Shit, looks like my statement at the beginning was false...
Why..
- Thread starter SnakeLord
- Start date
Let's take Santa instead of Bigfoot (since Bigfoot to my view is possible while I don't think Santa is possible).
I don't think Santa is possible because reindeers don't fly, slades neither, there's not enough time to travel to every single home in 24 hours. I don't believe in Santa because I haven't found anything true about him.
Though Santa does exist on another level, in our imagination and in this form of existance he is allowed to travel to every home because fathers take on the role of santa as a image of our imagination. But Santa needs our imagination to exist, God doesn't.
On the same reasoning I believe in God because there are alot of insights to get from the bible by believing in Him. This shows that God at least are beyond my understanding (since I constantly learn something new about Him) even clarifies the preveious view I had on Him so that it becomes even better.
I have found many reasons to believe in God, while I haven't found any to believe in Santa. I've also seen some of the situations I've experianced being portraited in the Bible which gives more reasons to believe in Him.
To me, God is more real than Santa. Also God has a original nature, while Santa (or Bigfoot) hasn't, God is a unique concept.
Things that have changed my view on God, is "God is a unknown god", "God isn't God for the dead but for the living", "Gods kingdom is within us", "The son will appear like a flash of lightning and be seen from horizon to horizon - even the ones that were crucified with Him will see Him", "For God a day is like thousand years, and thousand years like a day", there are many other things that have "enlightened" me, but these statements show us that God is beyond our understanding and also, to me, shows that He is the only true God.
I don't think Santa is possible because reindeers don't fly, slades neither, there's not enough time to travel to every single home in 24 hours. I don't believe in Santa because I haven't found anything true about him.
Though Santa does exist on another level, in our imagination and in this form of existance he is allowed to travel to every home because fathers take on the role of santa as a image of our imagination. But Santa needs our imagination to exist, God doesn't.
On the same reasoning I believe in God because there are alot of insights to get from the bible by believing in Him. This shows that God at least are beyond my understanding (since I constantly learn something new about Him) even clarifies the preveious view I had on Him so that it becomes even better.
I have found many reasons to believe in God, while I haven't found any to believe in Santa. I've also seen some of the situations I've experianced being portraited in the Bible which gives more reasons to believe in Him.
To me, God is more real than Santa. Also God has a original nature, while Santa (or Bigfoot) hasn't, God is a unique concept.
Things that have changed my view on God, is "God is a unknown god", "God isn't God for the dead but for the living", "Gods kingdom is within us", "The son will appear like a flash of lightning and be seen from horizon to horizon - even the ones that were crucified with Him will see Him", "For God a day is like thousand years, and thousand years like a day", there are many other things that have "enlightened" me, but these statements show us that God is beyond our understanding and also, to me, shows that He is the only true God.
It's not so much that God wrote the bible, but that there is a complete system of belief outlined for everyone, and given the credibility of ancientness. If bigfoot had such a system of morality written about him, along with a mythology that places people in a believable context, he might be as popular as God. So, God fulfills a need in people for a comforting metaphor, while for the most part, Bigfoot does not.
neither did a god, or his so called son,spidergoat said:
though if a book, was written by bigfoot around 2k plus years ago, it would be called the bible.
@ Cyperium
Santa exists. End of story.
//Someone will be getting coal this year.. tee hee hee
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We weren't born with a knowledge of big foot/Santa. We don't see the handiwork of big foot/Santa in nature.
Very terse statements but very profound, I assure you.
Santa exists. End of story.
//Someone will be getting coal this year.. tee hee hee
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We weren't born with a knowledge of big foot/Santa. We don't see the handiwork of big foot/Santa in nature.
Very terse statements but very profound, I assure you.
You weren't born with knowledge of god either. You had to study the bible to get to know this knowledge. If we were born with knowledge of god then the question about the primitives who've never even heard of god would be moot. They'd be born with the knowledge and would act accordingly.
And the handiwork of bigfoot is exactly what is seen in nature. Or should I say footwork? That is what has led to the conjecture of his very existence.
And the handiwork of bigfoot is exactly what is seen in nature. Or should I say footwork?
That is what has led to the conjecture of his very existence.People were not born to worship anything, but needed to provide answers for that which happened around them.
Let's be honest; volcanoes, earthquakes etc are rather ominous and terrifying. If you have absolutely no knowledge of why they occur, but still wanting to give an answer - blaming it all on a vastly powerful space being, (such as the sun which has been worshipped the world over), is a natural course to take.
