Will the real Jesus please stand up?

By that logic humans should not study history and just assume that nothing is accurate but that would be kind of stupid. You have to remember that there was a time before video.
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M*W: No, you're kidding me, right?

There was a time, even before I was born, where ancient nomads wondered by night and rested in the heat of the day. And they watched at night at all the stars and planets that guided them. As they watched, they gave names to the stars and connected them like shining dots in the sky. And they created personalities to these stars, and they came to believe these sky beings somehow controlled every aspect of their lives. The visions of these stars created many godly myths that trickled down through the ages. As they watched the night skies, it was a form of ancient entertainment, like video games are today.
 
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M*W: No, you're kidding me, right?

There was a time, even before I was born, where ancient nomads wondered by night and rested in the heat of the day. And they watched at night at all the stars and planets that guided them. As they watched, they gave names to the stars and connected them like shining dots in the sky. And they created personalities to these stars, and they came to believe these sky beings somehow controlled every aspect of their lives. The visions of these stars created many godly myths that trickled down through the ages. As they watched the night skies, it was a form of ancient entertainment, like video games are today.

That is common knowledge. Although not really like a video game.
 
That is a miracle M*W. All those similarities were discovered after 1970.

Let me ask you, who is "BUDDIAH – INDIA: Born of the Virgin Maya on December 25"
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M*W: Just because I posted websites, I am not familiar with everything on those websites. They were for references only. Regarda Buddha, there are others on this forum who can answer your questions, or you can do your own web search. I can't answer absolutely everything without relying on the Internet.
 
It's history and it's a document, how can you not believe this? It's not a question of belief, it is a simple fact.
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M*W: Dave, there was a time I was a christian, and I believed the bible over everything else. Also, I was more or less prohibited from reading anything that was not sanctioned by the pope. I spent my time in a catholic library reading everything I could about christianity. So, you would have had to know me way back then to know where I have come from in regard to my religious education (I was a teacher of religious education at that time). And please don't discount my religious education because it was catholic. It was decidedly a christian education.

Now, I'm an atheist, but I have not forgotten what the bible said. I understand when and why it was written, and I know what changes the meanings of what the bible says. To a christian, the NT is infallible fact. I have been able to see the bible for what it is, because I am no longer a fearing christian. I am also not afraid to speak the truth, because I know there is no consequence to my doing so. I won't be hanged nor burned at the stake nor forbidden to write about what I have learned about Jesus, the bible, and christianity. I also understand that at one time you and I would have been on the same page, but that now we are not. I do not fault you for your failure to see the truth. You haven't been exposed to the truth, so you are in another place (the place I escaped from). I understand your fear and the rejection you would experience from your peers and family. They probably don't know you have come to an atheist website. I believe you must have a curiosity about atheism, or at least an interest in other religions, to come to a website like Sciforums.

No one can force atheism upon you. It doesn't work like that. I fought off the truth I was finding out about when I was a christian. The bible was the only source of information I would allow myself to read. I was born and raised in the bible belt, so christianity was everywhere.

Atheism is something one embraces when they've reached an understanding of what religion is and what religoin is not. You know you've come a long way from christianity when you look at those people closest to you and you see them as believing in something that you've found out the truth about. That's when you know you are not a christian. There is something different about the way you see these people. Then you begin to realize they believe in lies when you've found the truth. That's when you have this terrible burden lifted off you. By this time, it's going to be pretty obvious that your family and peers see you differently, and this can be scary for you. This is when your family and peers try to re-educate you. But you will stand your ground, and you may be a big disappointment to them. But you can't let them hold you down. There is no rush to atheism. It takes years and years to come about.

Right now you believe the bible is "simple fact," but you are still in that mind-control mode that christianity traps you with. Are you really sure you like the idea of having your mind controlled by something so questionable?
 
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apperantly MW you have done ALOT of research regarding religion..

but the most basic question remains..

why..

how can i communicate this.

i believe in god..i have come to this belief not because of any church or christian. i have always questioned the motives of those types of ppl.


i have read the bible and attend church not because i have to, i attend to share what i believe to be true and to challenge others to not 'do as your told'

i always believed the bible to be a guide book not a rule book..because of the very last verse in the bible it called into question the accuracy/validaty(not the words i am looking for.unsure what word fits best here) of the bible,as i have said i have read it and found many passages that have helped me through life,it does not matter to me whether it is true or not..to me it has relevant advice to some situations in my life (yes there are some chapters in L.ron Hubbards book dianetics that have helped me also..)i tend not to throw the baby out with the bathwater..i can find good in all things..(and bad but i try not to focus too much on that(i said TRY!))

the way the world treats a person is to point fingers at you and say 'this is whats wrong with you'..i have found that SOME churches avoid this.it is in these types of churches that i have found god to be working in..

in my opinion you have a limited experiance with churches, it seems you have never found the right church, you have only found the pretentious ones, the ones pretending to be holier that thou..

and because of your experiance you have dedicated your focus on hating all things christian..you have neglected to find the good in it..just because hitler was bad doesn't mean all germans are..

have you ever listened to Dr. Dobsen's focus on the family?
have you ever heard any of that type of advice coming from a non-christian?
you may answer yes, but then i will say check the numbers..how many of those are christian and how many non-christians give that sort of advice?

your posts here in this thread is interesting, i look forward to reading more..it still won't make any differance to me, except to give me more data to back up what i think god is about, and as you have seen i do not always agree with what christianity says god is about..there has got to be more to god than that one little book says..

