Some are unmoved. Some are horrified. I wonder what the "peace activists" think of their fellow activists stabbing and clubbing the Israelis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZLQDVt1Ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZLQDVt1Ek
Zionist piracy
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The next aid ship is due to set sail for Gaza tomorrow, what will they do now? This reminds me of the satyagraha movement. When the British knocked down one person with a lathi blow to the head, he was immediately replaced by the next one. How many ships will Israelis attack? How many people will they kill for the privilege of keeping Gazans in a concentration camp?
Bells
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How dare they attempt to defend themselves!
You are saying that their attempts to defend themselves is somehow immoral? You're kidding me right?
I am very well aware of what premeditation means. What of Israel's premeditation to storm ships illegally and do so fully prepared to kill men, women and children who were peace activists?
I saw no Jew hating event. What I saw were people of all faiths, including Jews, heading to break a blockade that the world community has been demanding be lifted due to the pain and suffering it is causing unnecessarily.
What threat against Jews were those peace activists posing Geoff? How does one pose a threat to Jews when one attempts to feed and provide materials to build shelter to Palestinians?
You're too concerned about singing and people defending themselves and acting as if it is bad to defend one's self against armed aggressors who are attacking you illegally, than you are with the fact that Israel sent combat troops to storm a ship and kill people... and what do you do? You are angry that the activists used what they had on hand to defend themselves.
Had they been Jew hating and frothing themselves up for violence, they'd have had better weapons than a couple of metal pipes and slingshots with marbles and a pocket knife or kitchen knife, not to mention plastic chairs. Or did that fact escape you? Had they been Jew jating and frothing as you are claiming, they would have had actual real weapons than a couple of metal pipes, a sling shot and some marbles and plastic chairs.. In that they'd have actual real weapons if it was premeditated.. Do you get that now?
depends on the school of thought one subscribes too I guess
I'm waiting to see what the Turks do, with the killing of Turkish civilians in international waters, they can legally bring a case against Israel in the international court. Even the boarding of the ships without permission from the ships captain constitutes an act of piracy.
But legalities aside, I think everyone who opposes the blockade in Gaza should support sending more aid. As Naomi Klein says the only recourse to collective punishment is collective action.
You are being pedantic.
This is not about metaphysics, this is about cold hard aggression by a known aggressive regime with a track record of similar aggressions and a long history of grave human rights abuses. And we are discussing this incident and not the evils of the world at large. :m:
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Er, "defend" themselves by planning a lynch mob at a hatefest before having undergone any fire from anyone. If that happened.
That's the thing: I just don't believe you. I don't think you understand the term. You're just referencing it now. I've watched the vids and haven't seen any Israeli firing first, which you keep claiming; only a mob swirling around on deck, attacking rapelling troops with lethal weapons. Do you actually have anything like this? It would go a long way towards re-establishing your credibility.
What, not even a "singalong"? But I thought you implied you had seen that. So which are you lying about: having seen it, or not having seen it?
Intellectual disconnect isn't going to solve your problems here, Bells? Maybe you don't mind so much that one of the sheikhs on board is a Western Wall conspiracy theorist, but it does have a certain ring, coupled with the hate-fest and the events of the actual boarding. Do you actually think anyone at all would have been killed if the "passengers" hadn't attacked the Israelis in a mob? Do you get the fact that it's better media-wise if they don't have decent weapons? Because if all they use is "iron-ish sticks"
and knives and the odd Molotov, then they'll have a happy array of mindless excuse-makers. Not that I'm accusing you of mindlessness.
Bells
Staff member
They will only know what they are told. At the moment, we are only hearing Israel's version of events and we are only seeing the video's they have released. The people on the ships have been detained and no one has been allowed to speak to them.
Which is interesting, in and of itself, isn't it?
After all, if Israel has done nothing wrong, they would allow the independent observers who were on the ships, as well as the journalists who were on the ships to describe the events from their perspective. But they aren't.
Why would we sink to the level of the aggressor? No, send more aid, if they attack the ships and kill the activists, send more ships, more activists. Then more, then even more. Let them kill to defend their atrocities.
Non-violent non-cooperation. It is the only way to defeat the Israeli policy.
I have to respectfully disagree. We've tried co-operation, and it hasn't worked. War is the only final solution to the Israel problem.
You cannot change a mind by silencing it. I think what Israel needs is a study in legitimate noncooperation. BDS, people standing up to the regime and refusing to back down. Let them do what they will. It is provocation only if you justify oppression.
And so...we just lay down and let them roll over us? No thanks.
We ought to respond to any aggression on their behalf with an aggression tenfold in force.
It is foolish to use weapons when silence will suffice
Ironically Burston's article today echoes the same sentiments:
And he is right. I bet Hamas will adopt the same strategy as will Hezbullah. Nothing affects the status quo like public perception.
Israel did not sign the Law of the Sea Convention, so any laws it states...Israel is not held responsible to.
It doesn't matter whether Israel is a signatory to the Law of the Sea Convention or not. Treaties are only one way that international law is made. The other way, equally important, is customary international norms that acquire the full force of international law over time due to the virtually universal adherence to those norms of many nations. The Law of the Sea certainly qualifies as a set of customary international norms.
Neither Israel nor any other nation can worm its way out of flouting the accepted law of the sea using the excuse that it hasn't signed a treaty.
taking a life should be avoided at all costs. killing should only be done if their is no other way
Like in this situation.
true the resolution of this conflict demands armed conflict and killing but nothing nearing a nuclear strike.
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