Zionist piracy

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Er, "defend" themselves by planning a lynch mob at a hatefest before having undergone any fire from anyone. If that happened.

So, you are saying that they should not have organised a defense when they saw they were about to be stormed?

I mean if they were really getting a lynch mob together, one would assume they would have armed themselves better than with a couple of metal pipes, pocket knives and whatever they could scrounge on the ship, including pastic chairs.

I have to wonder about this whole frothing and getting Jew hating lynch mob together and if this was premeditaded if all they had to defend themselves with was plastic deck chairs and a couple of iron pipes.:rolleyes:

That's the thing: I just don't believe you. I don't think you understand the term. You're just referencing it now. I've watched the vids and haven't seen any Israeli firing first, which you keep claiming; only a mob swirling around on deck, attacking rapelling troops with lethal weapons. Do you actually have anything like this? It would go a long way towards re-establishing your credibility.
Refer to my previous post about the only videos the world has been allowed to see of the events and how the independent journalists or passengers and observers have been detained without being allowed to speak to the outside world?

What, not even a "singalong"? But I thought you implied you had seen that. So which are you lying about: having seen it, or not having seen it?
I have seen it. What I am questioning is how that is taking precendence with you over people being killed. Apparently preparing to defend yourself as you see commandos storm your ship is a bad thing in Geoff's world.

Intellectual disconnect isn't going to solve your problems here, Bells? Maybe you don't mind so much that one of the sheikhs on board is a Western Wall conspiracy theorist, but it does have a certain ring, coupled with the hate-fest and the events of the actual boarding. Do you actually think anyone at all would have been killed if the "passengers" hadn't attacked the Israelis in a mob? Do you get the fact that it's better media-wise if they don't have decent weapons? Because if all they use is "iron-ish sticks" and knives and the odd Molotov, then they'll have a happy array of mindless excuse-makers. Not that I'm accusing you of mindlessness.
Wring those hands some more Geoff..

What even the Israeli videos show is that those passengers were using what they had been able to quickly scramble together to defend themselves against an illegal attack by armed men. Your argument doesn't hold to be honest. Because if they were a Jew hating mob and planning this, they would have been a hell of a lot better prepared instead of being armed as they were armed.

At the end of the day, the world community has recognised that the actions of Israel are inexcusable. I'll wait until I hear from the independent observers, including an ex US ambassador and politicians, as well as human rights group members who were there observers, not to mention the journalists who were there independently to report on the flotilla. I'll wait to hear of what they saw and experienced. That is when Israel allows them to speak or releases them.
 
The next aid ship is due to set sail for Gaza tomorrow, what will they do now?

What will they do? Don't you remember what they did after bulldozing Rachel Corrie? They didn't stop.

1. Rachel Corriewas killed by an Israeli army bulldozer in Gaza on 16 March, 2003, as she tried to stop it demolishing a Palestinian home.

The family of the US activist blames the Israeli military for her death and is forcing the country to defend itselfin court.

2. Tom Hurndall was a 21-year-old photojournalism student who travelled to the Gaza Strip as part of the International Solidarity Movement.

He was shot in the head in April 2003 by an Israeli army sniper while trying to rescue Palestinian children in the street.

He never regained consciousness and died nine months later in a London hospital.

3. British cameraman James Miller,34, was shot dead by another soldier from the same Israeli unit just a mile away three weeks later.

He was in Rafah while making a documentary for a US cable channel.

An autopsy confirmed he was almost certainly killed by an Israeli soldier, despite the army's assertions to the contrary.

Video evidence clearly showed Miller and his team carrying white flags and shouting to Israeli soldiers that they were British journalists.

4. Tristan Anderson,38, had three brain operations after being shot in the head with a high-velocity tear gas canister by Israeli security forces on 13 March 2009.

Anderson, who survived with major brain damage, was in the West Bank village of Nilin, protesting with Palestinian farmers against the construction of Israel's "separation wall".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/2010531133245383565.html

Do you remember this incident?

The 6,151-ton Sol Phryne was purchased in some secrecy by the Palestine Liberation Organisation and renamed Al Awda ("the Return"). The PLO planned to symbolically ferry 135 Palestinian deportees and, if they accepted the short notice invitation, hundreds of journalists and other observers, to the port of Haifa for a "journey of return" echoing the journey of the Exodus.

