food-shopper, meal-planner, bill-payer, construction-worker, CEO, actress, golfer, aunt, grandmother, etc...

What's up with that?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The Search for the Ancient Christianism

Markx,

I want to see the other Cristians versions.

Do you know what is the problem with Christianism nowdays? Because of its huge expansion all around the world and its ancient texts being traduced to one languege to another since its origin, it have been deeply changed. The better we, as Christians (I don't know with you are, but I'm calling the Christians attention), can do is to find the oldest edition possible and traduce it first to English and then very carefully to other languages.

Because of its interpretational factor, we have to know the original words in order to interpretate it correctly. Than, we have another problem: Jesus words. Are His words really His? Hard to know... perhaps one apostle tried to remember but couldn't... In this case, we as Christians have to assume that the apostles were writing with the Holy Spirit's help.

Another thing. Many of the scriptures were changed through the time and many were lost. I've found one site that talks about some things that are missing in today's Bible that can even make the Bible comparable with other books, like the Torah. Here is the site: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/sefirot.html

It's interesting to see that the ancient Christianism was highly connected with Pagan cultures and other Religions (the Jews, for example).

Things that supposedly were in the ancient Bible...

Witchcraft (with other name), for example. Many Christians in the 1800's wrote books about Witchcraft! Francis Barret is a good example. This guy was Christian, alquemist and witch. If you look up the definition of witch you will find the definition of the Inquisition. The true meaning of witch is: someone that practises Natural Phylosophy. Why? Because the ancient witches in the pagan times in the ancient Celt (where today is France) used to protect the Nature and live within the Nature! When the Christianism approached the Pagan culture, they found many things in common. The same principles, the respect for Nature, etc. But then, people that wanted power came and separeted them to win power and money... this allways happens in our History...

Anyways... another things are Reincarnation, more about angels and dreams, UFO's (which can still be seen in the Bible as "clouds"... the same ancient description appears in the ancient Vimanas and other Religions such as the Jewish, Muslim, etc...), OBE's, etc. A nowdays Christian would probably say that I'm wrong... but if anyone find a very ancient Bible, read it and you will see it with your own eyes!

Another important thing. It's time for another change in Chritianism. Mainly the Catholic. Have you ever seen how huge is the Vatican's church? That's ridiculous! Millions of people all around the world suffering from famine since its construction and we use the money to build that huge church? That's not a Christian attitude! Look where Jesus lived! He had humility! The proud ones will die in God's hands!! This Christians in power are not Christians! They only want the power and money! Our Papa today seem to be an exception... but they are usually not really Christians. We need to change. Here is a link about that:
http://www.uriel.org/Arcana/essays4.htm#Churches

Well, Christianism really needs a reform. First, we have to find the most possible ancient Bible. One of my friends saw one in Mainz, Germany.

Does anyone in Mainz can get one very ancient Bible for me?

And...

Does anyone have a very ancient Bible to borrow me?

I'm ready to work on it. If anyone can get an ancient Bible for me I'll be very thankful.

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by blonde_cupid
Hello everyone. It's nice to see you all after a somewhat lengthy, unplanned absence.

One woman can be a daughter, granddaughter, niece, cousin, sister, friend, girlfriend, lover, wife, mother, baby-oven, father-figure, bed-maker, bread-maker, cook, bottle-washer, dish-washer, window-washer, floor-scrubber, toilet-scrubber, interior decorator, food-shopper, meal-planner, bill-payer, construction-worker, CEO, actress, golfer, aunt, grandmother, etc...

What's up with that?

Ok now you are lost. You can't compare mortal with immortal. If you think of God as you and me or all the above exapmles you gave, Then you are wrong. Sorry. But think for yourself what are you trying to compare here, is simply shows that you are lacking the knowledge of who and what God realy is.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Markx:
Ok now you are lost. You can't compare mortal with immortal. If you think of God as you and me or all the above exapmles you gave, Then you are wrong. Sorry. But think for yourself what are you trying to compare here, is simply shows that you are lacking the knowledge of who and what God realy is.

