Young Iraqis leaving Islam?

I still think faith should be a part of society in order to set a moral code and optimism. Otherwise, the liberals will just get their way and ruin society.
However, I am opposed to extremism. So, I really don't know what to think of this........I would've been far more happy if they had said "We know that they lie about God's word, and we are going to worship our interpretation" or something along that lines.
In the West this resulted in the Protestant movement and ultimately freedom from Religious rule. It took a few century's.

Maybe there'll be a Protestant movement in Iraq?

Actually, I'm sure Religions like Baha'i could make big inroads if they had the freedom to evangelize Iraqis.
 
I qualified the statement with it seems

The sample size was all of 40.

As for Iran, that's just what Reza says. Young people would rather listen to American Pop and drink and have sex than worship on God. You know, like normal kids everywhere.

Of course. :rolleyes:

If Reza says it, it cannot be false. Do all Iranians also secretly desire to be Reza, by any chance?
 
bahaism is, or atleast, was a part of Islam for some time. Its just another stream Shia Islam, the teachings about the Bab etc. And the reason Bahaism will never convert Muslims is because Bahaullah claimed divinity for himself.
 
No I don't think I'm superior. I just have information they don't. Also, it may be true - it's certainly not easy to learn a second language after a critical age. Maybe it's the same sort of thing?


Anyway, it's hard to say what they really want. Perhaps they want to live in a country with a secular government and Islamic culture? I don't think these guys are in the mind to put their trust in religious leader as politicians! That much seemed to come across to me. They don't trust the religious leaders and they don't trust their politicians either.

Trust me, Iraqis dont trust anyone nowadays :( All the demonstrations in the world could not avert their mass slaughter
 
In the West this resulted in the Protestant movement and ultimately freedom from Religious rule. It took a few century's.

Maybe there'll be a Protestant movement in Iraq?

Actually, I'm sure Religions like Baha'i could make big inroads if they had the freedom to evangelize Iraqis.

Eh.....my point is, the things that are ruining tradition and society are the stupid concepts of libertarianism and immoral atheism.
 
Trust me, Iraqis dont trust anyone nowadays :( All the demonstrations in the world could not avert their mass slaughter

Have you seen or read Betrayed?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/26/070326fa_fact_packer

Don't mind Michael, he gets his knowledge of the ME from atheist Iranians. ;)

bahaism is, or atleast, was a part of Islam for some time. Its just another stream Shia Islam, the teachings about the Bab etc. And the reason Bahaism will never convert Muslims is because Bahaullah claimed divinity for himself.


Don't confuse him with unnecessary details. :D

So do you think these Iraqis will move away from the Ithanshara theology?
 
Of course. :rolleyes:

If Reza says it, it cannot be false. Do all Iranians also secretly desire to be Reza, by any chance?
Look, Reza and I definitely don't see eye to eye on many things. For example Reza erroneously thinks Jews are a race. Which is absurd - and so I told him. He also has all sorts of ideas about Jews. Like they have all this power. One day I said, God Damn Reza, if I knew Jews had so much sway I'd have converted back when I was a kid! He went blank for a moment :D Then said, that's impossible Jews are a race. I said, so what I move here to AU and tell everyone I'm a Jew - the whole place is MINE! He seriously replied - they'd find out.

Haa - I was totally joking and he was so serious.


Another point.

I said the borders for Israel should be set as they are today.
Reza said: Look mate, Israel is a cancer, they have to return to the boards of 1967 of there can not be peace.

Etc... etc... etc...

The main thing we agree on is atheism.

Michael
 
bahaism is, or atleast, was a part of Islam for some time. Its just another stream Shia Islam, the teachings about the Bab etc. And the reason Bahaism will never convert Muslims is because Bahaullah claimed divinity for himself.
Well - as an Adam. Anyway, there are a lot of Baha'i around Sydney. Nice people. They tried to convert me once :)
 
Actually, I'm sure Religions like Baha'i could make big inroads if they had the freedom to evangelize Iraqis.

