Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Did you see the long list I posted of the other precedents in situations like this where the Israeli army are pitted against peace activists?
Zionist piracy
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Did you see the long list I posted of the other precedents in situations like this where the Israeli army are pitted against peace activists?
I wonder what they have been promised in exchange. The US has become a dalal for Israel paying out to silence people on its misdeeds
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
I asked myself the exact same question!!!!
I mean if it were up to the Turkish people there would be hell to pay. I wonder how they are going to explain themselves to their own people.
I doubt that there is any direct contact between Israel and Turkey (though I could be wrong). I think this is just the US brokering on Israel's behalf, a kind of damage control.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
@Sam
I have been looking for the reactions of Israeli citizens on this flotilla incident but haven't found any on youtube or haven't been able to find any articles. Do you know how this is being received on the ground? Is there any sign of dissatisfaction with Netanyahu?
I have been looking for the reactions of Israeli citizens on this flotilla incident but haven't found any on youtube or haven't been able to find any articles. Do you know how this is being received on the ground? Is there any sign of dissatisfaction with Netanyahu?
Bells
Staff member
Classy..
Which makes this an even bigger fiasco for Israel at the moment. We know that at least the Australian journalists had all of their equipment confiscated, which includes a recording of the storming of the boats.Sam said:
We can probably safely assume that the other journalists travelling with the flotilla have had the same thing happen to them.
So what Israel now has is over 600 people they have detained, many of them are reporters, who will be able to report everything they experience when they are released. Thus far, Israel has imposed a blanket on communicating with those detained. The two Australian journalists and the other Australians on the boats have been processed at the detention centre, so we can assume they have not opted to accept Israel's offer of being deported for being in Israel illegally.
So we are going to have over 600 people, most of whom are foreign nationals, and some are Jews from Israel who have been either arrested and/or detained by Israel, after Israel stormed their ships in a raid that went very very badly. The detention of those passengers, peace activists mind you, will just prolongue this for Israel and make this whole situation that much more worse. For the moment, Israeli's are asking how in the hell could this have happened and the fingers are being pointed to the political hierarchy.
If they had wanted to damage Hamas by preventing those ships from entering Gaza, they have failed. Hamas is coming out of this smelling like roses and Israel like the manure needed to make roses grow to be honest.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
New York Times had this to say:
While the administration’s public response was restrained, American officials expressed dismay in private over not only the flotilla raid, with its attendant deepening of Israel’s isolation around the world, but also over the timing of the crisis, which comes just as long-delayed American-mediated indirect talks between Israelis and Palestinians were getting under way.
Some foreign policy experts said the episode highlighted the difficulty of trying to negotiate peace with the Palestinian Authority without taking into account an element often relegated to the background: how to deal with Hamas-ruled Gaza. Hamas, the Islamist organization that refuses to recognize Israel’s existence, operates independently of the Palestinian Authority and has rejected any peace talks. Gaza has repeatedly complicated Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations.
“This regrettable incident underscores that the international blockade of Gaza is not sustainable,” Martin S. Indyk, the former United States ambassador to Israel, said Monday. “It helps to stop Hamas attacks on Israelis, but seriously damages Israel’s international reputation. Our responsibility to Israel is to help them find a way out of this situation.”
The Obama administration officially supports the Gaza blockade, as the Bush administration did before it. But Mr. Obama, some aides say, has expressed strong frustration privately with the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01policy.html?hp
While the administration’s public response was restrained, American officials expressed dismay in private over not only the flotilla raid, with its attendant deepening of Israel’s isolation around the world, but also over the timing of the crisis, which comes just as long-delayed American-mediated indirect talks between Israelis and Palestinians were getting under way.
Some foreign policy experts said the episode highlighted the difficulty of trying to negotiate peace with the Palestinian Authority without taking into account an element often relegated to the background: how to deal with Hamas-ruled Gaza. Hamas, the Islamist organization that refuses to recognize Israel’s existence, operates independently of the Palestinian Authority and has rejected any peace talks. Gaza has repeatedly complicated Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations.
“This regrettable incident underscores that the international blockade of Gaza is not sustainable,” Martin S. Indyk, the former United States ambassador to Israel, said Monday. “It helps to stop Hamas attacks on Israelis, but seriously damages Israel’s international reputation. Our responsibility to Israel is to help them find a way out of this situation.”
