Forget something?
wy did jesus have to be concieved without "sin"
- Thread starter raherakthy
- Start date
Oh. I see. You fixed your "oops" post.
If humans were not born in sin, they wouldn't need Christ (therefore Christianty) to "save" them.
Christ is perfect, so acts as a carrot on a stick.
He is supposed to be the example for the way to live, but he is perfect and humans can not even come close.
They say that sinners go to Hell.
They also say that we are all born in sin.
What constitutes sin is impossible for any human to entirely avoid. Consider the Seven Deadly Sins as just one example. If you even feel lust, regardless of whether you act on those feelings, you have sinned.
Entry into Heaven requires Jesus' forgiveness of your sins.
It all makes Jesus necessary and indespensible.
It's really kind of like selling a faulty car and being the only one who knows how to fix it.
Christ is perfect, so acts as a carrot on a stick.
He is supposed to be the example for the way to live, but he is perfect and humans can not even come close.
They say that sinners go to Hell.
They also say that we are all born in sin.
What constitutes sin is impossible for any human to entirely avoid. Consider the Seven Deadly Sins as just one example. If you even feel lust, regardless of whether you act on those feelings, you have sinned.
Entry into Heaven requires Jesus' forgiveness of your sins.
It all makes Jesus necessary and indespensible.
It's really kind of like selling a faulty car and being the only one who knows how to fix it.
Oh come on! Numbers? Deuteronomy? Not exciting? I mean Wow! I was just reading the other night about... umm... errr...
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.
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Zzzzzzzzzz... Zzzzzzzzzz...
Lori,
This is out of Matt 10:
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10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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I've read this in context but I can't make heads nor tails of it from the lord of love. What does this mean? This is just one example of Jesus being almost pathologically nasty on the one hand and being nice as pie on the other. Is Jesus the lamb or a badass mofo?
This is out of Matt 10:
----------------------------
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
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I've read this in context but I can't make heads nor tails of it from the lord of love. What does this mean? This is just one example of Jesus being almost pathologically nasty on the one hand and being nice as pie on the other. Is Jesus the lamb or a badass mofo?
He is supposed to lead you to salvation by being an example, but he is perfect and that perfection is unattainable.Lori_7 said:
I agree with you.Lori_7 said:
The Bible, on the other hand, disagrees with both of us whole-heartedly...
Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:29 - And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:30 - And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 18:9 - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 23:15 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:33 - Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mark 9:43 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
James 3:6 - And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Matthew 19:24 - And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
And so on and so on and so on...
Does this come from the Bible, or is it a Lorism?Lori_7 said:
There is nothing at all with Lorisms per se, but I was under the impression this was a discussion about the Bible and standard Christian doctrine.
superluminal said:
LOL..."badass mofo". Yea, I would say that he's a little of both. Bells and I were just talking about this very thing, and you see it out here too...man, do I ever see it. I would say that this scripture is referring to how being born again and giving your life to Christ may cause conflict among you and your family members, friends, discussion board people. I get some serious animosity thrown my way for no other reason than that I say I'm a Christian or that I'm born again. Snakelord hates me for example. He says he doesn't, but I can tell...he thinks I'm going to cook his children in an oven and eat them for dinner or something...God only knows. Turns out I'm a vegetarian.
Truthfully, I feel really "weird" about my family right now. And it's a direct result of what God has done in my life recently. I know that it will be resolved, but when your family labels you with some God forsaken "fixation", and basically shuts you down/out regarding an amazing miracle, the most important thing that's ever happened to you, that means everything to you...and is not "there" for you when you need them the most...the only time I've ever really needed them actually. It's frustrating. But I love my family so much...they are such wonderful people. I know they love me very much. But their actions are consistent with those who just don't want to hear the truth about Jesus. They just don't want to know...about Him...about what's happened to me. It means too much...too consequential. I feel bad complaining...I just want to share this with them so much...but there is this "belief barrier" that makes it impossible. My dad's been really great about it, bless his heart. He really isn't familiar with the Bible or Christian beliefs, but he's listened to me and talked with me about this more than anyone. It's funny the number of times he's used the word "coincedence". Anyway, it's not their fault...it's no one's fault...it's just the way it's supposed to be right now.
Imagine if I were a muslim woman trying to come out of the closet about being a born again Jesus freak? If they were in a merciful mood, they might cut my tongue out. But I know they kill for a lot less than that.
Also, and importantly, the truth is a "sword".
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Really?
I took those passages as his way of saying he is here to call judgement down on people and you are supposed to do the same.
If someone is a hypocrite and sinner, even if that person is someone you love, you should recognize their hypocricy.
I took those passages as his way of saying he is here to call judgement down on people and you are supposed to do the same.
If someone is a hypocrite and sinner, even if that person is someone you love, you should recognize their hypocricy.
one_raven said:
The Bible also says that you shouldn't judge others. That humans aren't fit to judge each other. The truth is what it is...and the Holy Spirit reveals it to you. Truth is, everyone is a hypocrit and a sinner. You should be blessed enough to have an opportunity to learn a bit about yourself in this life, much less have the time to "counsel" others. The Holy Spirit is the Counselor that you should witness to...refer others to that want some advice.
You don't get into heaven or hell based upon your works. And your works are a direct reflection of you want. You get into heaven or hell based upon what you want.
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And about the "Lorism", it is scripturally sound that nothing is outside of God's will. Everything happens for a reason. In the end, He'll end up with a group of beings who want, and so choose to live with Him forever. And they will do so based upon what they know from experience.
raherakthy said:
no child born with sin. otherwise they should go to hell if they die. and this would be nonsense, going to hell w/o commiting any sin.
not only infants, any person who cannot differenciate good from evil is sinless. such as kids until puberty, mentally ill..
this conlict has been created by early Christinas who wrongly assumed Chris is the son of God and he died for our sins. He was the God's prophet miraculously born w/o natural father. just like Adam and Eve didnt have parents.
if every child born with sin, if they die right away who will save them from hell fire.? and millions of kids and adults died even before Jesus existed. are they going to hell becasue they didnt surrender themselves to savio Jesus?
unfortunately Christianity corrupted by VAtican and early christinas, who took God's religion to a wrong turn
babies and kids are sinless until they become adult and commit sin
best regards
YOU DON'T GO TO HELL FOR COMMITTING SIN!!!!
Everyone is born a sinner and dies a sinner. So, it's impossible that whether or not you sin determines whether you go to heaven or hell. If there was such a person who did not sin, they wouldn't need Jesus as a Saviour. Jesus is the only one who lived without sin.
It's a choice people...if you want to live in communion with God, then you go where He is...if you don't, then you go where He's not. It's THAT SIMPLE.
Everyone is born a sinner and dies a sinner. So, it's impossible that whether or not you sin determines whether you go to heaven or hell. If there was such a person who did not sin, they wouldn't need Jesus as a Saviour. Jesus is the only one who lived without sin.
It's a choice people...if you want to live in communion with God, then you go where He is...if you don't, then you go where He's not. It's THAT SIMPLE.
Hey, I'm just telling you what it says in the Bible. It doesn't say not to give a crap about sinning either...sin is obviously a big deal. Which is why God came here and offerred Himself up as a human sacrifice. Acceptance of salvation through Christ is the ONLY thing that keeps any one of us wretched self-serving assholes out of hell.