I believe because i choose to believe not because i am afraid of the alternative..

i think we are both the same in the one issue of the church trying to control ppl..you are on the atheist side of that arguement i am on the theist side of it..i also do not beleive the church should be like that, god gives us the ability to choose, by what right do some pastors have to take that away from us..
 
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I also understand that at one time you and I would have been on the same page, but that now we are not. I do not fault you for your failure to see the truth.

And the truth is?

You haven't been exposed to the truth, so you are in another place (the place I escaped from). I understand your fear and the rejection you would experience from your peers and family. They probably don't know you have come to an atheist website. I believe you must have a curiosity about atheism, or at least an interest in other religions, to come to a website like Sciforums.

I assume the truth is found in them powerful web pages on the website you linked earlier?

Thanks for sharing, as it must be tough being stuck in a hard place and a rock.
 
At the very least someone should read their own links before they flood.

M*W: Just because I posted websites, I am not familiar with everything on those websites. They were for references only. Regarda Buddha, there are others on this forum who can answer your questions, or you can do your own web search. I can't answer absolutely everything without relying on the Internet.

For one thing the links are all basically the same because they all copy from each other.

Here is the question i asked M*W:

Let me ask you, who is "BUDDIAH – INDIA: Born of the Virgin Maya on December 25"

I am assuming it is this Buddha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

I dont see many similarities but then it is also obvious that someone would have known if there were because it is and was widely known religion so someone would have caught on.

Another one is this chap below:


Does not look all human to me though.
 
And the truth is?
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M*W: Well, you're not paying attention. The truth you believe in is only concerning the past 2000 years. The truth as I see it goes all the way back to the beginning of human understanding of their place in the universe (such as it was in the beginning). I say that what you and I both believe are simply myths.

I assume the truth is found in them powerful web pages on the website you linked earlier?
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M*W: No, not entirely. I just found a few websites out of convenience , so I didn't have to get up and about on my bad leg. There are also books and other documentation on any number of the things I have posted. What I'm trying to tell you is that the bible is not infallible, and it is not the word of a god. I understand you deny this, but that is because you won't read anything extra-biblical yourself or you don't read it with an open mind.

A question: Now that you've read these websites, what do you think about all the other born of virgins, died and resurrected god-beings that were mentioned? Do you say this is true or not true? What if history refutes what you believe?
 
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M*W: Well, you're not paying attention. The truth you believe in is only concerning the past 2000 years. The truth as I see it goes all the way back to the beginning of human understanding of their place in the universe (such as it was in the beginning). I say that what you and I both believe are simply myths.

Read what I *think* in the other thread we have been discussing in, it's far out and should change your opinion of where I stand.

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M*W: No, not entirely. I just found a few websites out of convenience , so I didn't have to get up and about on my bad leg. There are also books and other documentation on any number of the things I have posted. What I'm trying to tell you is that the bible is not infallible, and it is not the word of a god. I understand you deny this, but that is because you won't read anything extra-biblical yourself or you don't read it with an open mind.

A question: Now that you've read these websites, what do you think about all the other born of virgins, died and resurrected god-beings that were mentioned? Do you say this is true or not true? What if history refutes what you believe?

I *think* they might be true too.
 
They didn't have the internet then.
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M*W: You're right. They had scribes who wrote on parchment scrolls that were subject to human error. Maybe someday an archeologist will find a parchment scroll that was written, or dictated to a scribe, by Jesus himself. As yet, nothing has been found to prove Jesus existed. Everything that has been found to date offers no proof.

Side note: If Jesus was born in a time the Romans kept detailed records of vital statistics (births, deaths, land of birth, etc.), for census and taxation purposess, why is there no record of Jesus's birth, death or resurrection, or home of record on the Roman census records?
 
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M*W: You're right. They had scribes who wrote on parchment scrolls that were subject to human error. Maybe someday an archeologist will find a parchment scroll that was written, or dictated to a scribe, by Jesus himself. As yet, nothing has been found to prove Jesus existed. Everything that has been found to date offers no proof.

Side note: If Jesus was born in a time the Romans kept detailed records of vital statistics (births, deaths, land of birth, etc.), for census and taxation purposess, why is there no record of Jesus's birth, death or resurrection, or home of record on the Roman census records?

hmmm who is getting defensive now?

Maybe one day archeologist's will find the person who created the first website that promoted the age of aquarius? Stranger things have happened...

Now you're basically asking for Jesus' birth certificate, hell I can't find mine...
 
The Gnostic Society Library
The Gospel of Thomas
.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
.

What I find interesting about this particular Gnostic Gospel is that it consists of nothing but the spoken words of the Biblical Jesus. A lot of the quotes from this ancient text can be found in the Bible (with slightly different translations) but there are also things that you will not find in the Bible. Those are the real eye openers and it's no suprize to me that they were somehow left out. Just look who the original author was. I think this shows (independent from the Bible) that the Jesus of the new testament truly existed as a single person and that the Bible misrepresents his philosophical teachings. The only reason I can think of for The Church to leave so many of Jesus's words out of the new testament is because those words did not fall in line with their own philosophies.
I agree it's evidence that a particular Jesus existed (along with many others I'm sure). I like the gnostic text where the Goddess Sophia punishes Jehovah by castration for the crime of tricking humans into worshiping only him. Greek Orthodox still hold Sophia in high regard. Not as a Goddess, but, nevertheless still in high regard. Of course, back then, people who could read weren't as stupid as the people who are literate today. They understood that these stories were meant to taken with a grain of salt.
 
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