The Obama administration officially supports the Gaza blockade, as the Bush administration did before it. But Mr. Obama, some aides say, has expressed strong frustration privately with the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01policy.html?hp
Bells
Staff member
As they were preparing for stopping the flotilla, they were telling Israelis that Israel was under attack from the flotilla ships. That was the message they gave the Israelis prior to the attack. At the moment, from what I can gather, they are asking how in the hell as they are bombarded with messages that Israel was defending itself from 6 ships with 700 peace activists who are being portrayed as being some form of terrorists. I wonder how they will take the knowledge that among those detained and arrested is a holocaust survivor, as well as Israeli Jews.. That's just coming to light in Israel's media now. The blame is being laid squarely on the political hierarchy.. My previous post has the links..
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
No I am not asking about government reaction. I mean everyday people on the ground since this has occurred. Do you know of any collection of statements or reactions from ordinary Israeli citizens?
Technically, Türkiye is America's and Israel's ally. I doubt there will be an extreme stand against both.
I haven't voted for the government and honestly I don't approve most of its policy on other issues. I am guessing uncle sam getting ready to paint it as the way he/Israel wants. It would be naive to think otherwise.
I didn't see anything about direct contact, probably we don't.
Bells
Staff member
Not seeing it reported. You might get some indication to the comments at the bottom of the articles.
And you also have to realise that the reaction will not be able to give a true indication as they were told prior to this that the flotilla was coming in and attacking Israel, in that the flotilla was a direct attack on Israel. The only footage they and the rest of the world is seeing and the only reports we are hearing is from Israel, as everyone on the ships have been effectively silenced and not allowed to have contact with anyone on the outside.
But I agree. I think it would be interesting to see what the reaction actually is. I doubt we will though.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
But don't you think it would be difficult for Turkey to keep a stable relationship with Israel? I mean how are they going to explain a compromise to their people?
You are right the US is already playing damage control.
By the way this is something different. Cartoonists reaction to the flotilla incident:
http://themoderatevoice.com/74712/w...n=Feed:+themoderatevoice+(The+Moderate+Voice)
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Why not? Israeli newspapers are generally have a more critical look at their government than the US papers and periodicals. I would have thought they would be flooded with a response. I just think we don't know where to look. Sam is pretty good at finding out what is going on in Israeli newspapers maybe she will find something. What do you say of the New York Times excerpt of the US position vis a vis Israel? I think its an honest account of how they are reacting.
Yes, of course.
But what's going to happen in extreme then?
Shall we declare war on Israel for fucks sake?! Of course not! That CANNOT happen. It's not going to happen.
I am guessing may be the government will ignore the intense protests. I don't know. My head hurts like hell and can't think staright any more. Also, that prime minister of ours is a tactless ...!
I only hope this situtaion will cool down as fast as it can.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Please tell us what its like on the ground in Turkey? What are the protesters asking for?
I would have thought that Turkey would break political ties with Israel, not declare war but its seems that the US has already convinced Turkey to tone things down.
I am with you on Israeli newspapers, but what do they know? They can only do something with it according to the knowledge they have. I personally think global communication is easier to blcok or manipulate.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Can you respond to post #359?
There is always protests against Israel's war policy here. Always, it's almost a routine. It just doesn't make to the news. Of course in the last couple of days it was very intense.
What do they want? They want nothing to do with Israel. But no matter what they want, it's very naive to believe that the government will severe ties with Israel. It's stupid and worse, cannot be done.
I wish it was possible, with all my heart, but it just isn't. Because first of all, we are US' allies, period. What are we gonna do? Stand against both? That's a laughing matter and also the reason how Israel problem gotten this monstrously big in the first place.
US will continue to support Israel's actions and there isn't anyone powerful enough to stand up to US. It's very simple.
All I can think that there will be a silent, dormant period between two countries until again something breaks up.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Thanks for the response. It almost sounds like the problem between Americans who want their government to disassociate with Israel and the way they are ignored by the government. It seems there is no way to adequately address the issue, or maybe there isn't a large enough support to pressure the government.
Ok, yes exactly.
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