Israeli Defence Minister Yitzhak Rabin stated that Israel would oppose the voyage "in whatever ways we find, while Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir labeled the journey "a declaration of war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Phryne

They sunk the Sol Phryne its just there were not casualties. Its this history of the Israeli military reaction to this type of activism that makes me agree with Fraggle that it was done to provoke a violent reaction. They had to know that the Israeli's would react like this. Its kind of like saying that you want to take food into N. Korea to help the starving and then act surprised when they are thrown into prison or shot on sight of crossing into the border.
 
ok so the focus is now turning to the Isreali lifting of the blockade....

However Isreals accomplice Mubarak should also shoulder some of the responsibility for this massacre cos if the egyptian side of the Gaza border wasnt blockaded by Egypt than the isreali blockade would not be so effective

I just hope that ass wipe Mubarak is not hypocritical enough to attend the Arab league meeting
 
What will they do? Don't you remember what they did after bulldozing Rachel Corrie? They didn't stop.

1. Rachel Corriewas killed by an Israeli army bulldozer in Gaza on 16 March, 2003, as she tried to stop it demolishing a Palestinian home.

The family of the US activist blames the Israeli military for her death and is forcing the country to defend itselfin court.

2. Tom Hurndall was a 21-year-old photojournalism student who travelled to the Gaza Strip as part of the International Solidarity Movement.

He was shot in the head in April 2003 by an Israeli army sniper while trying to rescue Palestinian children in the street.

He never regained consciousness and died nine months later in a London hospital.

3. British cameraman James Miller,34, was shot dead by another soldier from the same Israeli unit just a mile away three weeks later.

He was in Rafah while making a documentary for a US cable channel.

An autopsy confirmed he was almost certainly killed by an Israeli soldier, despite the army's assertions to the contrary.

Video evidence clearly showed Miller and his team carrying white flags and shouting to Israeli soldiers that they were British journalists.

4. Tristan Anderson,38, had three brain operations after being shot in the head with a high-velocity tear gas canister by Israeli security forces on 13 March 2009.

Anderson, who survived with major brain damage, was in the West Bank village of Nilin, protesting with Palestinian farmers against the construction of Israel's "separation wall".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/2010531133245383565.html

Do you remember this incident?

The 6,151-ton Sol Phryne was purchased in some secrecy by the Palestine Liberation Organisation and renamed Al Awda ("the Return"). The PLO planned to symbolically ferry 135 Palestinian deportees and, if they accepted the short notice invitation, hundreds of journalists and other observers, to the port of Haifa for a "journey of return" echoing the journey of the Exodus.

Israeli Defence Minister Yitzhak Rabin stated that Israel would oppose the voyage "in whatever ways we find, while Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir labeled the journey "a declaration of war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Phryne

They sunk the Sol Phryne its just there were not casualties. Its this history of the Israeli military reaction to this type of activism that makes me agree with Fraggle that it was done to provoke a violent reaction. They had to know that the Israeli's would react like this. Its kind of like saying that you want to take food into N. Korea to help the starving and then act surprised when they are thrown into prison or shot on sight of crossing into the border.

so basically you think its the activists fault the Israelis are a bunch of thugs. well that's par for the course from you.
 
This is... extremely sad, sick, horrible, disgusting.. nothing could justify an act of firing humanitarian aid brought by unarmed people.. no blockage of humanitarian aid should be allowed in the first place.. it's very inhumane.. why does the UN or the US as the world super power, the only hope available, don't do anything to stop this craziness, in fact supporting them.. why does the rest of the world don't do anything to stop this...

Well for the same reason why they couldn't force humanitarian assistance on Myanmar. They also blocked aid but the UN is not in a position to force any nation to do anything. The US can only withhold funds or send in troops and it doesn't seem prepared to do either. How can the international community for example force N.Korea to open up so that the starving masses can be helped? Well there isn't much they can do if a government is intractable.
 
so basically you think its the activists fault the Israelis are a bunch of thugs. well that's par for the course from you.