Don't agree... blonde_cupid is right...
If you read the Bible, Jesus talks about God in parables. God sometimes is shephread, door, etc... It's a very simple Religion. Depending on the "part", the function of God in each passage, there will be a different metaphora to express Him. If you can compare God with a door... why can't you compare with the different works and aspects of women? Blonde_cupid's view is certainly right... because the difference between the Trinity is how each one works...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Markx]

Well lets start with your examples,

"""" Want proof that God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are "completely" separated? Sure...

Acts 1:1-8 :

"1 The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach,
2 until the day when He was taken up, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen.
3 To these He also presented Himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.
4 And gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, 'Which,' He said, 'you heard of from Me;
5 for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.'
6 And so when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, 'Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?'
7 He said to them, 'It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own autorithy;
8 but you shall receive power when the Holy Sipirt has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.' """"""


Now let me just finish this in one paragraph,

The Book of Acts:
"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1643)"


So based on some conclusion, you're willing to die for defending the idea that the Book of Acts was the True Word of GOD Almighty? If the book was inspired by GOD Almighty, then how come it wasn't mentioned in the book itself to help us filter it out from the many other "Satanic false books"? Are we sure that this book too is not a man-made Satanic book?
After all, its just a conclusion, isn't it?

Beside, what evidence are they talking about?! The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus. So unless the Book/Gospel was signed by its author, there is no way we would know for sure that it was indeed his book from the first place, let alone considering it as the True Living Word of GOD.


Now what would happen to trinity I wonder. Also What are you planing to do with very old bible and how old?? You really can't get the original one, since the last thing you can get would be greek one. Sorry that wasn't the languge of Jesus, He spoke Aramic later changed into hebrew. When you can't proof that Bible is word of God then you can't prove trinity out of it either. You really can't prove anything out of it. Even you admit it that bible has been changed and there are lots of add ons and deletion in it's text.

\
"" Because of its interpretational factor, we have to know the original words in order to interpretate it correctly. Than, we have another problem: Jesus words. Are His words really His? Hard to know... perhaps one apostle tried to remember but couldn't... In this case, we as Christians have to assume that the apostles were writing with the Holy Spirit's help."""
\

Exaclty my point. It's long gone buddy. No proof whats so ever. And then one have to put his faith on assumptions. Doesn't sound very hopefull to me.


\Another thing. Many of the scriptures were changed through the time and many were lost. I've found one site that talks about some things that are missing in today's Bible that can even make the Bible comparable with other books, like the Torah. Here is the site: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/st...ts/sefirot.html \

Again simply denying the authenticity of Bible. Same thing I have been saing for long time. Glad you noticed.


\Well, Christianism really needs a reform. First, we have to find the most possible ancient Bible. One of my friends saw one in Mainz, Germany. \

Now another reformation of christianity, It is not a joke friend it is suppose to be a religion. More reformations more translations and more add ons and deletion, Some fabrications some contradictions and there we go, We got our new perfect Holy word of God.
You see that's why I left this religion. No point at all. Oh that's the first by the way when you said christ was a spirit. Interesting I wonder what else would you like to include if you translate that old bible?. No offense but honeslty you gave me the idea that you would start something new.

 

[Markx]

Common Sense!!!!

Originally posted by blonde_cupid
Hello everyone. It's nice to see you all after a somewhat lengthy, unplanned absence.

One woman can be a daughter, granddaughter, niece, cousin, sister, friend, girlfriend, lover, wife, mother, baby-oven, father-figure, bed-maker, bread-maker, cook, bottle-washer, dish-washer, window-washer, floor-scrubber, toilet-scrubber, interior decorator, food-shopper, meal-planner, bill-payer, construction-worker, CEO, actress, golfer, aunt, grandmother, etc...

What's up with that?

Any one with slight common sense can tell what Jesus was trying to say?.......Simply telling every one that God is greater then Jesus.

What did Jesus say about GOD?

In Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come; Only GOD knows. Jesus's followers wanted to know when the Judgment day will come.

In John 14:28 "The Father is greater than I."

In John 10:29 "My Father is greater than ALL."

In John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me." Jesus was sent in this verse by his own admission. In this verse he himself says that the one who is sent: "..... the one who is sent is not greater than the one who sent (John 13:16)."