It's not a surprise that the 'gods' depicted throughout world cultures are also completely dependant upon the environment. In south american beliefs, the 'gods' are serpent in form, (rather like anacondas and other large size snakes that inhabit the region). If you then look towards Egypt you'll notice their gods look like vultures and crocodiles - again animals that are home to the region.
From there let us travel over to India.. Oh my, what a surprise.. their gods are elephants.
Or if we look back at the Red Indians, we'll see they had a certain affinity towards buffalo.
Then you can see things like fertility deities are always females whereas hunter deities are always male.
It is the environment and the culture that determines who and what god is, and how he acts - not vice versa.
It's like how modern day western society has "modified" jesus to such an extent whereby he's now a scrawny white man - which is clearly the daftest of notions - however it is the only way the public will buy into it. He would have no impact whatsoever if everyone imaged him as a dark skinned, curly sideburned jew.
It's not really a surprise that you'll find no original english religion. Our country has no earthquakes, tornadoes or anything of threat. We also have no dangerous animals whatsoever. This country is quite simply so risk free, there would never have been a need to devise a god. English mythology is funnily enough more focused on people; (King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc), and sprites, fairies and goblins. There is also a mass 'superstitious' culture related to birds, (especially magpies- which England is full of).
I will do a much more indepth analysis at some stage, to show just how dependant upon culture and environment a god is, and how when faced with an all-round safe country- there is no such thing as god.
Let's be honest; volcanoes, earthquakes etc are rather ominous and terrifying. If you have absolutely no knowledge of why they occur, but still wanting to give an answer - blaming it all on a vastly powerful space being, (such as the sun which has been worshipped the world over), is a natural course to take.
It's not a surprise that the 'gods' depicted throughout world cultures are also completely dependant upon the environment. In south american beliefs, the 'gods' are serpent in form, (rather like anacondas and other large size snakes that inhabit the region). If you then look towards Egypt you'll notice their gods look like vultures and crocodiles - again animals that are home to the region.
From there let us travel over to India.. Oh my, what a surprise.. their gods are elephants.
Or if we look back at the Red Indians, we'll see they had a certain affinity towards buffalo.
Then you can see things like fertility deities are always females whereas hunter deities are always male.
It is the environment and the culture that determines who and what god is, and how he acts - not vice versa.
It's like how modern day western society has "modified" jesus to such an extent whereby he's now a scrawny white man - which is clearly the daftest of notions - however it is the only way the public will buy into it. He would have no impact whatsoever if everyone imaged him as a dark skinned, curly sideburned jew.
It's not really a surprise that you'll find no original english religion. Our country has no earthquakes, tornadoes or anything of threat. We also have no dangerous animals whatsoever. This country is quite simply so risk free, there would never have been a need to devise a god. English mythology is funnily enough more focused on people; (King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc), and sprites, fairies and goblins. There is also a mass 'superstitious' culture related to birds, (especially magpies- which England is full of).
I will do a much more indepth analysis at some stage, to show just how dependant upon culture and environment a god is, and how when faced with an all-round safe country- there is no such thing as god.
Sure, but that doesn't give any weight to the claim. There are many factors that need to be taken into account first- such as upbringing and cultural impact.
When man first looked at the sky and saw the bright beaming sun, he saw it as a being of immense power. Then writing was developed, and an education system that worked on the back of a belief system. The belief was already firmly established as reality - and was then taught to everyone else as being so. Several thousand years later and it's become an inherent part of humans.
It's also the reason we see 'stories' shared among many different cultures and religions. As an example: The flood story isn't original to the jews, but was written over a thousand years beforehand in Sumeria. It then travelled north to Babylon, Akkadia, Syria and eventually landed in the laps of the Israelites who adapted the story to fit their society and deity. From there it could quite easily navigate itself anywhere.
We must also remember that in the early days many people could not read or write, but were given the "truths" by those who could. They had no way to argue what they were being taught.
Technically I could teach my daughter that the moon is made of goat cheese, and she would be in no position really to state me as being wrong.
Further on through the ages, people have moved past the "belief" systems of old and have used what is present in nature to explain nature. Einstein, Newton, Pasteur.. none of them used supernatural means to come to an answer - they used methods that anyone can adopt and test for themselves, and that is why it's infallible.
Of course though, we're all in a similar position that we can't give a definite to every question out there - and it is that uncertainty, and human need for answers that creates a "gap filler".
People are just not ready or willing to say "I have no idea..", instead they just say "god did it", which is the equivalent of; "I have no idea".
