Young Iraqis leaving Islam?

Well it was a response to SAMs GM crops and farmers committing suicide, which i admit hardly makes sense.
 
S.A.M. said:
Okay back on topic, there are all kinds of people who leave Islam
http://towelian.wordpress.com/manifesto/
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towelie.jpg
 
Kadark, you really take this pro-Turkish thing seriously. I mean come on. They were living the good life when they were "protected" by us but idiots got greedy, wanted self determination and see what it got them!



Kadark said:
Of course Iraq would have been better off right now, because Saddam would have never seen power. Before the U.S. supported him into power, he had been shot and exiled - clearly showing he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of controlling Iraq. Abdul Qassim was adored by the Iraqis for overthrowing the British-established monarchy. There's no way the civilians would have simply allowed an amateur plan to overthrow their new government to go through. Oh, and the U.S. may not have been alone in supporting sides/sharing information in the Iran-Iraq war, but they were the only nation that legitimized Saddam's party, and sustained his power twenty years prior. The U.S. is the country of all countries that started this ongoing war. So yeah, in many important aspects of Iraq's modern history, the U.S. did act alone in damaging the nation for its own profitable means.
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This would make sense EXCEPT just before Iraq War I, Iraqis had one of the, if not the, highest standard of living in the ME. They were educated, seemingly secular, and enjoying their natural resources.

Are you going to say it was the USA that forced Iraq into Iran? Please.
Was it the USA that forced Saddam into Kuwait? Please.

Talk about tunnel vision :D

I think you're seeing Iraq through a two meter tube of Turkish nationalism???

Michael
 
Michael,

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Regardless, I've grown rather tired of this debate, so we'll call it a night, unless you have something interesting you want to discuss.
 
RE: leaving Islam.

It's common for the first generation to stick to things because, psychologically, they can look back and think, well I had things good - my childhood was good. Etc...

But, when it's all bad from childhood on up, people stop believing and start looking for something else. This could be a ripe time for a new religion in Iraq if it was accompanied with serious good progress.

Michael
 
Kadark said:
Michael,

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Regardless, I've grown rather tired of this debate, so we'll call it a night, unless you have something interesting you want to discuss.
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You must agree that Iraq, at one time, under Saddam, enjoyed high level of standard of living. That's a Historical fact.

Agreed?
Michael
 
Except for the minor detail of 500,000 children who died under sanctions.
 
S.A.M. said:
Except for the minor detail of 500,000 children who died under sanctions.
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I always thought it was much much better before Saddam.

Sanctions: couldn't Iraq get what they needed from other countries closer to them?

Like medical syringes from a neighboring country and also toilet paper, hard to believe that there wasnt a roll of toilet paper in all of Iraq. Also, that number is not realistic to claim it was due to sanctions.
 
Michael said:
RE: leaving Islam.

It's common for the first generation to stick to things because, psychologically, they can look back and think, well I had things good - my childhood was good. Etc...

But, when it's all bad from childhood on up, people stop believing and start looking for something else. This could be a ripe time for a new religion in Iraq if it was accompanied with serious good progress.

Michael
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I dont really understand what you are trying to say. Youve posted a link to how young iraqis are getting tired of the violence and are blaming some of their clerics among others and are losing respect for them. Isnt that normal? People start to hate people who they think keep supporting violence. Its happened with a lot of other leaders. This doesnt mean they are starting to leave Islam in their droves, they are just disenchanted with some of the clerics who tehy used to trust.
 
I'm talking about before that war.

Anyway, your position is the children's death due to "sanctions"?
Then why is it that when one looks at the Kurdish controlled area, where they also lived under the same sanctions, they greatly prospered?

When money was coming in hand over fist, Saddam shared the loot with the people and in general people did really good. When sanctions came in - he didn't. That's Iraqs fault - not ours.

Is it your position that China MUST trade with Taiwan? They legally can not stop trade? It's somehow their responsibility to maintain trade with Taiwan. The reality is, Americans didn't want to trade with Iraq, just as they don't want to trade with Iran. They have that right. It doesn't mean that the Russian or Indian or Chinese or French or etc... can not, just that we will not.

Why should we HAVE to trade with Iran, while they continue to elect leaders calling for the blood of Americans? That's stupid.

What next SAM, the Iranian Mullahs run out of money, squander their savings and because the USA has decided not to trade with them (aka "sanctions) then it's our fault if they suffer hardships?

Since when was it the USAs job to mandatory for us to trade with nations not friendly with us?

Michael
 
Arsalan said:
I dont really understand what you are trying to say. Youve posted a link to how young iraqis are getting tired of the violence and are blaming some of their clerics among others and are losing respect for them. Isnt that normal? People start to hate people who they think keep supporting violence. Its happened with a lot of other leaders. This doesnt mean they are starting to leave Islam in their droves, they are just disenchanted with some of the clerics who tehy used to trust.
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Yes exactly.

It means Iraqis are smartening up.

Michael
 
S.A.M. said:
Uh, you have got to be kidding.
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Is it, yes or no, the choice of the USA to not trade with another country?
It's that simple.

If we choose not to that's called "sanctions". It means, we don't want to do business with you anymore.

Michael
 
Those guys will probably be killed asap. Can't have thinking people on the SUV fuels. Like Mossadegh, better consigned to dust bins.
 
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