To sum up your argument, you're basically saying that there were large ethnic and religious divides (denominationally speaking) prior to Saddam. I cannot begin to tell you how incorrect this is.
So what are you saying here Kadark? That the people living in the area that is now Iraq, when ruled under the Ottoman Monarchy were happy to live under Ottoman rule? Is that you position? If so – then why on Goddesses Earth did they choose to side with the British and fight the Ottomans?
Why?
In case you have forgotten, everybody was functioning perfectly fine in that region until a few Europeans decided to draw a imaginary lines on a map allotting land to various peoples, with no regard or consideration to the inhabitants' history, ethnicity, religion, or connection to the land.
Again, why did the people living there choose to align with the British and fight against the Ottomans?
Why?
The U.S. played a monumental role in assuring that Saddam's Ba'athist party proclaimed power, using a CIA coup to overthrow their existent government.
Yes I agree. But, so what Kadark? Every single nation on this planet meddles with everyone else. That’s a simple fact of life. You think the USA meddled with Iraq – TRY BEING RUSSIAN! The USA was constantly meddling with Russia, WAY more than Iraq.
And guess what – Saddam was also supported by Russia. Oh, and France gave Saddam fighter planes. And China signed oil and gas deals with Saddam. Etc..
And if we really really want to go back into History and talk about “The Great Game” it’s plainly obvious that every nation was manipulating every other nation.
Jesus, just look at Korea.
Has the USA meddeled in Iraqi affairs – YES.
Does this mean Iraq would be anything other than a mess now if they hadn’t – NO.
Was the USA alone? No.
Well, of course they don't truly care what the religion is of the people they're stealing from - however, it does make the process a lot easier for America's oilmen when the Iraqis are fighting each other, rather than the Americans. Does it make sense to you that the invaded Iraqis would fight each other naturally, rather than fighting the occupiers? It's simply the age-old method of divide and conquer. Have people question their own religion, question the religion of others, fund both sides unconditionally, and see the idiots destroy each other. I mean, the nation of Iraq (as we call it today) never had this kind of a hostile inner-conflict.
No here you are wrong. The USA planned to invade Iraq, topple Saddam, install another puppet government that had a New nicer USA-friendly Saddam running the show who would then pump all the oil to the USA. I am 100% sure that the idiots who run the USA had no clue as to the Sunni and Shiia and chaos that would ensure.
To suggest ANYTHING else is not only pure speculation, it doesn’t fit the USA’s modus operendi and boarders on flunky CT.
When Iraq was a part of the Ottoman Empire, how many Sunni-Shi'ite riots and massacres were there? When were the Kurds sworn enemies to the other ethnicities? It was never a problem. Funding and magnifying the power of a few insane clerics is enough to turn the attention and blame from the U.S. to the conquered Iraqis themselves.
Why did the people living in that area CHOOSE to side with the British against the Ottomans?
Why?
Sorry Kadark but history shows that the people living there wanted out from under Ottoman rule.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a man well-educated on Islam teaching what he knows to others. Perhaps you had a different approach?
Out of curiosity, do you see anything wrong with a well-educated woman teaching others (including men?).
Nope, you're too busy enjoying a society based on colonialism and "free trade" practices. :roflmao:
Yeah, SAM, that’s what I’m doing. I have my Indian maid servants right here next to me : sponge bathing me.
Please.
Free Trade is just trade without tariffs. You live in a Democracy – if you don’t like it, simply put up tariffs on American imports. Done.
If I remember correctly your Utopian Indian province where supposedly everyone was living wonderfully made much better gains as they opened up to free trade. The simple fact is there are lazy people who wrought the system – everywhere on the earth. Even in industrial Japan I see people who simply want to put their feet up and let the other people do the hard work.
America’s biggest gains were made in America because of America’s natural resources. Not because of India or China. America became rich trading with Europeans and New York became the richest city in the world over a hundred years ago.
If you want to think America suddenly became rich because of it’s exploitation of India? Please. India and the USA only recently started have major effects toward one another's economy. What about KSA – yeah, they’re obviously getting ripped off by the USA as we pay through the arse for oil. I suppose it was the USA that made China poor too oh and Russia oh and Thailand and Indonesia we tried to make Singapore and Korea and Japan and Taiwan and Hong Kong poor with our "free trade" policy but guess what - they somehow got rich.??
WEIRD HUH?
Please.
RE: Iraqis losing their faith.
Kadark, IF the two bombs that were used in suicide bombings that happened TODAY are found to have been made with the assistance of Iran what then Kadark? Is it some new conspiracy where the CIA secretly also controls the Iranians Mullahs and they use them without their knowledge to brainwash people from KSA to carry out attacks on USA solders in Iraq so that America, who is paying >$100/barrel will get cheap oil like maybe $99/barrel… ohhh wait, that’s all part of the plan. See the USA will tank it’s economy too - all to throw people off the track , you know, by paying >$100/barrel … that’ll trick em!
OR could it be that some idiot boys where taught some romantic bullshit about this fictional Arab past and "Islamic" Golden Age and think that Martyrdom will not only make them glorious but also get them a free ticket to this wonderful heaven they were also erroneously taught exists.
Michael
Does the USA meddle in Iraq - YES.
Is the USA trying to divide Shiia and Sunni - maybe.
Do many Shiia hate Sunni for a past that has absolutely nothing to do with the USA - YES. (hell even in Pakistan BEFORE 9/11 Sunni were killing Shia).
Are Iraqi's losing faith because of all the romantic bullshit they were taught - YUP. Probably not too many Iraqi kids are going to romanticize about this wondrous time when Persians rolled over for the former clients the Arabs and became good little subjects. They know all too well what people can do in the name of God.