You still won't get it. It is way too simple for you I think. By the way if you mom is doctor does it make you doctor automaticly? Or can your sister call you Mom? By mistake or by love YES! But delibertly NO!. Cause she would know the differnce between mom and sister.
It is not that hard, Just requires little common sense. I hope it helps.
Peace

 

[TruthSeeker]

Markx,

So based on some conclusion, you're willing to die for defending the idea that the Book of Acts was the True Word of GOD Almighty? If the book was inspired by GOD Almighty, then how come it wasn't mentioned in the book itself to help us filter it out from the many other "Satanic false books"? Are we sure that this book too is not a man-made Satanic book?

What!?!?
You are kidding, don't you?
Look for the message it passes...!

Look... the original ideas are found in many old Bibles. If someone find the oldest, it can be translated. A friend said that the oldest Bible (the first one to be written) is in Mainz. The problem is that the Bible costs a fortune (of course) and unless someone with good sense could let me (or even better, a group of professionals) translate it, the problem would be solved.

I don't deny the authencity of the Bible, I just say that it has been changed as much as any historical document that lasts for so long time and is widely spreaded.

You see that's why I left this religion. No point at all. Oh that's the first by the way when you said christ was a spirit. Interesting I wonder what else would you like to include if you translate that old bible?. No offense but honeslty you gave me the idea that you would start something new.

Left it!?!? Have you ever accepted Jesus in your Heart? I don't think so...

I won't start something new... but I will certainly explain it in a modern way...

If it's necessary... someone will receive the whole message again from the Holy Spirit (or even from God Himself). And then rewrite everything and even continue the Bible...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[TruthSeeker]

Markx,

You still won't get it. It is way too simple for you I think. By the way if you mom is doctor does it make you doctor automaticly? Or can your sister call you Mom? By mistake or by love YES! But delibertly NO!. Cause she would know the differnce between mom and sister.

Let's see how it works looking in the Bible...

Matthew 12:47-50

"47 And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak with You.
48 But He answered the one who was telling Him and said, 'Who is My mother and My brothers?'
49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, 'Behold, My mother and my brothers!
50 'For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.' "

The idea of the titles passed in the Bible are NOT literal. They are just metaphoric pictures that need INTERPRETATION. That is what you are not doing. Blonde_cupid and I did it, and it's why we understand.

Now a prophecy that seems to be about you... :

Matthew 13:14-15 :

" 14,15 And in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES
LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM. ' "

Do you understand with your Heart or with your mind? Do you know what means understand with the Heart?

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Markx]

lol.You make me smile.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Markx
Funny........how mis guided and blind you are.

Isn't it though? How could someone be so blind? I'm glad you set me straight! But then again, make sure you look in the mirror for your flaws, use that cold logic on your life. Or is that advice only reserved for people that don't think like you? So what makes you think you're right? Hummm????????

Funny you missed Jesus's whole message and think he is Son of God.

Isn't it though? When I was 15 and a so-so Catholic, I read the message and what I got was totally different when I read it at 30 as a born-again believer. Why would Paul say, "Rejoice" while in prison? That he wore chains for Christ? I would not have know then, nor what Jesus meant by, "The Kingdom is at hand" either.

Funny you read bible in your own language and understand totaly opposite.

Isn't it though? Only thing though, is if it is the word of God, then it doesn't matter what language or dialect it is translated in, God's Word will come through. I don't believe you have to be a 'Koine' Greek or Hebrew scholar to understand the Bible. Because if you do, then God stutters to the family of man who don't understand those ancient languages, therefor He has no claim to be a Universal God and can not be God. Likewise, if you have to understand Arabic to understand the true meaning of the 'Quran', then Allah is only the god of the Arabs and can not be the God of the Universe. If the Creator can not make Himself understood, he is not the creator. As for man, I'll be the judge of what you say, trying to understand your meaning and intent. I realize that not all languages are precise, but knowing English and Spanish gives me insight into that problem. And being a Chicano in American society, gives me insight into what cultural dominance and imperialism mean. Therefor I'll be the judge of what I believe and why, not someone else 'thank you'.

Funny you can't prove your so called Holy trinity.

