Would God be Cruel to an Innocent?

jayleew said:
This was the exception to the rule. God killed for the least or greatest offense, with prejudice. Starting at Numbers 16:30, you will read how God killed folks for . "wicked" people as you might say. The Isrealites are scared because of the spectacle, and complain about how Moses had played a part in the execution. So, God killed 14,700 Isrealites by plague for complaining. It was really a heartless act, as these people were confused, scared, and sad. It is perfectly normal for a person to feel anger towards the judge who puts their guilty son in the chair. God had no mercy in this case.
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How can you say this for sure? Let's look at this from a different viewpoint:

The evolutionary mechanism of natural selection depends on death, destruction, and violence of the strong against the weak - these things are all perfectly natural, right? On what basis, then, does an atheist judge the natural world to be horribly wrong, unfair, and unjust? The nonbeliever in God doesn't have a good basis for being outraged at injustice, which is their reason for objecting to God in the first place. If you are sure that this natural world is unjust and filled with evil, then you are assuming the reality of some extra-natural (or super-natural) standard by which to make your judgment.
 
Enmos said:
What does it matter ?
God is only righteous because he says so himself. Do you disagree ?
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I certainly do disagree

Lemme guess

You base his unrighteousness on our absence of possibility to lead a heavenly/perfect life on earth?

You have a better idea how to run the universe, and since these ideas aren't happening, it indicates that no one as righteous as yourself is actually upstairs?
 
lightgigantic said:
I certainly do disagree

Lemme guess

You base his unrighteousness on our absence of possibility to lead a heavenly/perfect life on earth?

You have a better idea how to run the universe, and since these ideas aren't happening, it indicates that no one as righteous as yourself is actually upstairs?
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You certainly do misunderstand.

Where did I say that God was unrighteous ?
If God exists he IS righteous, but only because he says so.
 
ggazoo said:
How can you say this for sure?
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Specifically which statement are you questioning?

ggazoo said:
The evolutionary mechanism of natural selection depends on death, destruction, and violence of the strong against the weak - these things are all perfectly natural, right?
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Sure.
ggazoo said:
On what basis, then, does an atheist judge the natural world to be horribly wrong, unfair, and unjust?
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I am judging a story based off of the natural world.

ggazoo said:
The nonbeliever in God doesn't have a good basis for being outraged at injustice, which is their reason for objecting to God in the first place.
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What are you saying?

The reason nonbelievers object to God's existence has nothing to do with an ideal like justice.

ggazoo said:
If you are sure that this natural world is unjust and filled with evil, then you are assuming the reality of some extra-natural (or super-natural) standard by which to make your judgment.
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I believe the world is full of good and just people, according to their own system of ethics. Everyone wants peace and harmony, but some people's idea of peace and harmony is different.
 
Enmos said:
That IS the same thing.
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If I say I am a good musician because I say so,

a) it doesn't make me a good musician
b) i would be seen as having ego problem, which would turn people of my music, even if it is good.

But if people know that I am a musician, then they can see or hear me, and make up their own minds.

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
If I say I am a good musician because I say so,

a) it doesn't make me a good musician
b) i would be seen as having ego problem, which would turn people of my music, even if it is good.

But if people know that I am a musician, then they can see or hear me, and make up their own minds.

jan.
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If you were the sole highest authority in the universe, if you would govern the entire universe because you made it, there is no one above you to challenge you. Whatever you say goes.
 
Enmos said:
If you were the sole highest authority in the universe, if you would govern the entire universe because you made it, there is no one above you to challenge you. Whatever you say goes.
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That is more accurate because you have given a reason why, and come to your own conclusion.
But to say "only because he says so" is not reprisentitive of supreme intelligence.

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
That is more accurate because you have given a reason why, and come to your own conclusion.
But to say "only because he says so" is not reprisentitive of supreme intelligence.

jan.
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It is if he is the only supreme intelligence, which must be so by definition.
 
Enmos said:
It is if he is the only supreme intelligence, which must be so by definition.
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Then as I said, he is righteousness, period, not because of the added egotistical implication, "because he says so".
If Einstein had said he will be one the greatest scientists of the 20 century, our
perception of him would probably include egotistical.

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Then as I said, he is righteousness, period, not because of the added egotistical implication, "because he says so".
If Einstein had said he will be one the greatest scientists of the 20 century, our
perception of him would probably include egotistical.

jan.
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You bringing in the ego factor does not change the fact that God would be unchallenged in every way.
If he would be righteous by our definition but he would say that he is unrighteous, he would be unrighteous no matter what we would think about it, wouldn't he ?
 
Is God egocentric?

Is an egocentric god a bad thing?

Does it matter?

Does it matter if God is cruel?

For those that do not know Christian concepts, it is a common teaching that man was created for the enjoyment of God. The whole creation story is his story and mankind plays an insignificant role the the grand scheme of things. At the same time, God loves everyone and wants a relationship with every person.

What it all boils down to is that if you are a Christian, you must be focused on the worship of God and that it is all about God, and it is what God wants. And, it says that God is jealous, over and over in the Bible. That is how badly that he wants all your attention, all the time.

I can understand how some people would reject that with extreme prejudice. Personally, would submit to a creator god if it were real, no matter what kind of character it had, out of respect for the creator. Many Christians have a slightly askew idea about how majestic the Bible really declares God to be. They are truly to be as sheep. They are willing to take the part where God fits into their picture, but anything outside that, regardless of it is scriptural or not, it is not the truth.
 
Enmos said:
You bringing in the ego factor does not change the fact that God would be unchallenged in every way.
If he would be righteous by our definition but he would say that he is unrighteous, he would be unrighteous no matter what we would think about it, wouldn't he ?
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Maybe so, but that isn't "purely because he says so".

jan.
 
tnerb said:
This is not christian questions. More, realistic questions regarding "the bible" and "hatred" from the people to "the god".

Now clearly as I've said before, God is in this universe. He's nowhere else right?

Well anyways, if a innocent is considering "God", and considers something of his, and doesn't like it. Would that person suffer because of it.

thoughts? comments.
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well certainly ADAM and EVE did

and as a consequence , apparently , so does the whole of Humanity according to the bible
 
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