Keep up PJ. Sam asked how would the Israeli's react if when the second flotilla is sent and I showed her previous responses where activists have been killed and the PLO boat full of Palestinian refugees being sunk. It shows HISTORICAL reactions. In short if you are an activist and face off with the Israeli military be prepared for a violent reaction even if you are unarmed. Learn to read and stop being a git.
 
Lets see: Israil has atacked a US spy ship in international waters

Israil has used 24 Australian (plus british ect) passports to commit a vicious, calculated murder (and there have been other incidents aparently, NZ for instance and even another instance in Australia acording to the Foreign Minister Stephen Smith who im inclinded to belive over israil)

They have blocked all aid and now go so far as to ATACK aid ships

Anyone else think we are talking about somewhere like burma rather than "the great democracy" of israil?

When will the US call it quits with them?

BTW

ONE Australian has been wounded and two others arrested during a deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip.
Fairfax journalists Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty were on board but were not hurt and are being detained in an Israeli detention centre.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith this morning confirmed that at least one Australian was wounded in the attack in which at least nine people died,

Israel says activists aboard nine ships, taking tonnes of supplies to Gaza, attacked its commandos yesterday, while the flotilla's organisers said the Israeli forces opened fire first.

Australia is demanding Israel conduct a credible investigation subject to international scrutiny over a deadly the raid.

Mr Smith described the incident as "terrible and shocking".

He said one Australian was shot in the leg during the attack and was being treated in an Israeli hospital, but did not identify the person.

"We don't have any information that any other Australians have been caught up either injured or killed at this stage," Mr Smith told ABC Radio.

Consular officials were working "very actively" and "strenuously" to determine the welfare of other Australians who may have been aboard the flotilla.

There are reports 19 people died in the clash which occurred when Israeli forces moved in to block the flotilla's passage to the Palestinian coastline.

Contact with the two Australians was lost for some hours, sparking fears for their welfare.

Peter Fray, editor of the Fairfax publication The Sydney Morning Herald, confirmed that they were safe "and being processed in an Israeli detention centre".

"We remain hopeful that they will be allowed to do their job, and that they will have a terrific story to tell when they are released," Mr Fray said in a statement.
...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...aza-relief-ships/story-e6frea9l-1225873704937

Rudd condemns aid flotilla violence

Updated 23 minutes ago
ABC News


Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says the Government is deeply concerned about the loss of life onboard an aid flotilla headed for Gaza which was raided by Israeli forces yesterday.

Israel's navy, meanwhile, says it is ready to stop another aid ship headed to Gaza, playing down the prospect of its forces shying from another confrontation.

Israel's Army Radio reported the MV Rachel Corrie, a converted merchant ship, would reach Gazan waters by Wednesday.

In a media conference this afternoon, Mr Rudd says he is yet to receive a full briefing on the incident, in which nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed.

But he says it is imperative Israel conducts a full investigation and provides its findings to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC).

"The Australian Government condemns any use of violence under the sorts of circumstances we have seen," he said.

He says the blockade against Gaza should be lifted.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith says the Government will consider carefully the best way of handling the incident, but stressed the onus was on Israel to provide a detailed explanation of the attack.

"There are of course concerns, not just expressed in Australia but throughout the international community, of the use of force and the possible use of disproportionate force," he said.

Asked whether the incident would have a marked effect on Israel's standing in the international community, Mr Smith said: "That will depend on the way in which Israel conducts itself now."

Mr Smith also confirmed that an Australian man was shot in the leg during the deadly Israeli raid and that consular officials have visited him in hospital.

Mr Smith said an Australian journalist and photographer - known to be aboard one of the ships - were safe after the "terrible and shocking incident".

The Minister told Parliament this afternoon that Australian consular officials would get access to the photographer, Kate Geraghty, later today, while Irish officials would assist journalist Paul McGeogh, who is an Irish citizen.

There are two other Australian women on board, who have also been detained, Mr Smith said.


UN reaction

The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) has wrapped up a late-night meeting and called for a full investigation into Monday's raids.

In a consensus statement, the council called for the immediate release of the ships and 480 civilians detained by Israel.

Britain's ambassador to the United Nations, Mark Lyall Grant, says yesterday's events cannot be viewed in isolation.

"They must be set against the context of the intolerable and unsustainable situation that pertains in Gaza," he said.