Isn't it though? When I was young, I was sure that there was no trinity after reading most of the Old Testament, and after going to Jewish synagogues for about 4 years, I left them too because I could not reconcile the Royal "We" in the Torah, as in "Let us make man in our image". I read the Bible now and it seems to me that something's going on between Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit, and early Christians seem to believe it too, as far as all the New Testament goes.

Funny even your own biblical experts deny the idea of trinity but you believed in it.

Isn't it though? Could be because they don't believe in God or the Bible? I wonder if you are talking about, "The Jesus Project"? If all disciplines had experts like these, no one would believe in anything!

Funny that instead of following Jesus you start worshiping him. Even thou he told you to worship GOD the Father above.

Isn't it though? Why did He say, "I and the Father are One" and why did His followers seem to think so???

Should I continue??

Why 'yes' you should, nothing wrong with dialog or discussion, unless this is not really your intent?

 

[Markx]

Let me make it easy for you.............

Originally posted by Randolfo


Jesus saying "I and the Father are One.":

Before I start on John 10:30 Verse, let's examine some of the exaggerating expressions that were said by Jesus himself in the New Testament:

An exaggerating expression in the Bible:

The Bible contains many verses in it that contain irrational statements. For instance we read in Matthew 21:21 " Jesus replied, 'I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.'" I challenge any "faithful" believing Christian to move one brick, not a mountain with his sight or words. Have any Christian from the time of Jesus till now been able to do it?

Another exaggerating expression is in Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Again, I challenge any Christian to allow himself to get bit by a poisonous rattle snake or cobra and survive its venom.

Does this mean no "Christian" is a real Christian? Did Jesus say that no one will ever be a believer, since they can't lift mountains with their eye sights nor survive deadly poisons?

Does the Bible contain exaggerating expressions in it? and if so, then how can you take the "Trinitarian" verses so literal then? They too are nothing but exaggerations (as I proved below in this post) that do not prove that Jesus is the Creator of this Universe or God him self.




Let's look at John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely misunderstood and is taken out of context, because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."

These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.


Also let's look at verse John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in
them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE". In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.

Of the verse in question, "I and the Father are One" in (John 10:30), we also need to take note of the verses following the 30th verse in the text. In those verses, the Jews accuse Jesus falsely of claiming to be God by these words. He however replies, proving their accusation wrong by their own text: "The Jews answered him saying,'For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because that thou being a man, makest thyself a God '" (John 10:33).

Jesus replies to this accusation saying: "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them gods, unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).


Let us look at Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus. Jesus thus even to his disciples, as to early Christians, not poisoned by Pauline doctrine, was a man, not a God.


Now From www.jewsforjudaism.org:

Question: In John 10:30 Jesus says, "I and the Father are one [hen]." Doesn't this show that they are one in essence?

This statement does not suggest either a dual or triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word hen ("one") becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: "That they may be one [hen], just as we are one [hen]" (John 17:22), which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God, as stated: "I [Jesus] always do the things that are pleasing to Him [God]" (John 8:29).
There is thus no implication that Jesus and God, or the twelve apostles are to be considered as of one essence.






Now from, following vereses


1.2.2.7 John 10:30



"I and my father are one."


This verse, however is quoted out of context. The complete passage, starting with John 10:23, reads as follows:


"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."

John 10:23-30


In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.


Need more proof? Then read:


"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."

John 17:20-22


Is all of mankind also part of the "Trinity"?


Such terminology can be found in many other places, read for example:


"Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit,"

1 Corinthians 6:15-17


And also

"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Ephesians 4:6


And

"For as the (human) body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many."

1 Corinthians 12:12-14


Once we read the above verses and understand what the message was that Paul was trying to get across, then we can begin to understand his words in such places as


"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Ephesians 4:4


"St. Paul" was speaking about Christian unity, not about a plurality of gods merged into one body. As we shall soon see, he was completely ignorant of where his teachings would later lead, and how decades later, they would be the foundations which would spawn the "Trinity" doctrine.



Now is it too dificult for you to understand? I think it is pretty simple. But you can take it however you like. Since you want to beleive in triune God and you will. If you read it with logic and common sense then you will realize what exactly the message was.

