Will Christians ever express remorse for "witch" burning?

[Woody]

SL,

Lol, you and your demons. Grow up wouldya?

It's not me and it's not my demons. You haven't learned ..yet (should I expect you to?). Must I repeat. I am a fundamentalist. I believe the bible is literal in the context of the language and culture of the day it was written. The bible says Jesus and the apostles cast out demons. Therefore, I believe that demon possession occurs (like any other fundamentalist -- not just me). I know preachers that have performed the exorcisms. It is no LOL laughing matter I assure you. Perhaps you have some growing up to do rather than mocking human pain and suffering.

By the way, the patients are typically fully recovered after the excorcism is performed. I know if I challenge you on this you will demand names, etc., as though it's all a fairy tale. I don't have to prove anything to you. What do I win for going to the time and trouble? And it will all be refuted anyway. So go ahead and call demon possession a mental disorder -- that is partly true.

 

[SnakeLord]

It's not me and it's not my demons. You haven't learned ..yet (should I expect you to?)

Is there a university where one can go and do a degree in demonology?

Must I repeat. I am a fundamentalist

And for some bizarre reason, you seem proud of that.

I know preachers that have performed the exorcisms. It is no LOL laughing matter I assure you.

Just a quick point, but your assurances aren't worth anything.

Perhaps you have some growing up to do rather than mocking human pain and suffering.

Sorry, where did I mock human pain and suffering?

By the way, the patients are typically fully recovered after the excorcism is performed. I know if I challenge you on this you will demand names, etc., as though it's all a fairy tale.

You're telling me I shouldn't ask for evidence?

I don't have to prove anything to you

Certainly not, but then don't pull that puzzled look when nobody takes you seriously.

What do I win for going to the time and trouble?

Didn't realise it was a competition. Perhaps you should change your attitude from expecting reward, to just doing things out of courtesy. What a shining example of christianity you are.

So go ahead and call demon possession a mental disorder

Where did I do that?

 

[Woody]

SL said:

Is there a university where one can go and do a degree in demonology?

I don't know about a degree in demonology, but most christian preachers have covered that subject pretty well in their divinity curriculum.

Certainly not, but then don't pull that puzzled look when nobody takes you seriously.

Then why do you inquire about it? Adstar knows what I'm talking about. Why should we take you seriously?

Where did I do that?

So what is your explanation of a person that is "supposedly demon possessed" if it's not a mental disorder?

By the way, whatever became of the guy on this forum that was experimenting with near death experiences? You and Skinwalker were interested in his experiment.

 

[snake river rufus]

Have we established just how many witches were burned in the new world? for some reason I was thinking the number was very small. six is sticking in my mind for some reason.

 

[SnakeLord]

I don't know about a degree in demonology, but most christian preachers have covered that subject pretty well in their divinity curriculum

And how exactly is the subject covered? Do they pick up an old book and start reading, do the pupils get to see a bonefide demon - ask it questions/dissect it etc?

Then why do you inquire about it?

All in the hopes that one day someone can provide something of substance.

So what is your explanation of a person that is "supposedly demon possessed" if it's not a mental disorder?

For some it is merely a simple answer. They see something bad and need to put a face to it, need to categorise. It's quite common for humans to do that.

So, now would you like to apologise for trying to make out that I said things, or thought things that I did not? (You've done that several times now, and it's rude).

By the way, whatever became of the guy on this forum that was experimenting with near death experiences? You and Skinwalker were interested in his experiment.

1) I fail to see the relevance.

2) From what I recall, I wouldn't say I was "interested" in his 'experiment'. If memory serves me correctly I merely explained to him what NDE's are, and told him his experiments were a waste of time.

3) Why are you asking me? I'm not Inspector Morse.

 

[Woody]

SL said

And how exactly is the subject covered? Do they pick up an old book and start reading, do the pupils get to see a bonefide demon - ask it questions/dissect it etc?

It's taught using a text approach, the same way history is taught.

I did a web search, and came up with at least one divinity curriculum where it is required. I'm too lazy to keep searching for you.

All in the hopes that one day someone can provide something of substance.

So you have an inkling that perhaps it possibly could be true?

For some it is merely a simple answer. They see something bad and need to put a face to it, need to categorise. It's quite common for humans to do that.

So do you have a name for the odd obsession these people have that are supposedly "demon possessed" -- characteristics include obsession over dead humans (as the maniac at ghadarra), compulsize cursing especially regarding Jesus and the holy spirit, bleeding from the mouth with no apparant injury, speaking in a variety of voices and strange dialects, memory lapses, extreme muscular strength, split personality, uncontrollable violent hostility when bible verses are read to them especially regarding the crucifiction and the blood of Jesus Christ. Surely there must be a name for this behavior disorder.