"It is clearer than even that Israel's restrictions on access to Gaza must be lifted in line with Security Council Resolution 1860. The current closure is unacceptable and counter-productive."

Speaking at the emergency meeting, Israel's deputy ambassador to the UN, Daniel Carmon, said Israeli soldiers acted in self-defence against people with links to Hamas.

"The answer is clear - they are not peace activists, they were not messengers of good will," he said.

"They cynically use the guide of humanitarian aid to send a message of hate and to implement violence."

Aerial footage released by Israel appears to show commandos being attacked as they abseil onto the deck of the ship.

But Free Gaza Movement organiser Renee Jaouadi, who is originally from Newcastle, told ABC Radio from Cyprus that Israel's accusations were a lie.

"I'm not sure how they (Israel) can say their soldiers were attacked when their soldiers were the ones who were actually partaking in an illegal siege of boats, an act of piracy in international waters," she said.

"The civilians on board the ship were all unarmed. There were no arms, no live ammunition, there were no guns on board any of the ships and that was quite clearly stated by each organisation that [was] a part of the flotilla which had their ships thoroughly searched and certified before they left port."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/01/2915244.htm?section=justin
 
I'm waiting to see what the Turks do, with the killing of Turkish civilians in international waters, they can legally bring a case against Israel in the international court. Even the boarding of the ships without permission from the ships captain constitutes an act of piracy.

Well I just heard on the BBC worldwide service radio that the US has had talks with Turkey and have gotten them to temper their language in regards to the UN resolution response.
 
The UN is the highest international authority, they should be able to do something about this. If we live in a country without police, we can always move to other country to have some sense of security.

Ok. What would you like the UN to do? There have been some 300 resolutions condemning Israel. The UN body cannot hold sanctions against Israel if the US blocks it in the security council. The UN needs an invitation to send in troops which the Israeli's will not allow and the US would block in a security council vote. You could indict them in an international court like they did with the president of Sudan but the president of Sudan has yet to be arrested. So what action would you like them to take?

Here are the options:

1. More resolutions.

2. Sanctions.

3. Send in UN troops.

It is not the first time that the Israeli's have attacked peaceful activists. Turkey has already compromised and decided to work with the US in tempering its language against Israel in the UN.
 
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.. why does the UN or the US as the world super power, the only hope available, don't do anything to stop this craziness, in fact supporting them.. !

US internal politics does not allow the US politicians and media to be objective when it comes to Israel. Saying objective things about Israel could cost politicians and media people their jobs.
 
Ok. What would you like the UN to do? There have been some 300 resolutions condemning Israel. The UN body cannot hold sanctions against Israel if the US blocks it in the security council. The UN needs an invitation to send in troops which the Israeli's will not allow and the US would block in a security council vote. You could indict them in an international court like they did with the president of Sudan but the president of Sudan has yet to be arrested. So what action would you like them to take?

Here are the options:

1. More resolutions.

2. Sanctions.

3. Send in UN troops.

It is not the first time that the Israeli's have attacked peaceful activists. Turkey has already compromised and decided to work with the US in tempering its language against Israel in the UN.

actually millatry santions would in all liklyhood work quite well, its not like israil has the resorces to build even guns from scratch for long. As for the strongest responce the UN can make, it can declare war on the country (look at Afganistan if you dont belive that), not that this will (or nessarly should) happen but it can
 
I do not understand politic, it's the job of the people in the UN and all other policy makers, they are entrusted to do it. Obama, for example, is given the noble prize, because people put hope on him, he has the power to do something, he is the leader of the USA. If all those policy makers have enough good faith and stop being greedy or selfish, it should be a good start. They are so disappointing.

Well I agree that the US is in a better position to do something but it is unlikely. For example:

U.S. President Barack Obama told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu he deeply regretted the loss of life in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla on Monday and urged him to quickly get to the bottom of the incident.

The White House’s cautious response, which contrasted with an outcry against Israel’s actions in Europe and the Muslim world, reflected a difficult balancing act for Obama.

He will face international pressure to join condemnation of Israel but must also be mindful that the close U.S. ally is popular with American lawmakers and voters. At the same time, fledgling U.S.-led Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts are at risk of collapse.