I'll break it down for you and will get back to you on rest later. I like to remind you I in no means trying to disgrace your religion but simply showing you different and more logical side of this religion rather then mystic and fairytale side.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

Randolfo, good to see that you are back. This was my original question to you that you never answered?

Randolfo, how can you base your truths on a "Holy Book" that has been misinterpreted and mistranslated for years. How can you base you entire Life on the Bible that has been tampered with. As many quotes as you find that Jesus states or implies that he is "God" I can quote atleast double that proves just the opposite. This infact means that there are contradictions in the Bible. There are over 100 contradictions in the Bible. So why put your complete Faith in something like this???? It Boggles my mind!!!!!!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Markx,

Does this mean no "Christian" is a real Christian? Did Jesus say that no one will ever be a believer, since they can't lift mountains with their eye sights nor survive deadly poisons?

That's wrong. If you want to lift a mountain or do anything else by Faith, you have to SAY it. And you have also to believe in it with your Heart (which means lots of things...).

These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.

You are right. Christians usually misunderstand this verses...

In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.

Markx, I would like to add that when Jesus ask us to carry the cross with Him (I don't remember the passage now...) it's meant that is for us to have the same purpose of Him.

Now is it too dificult for you to understand? I think it is pretty simple. But you can take it however you like. Since you want to beleive in triune God and you will. If you read it with logic and common sense then you will realize what exactly the message was.

The use of common sense is incouraged in the Bible:

Proverbs 20:15 :
" 15 Good sense is far more valuable than gold or precious jewls."

Proverbs 23:15,16 :
"15,16 My son, how I will rejoice if you become a man of common sense. Yes, my heart will thrill to your thoughtful, wise words."

God doesn't want us only to praise and worship Him singing and dancing... :bugeye:

Randolfo, the better way to praise and worship the Father is by desiring Wisdom, being humble, preaching Love and Compassion (the Word of God) and by loving your enemies and praying for them. Don't "worry" very much about God, worry more about yourself.

Another thing, accept criticism:

Proverbs 29:1
"1 The man who is often reproved but refuses to accept criticism will suddenly be broken and never have another chance."

Markx, I have your same ideas... but I go further in the interpretation...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

Randolfo, the better way to praise and worship the Father is by desiring Wisdom, being humble, preaching Love and Compassion (the Word of God) and by loving your enemies and praying for them. Don't "worry" very much about God, worry more about yourself.

Another thing, accept criticism:

Blessings,
Nelson

Thanks, I appreciate your advice, but humbleness is not a quality I will willingly give to other humans, only to God. Humans are too contentious & opinionated for me to humbly take their advice. If I were humble, I'd graciously accept others opinions and beliefs as so much better than my own. And I would accept defeat at the hands of such a diverse and prolific multitude. I'll leave the humbleness to others.

 

[Tiassa]

Further evidence ....

Thanks, I appreciate your advice, but humbleness is not a quality I will willingly give to other humans, only to God.

What's this? Another Christian admitting that he's only in it for his own ass? Why am I not surprised?

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by LIGHTBEING
Randolfo, good to see that you are back.
Randolfo, how can you base your truths on a "Holy Book" that has been misinterpreted and mistranslated for years. How can you base you entire Life on the Bible that has been tampered with. As many quotes as you find that Jesus states or implies that he is "God" I can quote atleast double that proves just the opposite. This infact means that there are contradictions in the Bible. There are over 100 contradictions in the Bible. So why put your complete Faith in something like this???? It Boggles my mind!!!!!!
This was my original question to you that you never answered?

Since Markx asked a similar question, which I did answer, I'll just re-post the same reply;
...if it is the word of God, then it doesn't matter what language or dialect it is translated in, God's Word will come through. I don't believe you have to be a 'Koine' Greek or Hebrew scholar to understand the Bible. Because if you do, then God stutters to the family of man who don't understand those ancient languages, therefore He has no claim to be a Universal God and can not be God. Likewise, if you have to understand Arabic to understand the true meaning of the 'Quran', then Allah is only the god of the Arabs and can not be the God of the Universe. If the Creator can not make Himself understood, he is not the creator. As for man, I'll be the judge of what you say, by trying to understand your meaning and intent. I realize that not all languages are precise, but knowing English and Spanish gives me insight into that problem. And being a Chicano in American society, gives me insight into what cultural dominance and imperialism mean. Therefore I'll be the judge of what I believe and why, not someone else 'thank you'.