So, now would you like to apologise for trying to make out that I said things, or thought things that I did not? (You've done that several times now, and it's rude).

ok, fair enough, I apologize. And, I don't think demon possession is something to laugh about -- no more than cancer, or suicide. I was somewhat offended myself. I take it that you're laughing at the notion that someone could in reality "be possessed by a demon" rather than laughing at their sad state of affairs -- surely you didn't mean it that way!

Why are you asking me? I'm not Inspector Morse.

I wondered if the guy killed himself trying the NDE experiments. I hope not.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Have we established just how many witches were burned in the new world? for some reason I was thinking the number was very small. six is sticking in my mind for some reason.

*************
M*W: Some nine million women were murdered, not including some men, homosexuals, gypsies and such. This was considerably more than in the holocaust.

 

[snake river rufus]

*************
M*W: Some nine million women were murdered, not including some men, homosexuals, gypsies and such. This was considerably more than in the holocaust.

9 million? in the new world? I know that the xians have a lot to answer for throughout history, but that seems a lot.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

9 million? in the new world? I know that the xians have a lot to answer for throughout history, but that seems a lot.

*************
M*W: Yes, nine million in the new world. Christians will never be able to atone for that. Sorry to burst your bubble, but nine million innocent girls, women and grandmothers, were burned at the stake or drowned by the patriarchy, but they didn't get me, nine million and one.

 

[Woody]

*************
M*W: Yes, nine million in the new world. Christians will never be able to atone for that. Sorry to burst your bubble, but nine million innocent girls, women and grandmothers, were burned at the stake or drowned by the patriarchy, but they didn't get me, nine million and one.

Was this like part of the Grand Inquisition?

Here is an excerpt from witchhunt

"At the height of the Great Hunt (1567–1640) one half of all witchcraft cases brought before church courts were dismissed for lack of evidence. No torture was used, and the accused could clear himself by providing four to eight "compurgators", people who were willing to swear that he wasn't a witch. Only 21% of the cases ended with convictions, and the Church did not impose any kind of corporal or capital punishment."

However, most witch trials were held before secular courts, not church courts, and the secular courts were decidedly less scrupulous in their methods.

So the godless secular courts are to blame-- SEE -- that's what happens when people aren't following Jesus -- they burn withces. Hear ye, hear ye! Secularism is guilty of witch burning.

Yester-year 9 million witches, today 40 million unborn babies dead in the U.S. alone -- and secular courts are to blame. Yes indeed --MW your finger points at you.


This from the salem witch-hunt:

These women were charged with witchcraft on March 1 and put in prison. Other accusations followed: Dorcas Good (four-year-old daughter of Sarah Good), Rebecca Nurse (a bedridden grandmother of saintly reputation), Abigail Hobbs, Deliverance Hobbs, Martha Corey, and Elizabeth and John Proctor. As the number of accusations grew, the jail populations of Salem, Boston, and surrounding areas swelled, and a new problem surfaced: Without a legitimate form of government, there was no way to try these women. None of them were tried until late May, when Governor Phips arrived and instituted a Court of Oyer and Terminer (to "hear and determine"). By then, Sarah Osborne had died in jail without a trial, as had Sarah Good's newborn baby girl, and many others were ill; there were perhaps 80 people in jail awaiting trial.

Though his refusal to plead is often explained as a way of preventing his possessions from being confiscated by the state, this is not true; the possessions of convicted witches were often confiscated, and possessions of persons accused but not convicted were confiscated before a trial

Yep-- look who gets the money -- the state. How about a little separation of church and state somebody?

Witch-hunts are odviously another government run fiasco.

 

[iam]

Was this like part of the Grand Inquisition?

Hear is an excerpt from witchhunt


So the godless secular courts are to blame-- SEE -- that's what happens when people aren't following Jesus -- they burn withces. Hear ye, hear ye! Secularism is guilty of witch burning.

Yester-year 9 million witches, today 40 million unborn babies dead in the U.S. alone -- and secular courts are to blame. Yes indeed --MW your finger points at you.

It wasn't secularism that started the witch hunts or the spanish inquisition...infinity... The finger points right back atcha.

 

[Woody]

It wasn't secularism that started the witch hunts or the spanish inquisition...infinity... The finger points right back atcha.

From the wiki:

As shown by the scholar Max Dashu, the medieval concept of a witch began to develop already in pre-Christian times, as its elements can be found in the Roman cult of Bacchanalias, especially when led by Paculla Annia, and in the Roman mythological creature of strix.