“The president expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today’s incident, and concern for the wounded,” the White House said in a summary of Obama’s phone call with Netanyahu hours Israeli marines stormed a Turkish aid ship bound for Gaza and at least nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed.

“The president also expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning’s tragic events as soon as possible,” it said.

http://forward.com/articles/128431/

And as is reported by the BBC the US has already arranged a compromise with Turkey to temper its response to Israel. The UN body is not in control of international affairs the security council is and if the US veto's any direct action against Israel then there is nothing that the UN can do. Look at all the global situations that the UN handled poorly or couldn't manage to handle at all.
 
actually millatry santions would in all liklyhood work quite well, its not like israil has the resorces to build even guns from scratch for long. As for the strongest responce the UN can make, it can declare war on the country (look at Afganistan if you dont belive that), not that this will (or nessarly should) happen but it can

How can you sanction Israel if the US blocks it on the security council?

The UN cannot 'declare war' on any nation. The can send in peacekeepers but only IF they are invited. Don't you remember when the UN wanted to send a large force into the Sudan? The Sudanese government said that they would see any UN troops as an invading army and so the UN backed off. The UN cannot by its own mandate 'declare war'.

Afghanistan is a coalition war made up of the US and nato it is not a UN war.
 
Well I agree that the US is in a better position to do something but it is unlikely. For example:

U.S. President Barack Obama told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu he deeply regretted the loss of life in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla on Monday and urged him to quickly get to the bottom of the incident.

The White House’s cautious response, which contrasted with an outcry against Israel’s actions in Europe and the Muslim world, reflected a difficult balancing act for Obama.

He will face international pressure to join condemnation of Israel but must also be mindful that the close U.S. ally is popular with American lawmakers and voters. At the same time, fledgling U.S.-led Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts are at risk of collapse.

“The president expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today’s incident, and concern for the wounded,” the White House said in a summary of Obama’s phone call with Netanyahu hours Israeli marines stormed a Turkish aid ship bound for Gaza and at least nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed.

“The president also expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning’s tragic events as soon as possible,” it said.

http://forward.com/articles/128431/

And as is reported by the BBC the US has already arranged a compromise with Turkey to temper its response to Israel. The UN body is not in control of international affairs the security council is and if the US veto's any direct action against Israel then there is nothing that the UN can do. Look at all the global situations that the UN handled poorly or couldn't manage to handle at all.

whos more important to the US? UK or israil? thats what it might well come down to because the UK has come out strongly against israil over this (and arnt likly to back down concidering they are already pissed off about there passports being used), the same with eroupe and Australia. The US wont continue to back ITSELF into a courner simply to surport policies which i strongly doubt THEY agree with
 
Well for the same reason why they couldn't force humanitarian assistance on Myanmar. They also blocked aid but the UN is not in a position to force any nation to do anything. The US can only withhold funds or send in troops and it doesn't seem prepared to do either. How can the international community for example force N.Korea to open up so that the starving masses can be helped? Well there isn't much they can do if a government is intractable.
A reasonable point. One would hope that this event may prompt the US to apply appropriate pressure. :m:
 
whos more important to the US? UK or israil? thats what it might well come down to because the UK has come out strongly against israil over this (and arnt likly to back down concidering they are already pissed off about there passports being used), the same with eroupe and Australia. The US wont continue to back ITSELF into a courner simply to surport policies which i strongly doubt THEY agree with

I would think they are both important. Strong language against Israel no matter who it comes from is not the same as trying to override a US veto on the security council. In other words ask yourself this instead. What is more important to the UK, strong ties with the US or making a strong stand against Israel? They were pissed off about the passport-dubai assassination thing too.:shrug:
 
Why don't the US give some piece of land to the Israelis? Ask them to leave the Middle East and move to some part in America and establish their country there? You like each other, you can be neighbour with each other, after all it's all they want (a country of their own) rihght? Why should shed all the bloods? Who cares about history of some 2000 years ago? Everyone everyday moving somewhere else permanently, why should prefer constant war, why why ??

Hi kira

i hope all is good with you

that would make sense i have to say

or alternatively everyone who lives in Isreal and occupied Westbank and Gaza should be unified as one countyr and all the people given the vote, then Isreal and America can boost to the hilltops on hour great isreali democracy is:D
 
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