Well now you're just completely fantasizing and saying whatever pops into your head. Iraqis love their religion, and they're never converting to anything else - with or without the evangelization from other faiths. They've had Islam for what, a little less than 1,400 years now? Trust me - Islam ain't going nowhere. In fact, it's bound to simply rise in numbers, just as it continuously has since its birth.

Your sample of 40 perturbed teenagers living in a misunderstood warzone is not very persuasive. Iraqis have all the freedom in the world to change their religion, just as they have in their illustrious past. There's a reason as to why they've remained Muslim.
 
Apparently even the Jews think they are a race.

The ethnicity and the religion of Judaism, the traditional faith of the Jewish nation, are strongly interrelated,

Within the world's Jewish population, which is considered a single self-identifying ethnic group, there are distinct ethnic divisions, most of which are primarily the result of geographic branching from an originating Israelite population, and subsequent independent evolutions.

Nd he's right that until very very recently (like after the formation of Israel), jews were born, not converted.
 
Yeah, but I seriously hope Jews today know that the majority of them are direct descendents from Turkic Khazars, who themselves converted to Judaism. They are certainly not a race.
 
Yeah, but I seriously hope Jews today know that the majority of them are direct descendents from Turkic Khazars, who themselves converted to Judaism. They are certainly not a race.

Jews follow matrilineal descent.
 
Kadark,

Come on Kadark, it's hardly safe to convert out of Islam.
In some countries in the ME - it's even against the law.
You know, the whole, if you are born Muslim then you're not allowed to convert to another faith thing.

Michael
 
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Nd he's right that until very very recently (like after the formation of Israel), jews were born, not converted.
I've always considered that an attractive feature of the religion.

It's an example of what happens when conversion is not coerced -it's always been possible to convert to Judaism, it's just that without evangelical pressure of some kind people don't convert to religions like that very often.

I know three converts to Judaism - two women and one man. Nothing to do with Israel, btw.
 
2000 years ago Judaism was a proselytizing religion - upwards to 1 in 5 people were Jewish in the Roman empire. Hence Christianity.


Anyway, I'm not saying it's a good thing for Iraqi's to leave Islam. But it's good that they are being critical. They now know what it would be like to live under a Theocracy. Nothing like the "good old days" yadda yadda... so maybe they'll work towards a secular democracy?
 
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I've always considered that an attractive feature of the religion.

It's an example of what happens when conversion is not coerced -it's always been possible to convert to Judaism, it's just that without evangelical pressure of some kind people don't convert to religions like that very often.

I know three converts to Judaism - two women and one man. Nothing to do with Israel, btw.

Probably, but from what I have heard, it depends on who is sponsoring you and that in itself is a major issue.

In the United States of America, Reform Judaism rejects the concept that any rules or rituals should be considered necessary for conversion to Judaism. In the late 1800s, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the official body of American Reform rabbis, formally resolved to permit the admission of converts "without any initiatory rite, ceremony, or observance whatever." (CCAR Yearbook 3 (1893), 73-95; American Reform Responsa (ARR), no. 68, at 236-237.)

Orthodox Jewish groups are not unified, and different orthodox communities may hold themselves as more strictly correct in observance than others, or consider others' religious observances of inadequate strictness and validity. As such, Orthodox rabbis often will not automatically accept each other's authority, which has led to a general reluctance in the Orthodox communities to prepare and perform conversions. The term 'Haredi' refers to communities that advocate a strict observation of traditional Jewish law.

This issue recently reached a crisis point when the (Orthodox) Chief Rabbinate of Israel changed its requirements for conversion without informing American Orthodox rabbis, and began systematically rejecting most Orthodox Jewish conversions done outside of Israel. The Chief Rabbinate of Israel began to reject all American Orthodox Jewish conversions done by any Orthodox rabbi, except those on a short list of rabbis, numbering less than fifty, some of them deceased.

Also, conversion to Judaism is irreversible.

Not all of them do. Some people just convert. There are Chinese Jews.

Thats interesting. Which province are they from?
 
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