Witch-hunts started before christianity. The finger points right back atcha.

 

[iam]

From the wiki:



Witch-hunts started before christianity. The finger points right back atcha.

Thats a minor technical flaw and is a moot point. Why, woody? We're not really arguing "where" it originated are we? Christianity EMBRACED it. The finger points back at you again. So what have you proven? That christians are innocent?? NO. They not only embraced the concept but ran with it full-force. Who is the guilty? Buddhism originated in India but found full-blown prominence in Asia. Does that mean therefore there are no buddhists in asia even if they adhere and practice the ideology? You can take this as a rhetorical question as the answer is obvious.

 

[Humanologist]

If your religion was responsible for killing then U should either Apologise or disband that religion and become Atheist.

 

[Woody]

Thats a minor technical flaw and is a moot point. Why, woody? We're not really arguing "where" it originated are we? Christianity EMBRACED it. The finger points back at you again.

Show me in the bible where Jesus embraced witch-burning. Jesus is the first christian. Is he supposed to apologize now?

Secularists PERFORMED the executions, and they used religion as their excuse. They wanted to blame other people for their own problems, and hence they picked out someone they didn't like, and called them a witch. Read the history books. If you are a secularist then Finger's atcha dude.

 

[Woody]

If your religion was responsible for killing then U should either Apologise or disband that religion and become Atheist.

That's the problem as I see it, christianity isn't responsible, because the witchburnings were ordered by and conducted by the secular system of government.


Perhaps secularists should apologize to me because some of my christian brethren were burned at the stake as witches and heretics by secularists, using the name of "christianity" as a worthless excuse for justifying their sordid deeds.

If you are a liberal "pro-choice" advocate perhaps you should apologize for the 40 million unborn infants that have been murdered in the USA in your own lifetime -- anyone that approves of abortion is guilty of it whether they performed one or not.

It's the same old story -- an innocent person loses their life because of the misdeeds of someone else without any accountability. Judgement day will come, Jesus will be the judge, and He will render justice according to what people did in their lifetime. The bible I believe in says that anyway.

 

[snake river rufus]

Show me in the bible where Jesus embraced witch-burning. Jesus is the first christian. Is he supposed to apologize now?

Secularists PERFORMED the executions, and they used religion as their excuse. They wanted to blame other people for their own problems, and hence they picked out someone they didn't like, and called them a witch. Read the history books. If you are a secularist then Finger's atcha dude.

No. xians used the secularist courts to perform executions.

 

[Woody]

No. xians used the secularist courts to perform executions.

No, the churches used the church for their own witch trials, and no torture was administered nor capital punishment executed.

The secular courts were interested in the torture and such.

In the Salem trials, the government seized the property of the supposed witches. They odviously had a vested interest in a conviction.

If you really want to know what caused people to do these things -- it's the depravity of human nature -- blaming someone else for one's own faults, and seizing upon the opportunity for personal financial gain at the demise of someone else. In other words "moral corruption."

Jesus came to earth to bring mankind a "spiritual nature" that is better than human nature. Accountability began with Jesus, and he lived up to every dot and tittle of the old testament law -- something that nobody else has been able to do.

 

[cole grey]

If you are a liberal "pro-choice" advocate perhaps you should apologize for the 40 million unborn infants that have been murdered in the USA in your own lifetime -- anyone that approves of abortion is guilty of it whether they performed one or not.

Having no law prohibiting an action does not make the government guilty of that action. There is no law against pre-marital sex where ever you live, yet you probably consider it a wrong action - you are guilty of premarital sex by your own logic. Or else you are a complete maniac and would want a law against per-marital sex enacted. Sorry, the person who does the act is responsible for the act. I am not accountable for other people's sins.

P.S. i hope that near death experiment thing was a joke, or thought experiment - I think it was.

 

[Woody]

Having no law prohibiting an action does not make the government guilty of that action. There is no law against pre-marital sex whereever you live, yet you probably consider it a wrong action - you are guilty of premarital sex by your own logic. Or else you are a complete maniac and would want a law against per-marital sex enacted. Sorry, the person who does the act is responsible for the act. I am not accountable for other people's sins.

P.S. i hope that near death experiment thing was a joke, or thought experiment - I think it was.

Cole, you may disagree, but a person that consents to an action is just as morally guilty as the person that commits it. This is biblical. The Supreme Court consented to abortion with their decision on Row v. Wade. Hence they are morally accountable for the consequence of their decision. That can't walk away from it, because they decided it was "right" for a person to have an abortion. They made the decision for 40 million babies that were never given a choice.

By the way, I don't consent to pre-marital sex, and I hope my daughter stays out of it.