Originally posted by LIGHTBEING
There are over 100 contradictions in the Bible. So why put your complete Faith in something like this???? It Boggles my mind!!!!!

I believe God's Word comes through loud and clear for those that have ears to hear; you read something that to you is flawed, I read something that to me is God's word that was meant to mean something to those that it was originally written to in the past, all others afterwards, including us and into the future. I believe that Christianity will be taken to the stars by man one day. And that these arguments will continue until the end of time. LIGHTBEING, I accept you as just another human, not all-knowing, nor all-understanding, or all-wise, but flawed like me, I'm sure that some of your beliefs would boggle other minds as well. Yes or no???

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: Further evidence ....

Originally posted by tiassa
What's this? Another Christian admitting that he's only in it for his own ass? Why am I not surprised?

thanx,
Tiassa

That may be how you look at it. Tell me, why should I be humble with you? "Just because", is not good enough. By the way, I'm surprised, this is your shortest response ever, you normally are wordier.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

I believe God's Word comes through loud and clear for those that have ears to hear; you read something that to you is flawed, I read something that to me is God's word that was meant to mean something

I'm used to this one. Typical Christian response.

I believe that Christianity will be taken to the stars by man one day.

C'mon. Taking your religion to other Soloar systems and Planets.
1 of 2 things would happen.

1. Extraterrestrials will reject your religion just as you do to others. It's possible that they have religion also.

2. Extraterrestrials will convince you that you don't need religion. That would be great!!!! Please take me with you so I can witness this one.

LIGHTBEING, I accept you as just another human

Uhm, thank you???

not all-knowing, nor all-understanding, or all-wise,

Never said or implied that I was

I'm sure that some of your beliefs would boggle other minds as well. Yes or no???

Yes, your right, maybe to close minded people. My main belief is purely simple and logical. "Do not believe everything that you read or are told" You probably live and embrace the same value but when it comes to your Precious Bible the same rules do not apply?

I admit, my theories of the Universe and "God" are not generally accepted and sometimes maybe even a little far out but this is part of being open minded. I'm young, I'm ambitious, I'm searching for Knowledge and Wisdom and at this point in my life it would be a "Sin" if I submitted myself to any "Holy Book". This would just end my Search and close me off to such great possibilities.

And the contradictions in the Bible that I'm referring to are clear and are complete opposites. They are not up for interpretation. So, I'm sorry but my question still remains.....How can one believe in such a "Holy Book" knowing this.

 

[Tiassa]

Well?

By the way, I'm surprised, this is your shortest response ever, you normally are wordier

It's just that easy, Randolfo to be brief on such occasions.

Yes, your obligation is to be humble before God and bitterly sarcastic toward men. Biblical.

What motivation do you have to not be humble toward men, or is it just your natural predisposition?

Consider for a moment that Christianity is an evangelical (proactive) faith that blackmails (obey or suffer deliberately calculated consequences); what this means is that every once in a while, Christianity tries to blackmail society.

When I left Christianity behind, I believed that Christians hated other people. There's a subtle difference 'twixt that and reality, though. Presently, I lean toward the notion that what is wrong is that Christians hate themselves (born into sin), and are obliged (evangelical) to spread that self-loathing. It isn't, for instance, that a Christian hates a homosexual actively, but that the Christian is obliged to want the homosexual to hate his or her own self just as much as Christians hate their own selves. When you stop and think about it, it makes some sense: Christians are, after all, waiting for the end of the world. Looking forward to it, as I recall.

Thus, when a Christian admits that it's all for naught, I find the occasion remarkable.

As such, I chose to remark on the occasion.

Honestly, I hadn't found it worth a full-blown editorial. How many words would you like me to burn on this point?

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Markx]

You are still avoiding his Question. No one is arguing what dilect you read or what language. He is simply asking the book that has so many contradictions, How could you believe in something like this?.
There are obvious contradictions errors and lot more. Not just non-christians but even christians admit it. We really would like to know. Why do you believe in somethng like this?.