Personally I'm not afraid to say I don't know, and perhaps along similar lines of Newton and Co., I will say there might be some big alien/powerful entity sitting in the cosmos- just like there might be a big bipedal ape strolling through the woodlands of America. Basically what I'm saying is.. "I have no idea.."
However, everything that Newton and the others accomplished, is down to their own ability and effort - For all anyone cares, they could have believed in unicorns and mermaids but it doesn't detract from the fact that the only worth that has come from them is from a world separate to religious belief.
If someone then turns round and says "But I have felt god, so that's proof", I'd congratulate them and state it is proof... for them. But then without the rest of us also "feeling" this god, how would we be able to concur?
It's like the people in the bible, (Moses etc). From the text we can see these guys had pretty much first hand contact with god, and as such would believe in him.. but where does that leave the rest of us who for the past 2,000 years have seen absolutely nothing?
And then as I stated earlier - how would you define something as being an act of god instead of an act of nature?
If you are willing to claim the 10 plagues are an act of god- the same must be true of the bubonic plague and even last weeks thunderstorm. If you are willing to state the bubonic plague was caused by nature, then the same must be true of the 10 plagues, and every other 'disaster' spoken of in the bible.
Either we continue with our religiously inclined societical belief system and look upon every human death as a sinner getting smitten by god, or we trust that science has explained why that guy got struck by lightning etc etc, and realise that nature is the one with the powerful hand, not an invisible sky entity.
I'm pretty sure the majority would understand all this if it weren't for that nagging voice hidden away in their subconcious that reminds them if they don't believe - they burn.
Fear is pretty much the most controlling emotion there is, and it is the foundation of a religious belief system. That is never a good thing - regardless of the topic, be it religion, sport or politics.
Of course, belief systems are based upon fear for several reasons, (the main one explained earlier). Nature isn't exactly.. kind - it can cause extreme devastation, and would do nothing but cause fear within humanity. Then as I mentioned, look at a country that has no natural danger- and you'll find it also devoid of a god. I mean.. could you even imagine a British version of the bible, with god smiting people using red squirrels and badgers?
As for Newton, Einstein and Pasteur.. why do we remember them? Is it because we remember they were smart and said a god might exist, or is it because they advanced the status of mankind by finding out real truths?
Inside each of us is a need to find truth, which is why people "question their faith" on a regular basis.. Simply put, it's just an insufficient gap filler that never actually answers anything - but merely aids in avoiding the question altogether.
When man first looked at the sky and saw the bright beaming sun, he saw it as a being of immense power. Then writing was developed, and an education system that worked on the back of a belief system. The belief was already firmly established as reality - and was then taught to everyone else as being so. Several thousand years later and it's become an inherent part of humans.
It's also the reason we see 'stories' shared among many different cultures and religions. As an example: The flood story isn't original to the jews, but was written over a thousand years beforehand in Sumeria. It then travelled north to Babylon, Akkadia, Syria and eventually landed in the laps of the Israelites who adapted the story to fit their society and deity. From there it could quite easily navigate itself anywhere.
We must also remember that in the early days many people could not read or write, but were given the "truths" by those who could. They had no way to argue what they were being taught.
Technically I could teach my daughter that the moon is made of goat cheese, and she would be in no position really to state me as being wrong.
Further on through the ages, people have moved past the "belief" systems of old and have used what is present in nature to explain nature. Einstein, Newton, Pasteur.. none of them used supernatural means to come to an answer - they used methods that anyone can adopt and test for themselves, and that is why it's infallible.
Of course though, we're all in a similar position that we can't give a definite to every question out there - and it is that uncertainty, and human need for answers that creates a "gap filler".
People are just not ready or willing to say "I have no idea..", instead they just say "god did it", which is the equivalent of; "I have no idea".
Personally I'm not afraid to say I don't know, and perhaps along similar lines of Newton and Co., I will say there might be some big alien/powerful entity sitting in the cosmos- just like there might be a big bipedal ape strolling through the woodlands of America. Basically what I'm saying is.. "I have no idea.."
However, everything that Newton and the others accomplished, is down to their own ability and effort - For all anyone cares, they could have believed in unicorns and mermaids but it doesn't detract from the fact that the only worth that has come from them is from a world separate to religious belief.
If someone then turns round and says "But I have felt god, so that's proof", I'd congratulate them and state it is proof... for them. But then without the rest of us also "feeling" this god, how would we be able to concur?
It's like the people in the bible, (Moses etc). From the text we can see these guys had pretty much first hand contact with god, and as such would believe in him.. but where does that leave the rest of us who for the past 2,000 years have seen absolutely nothing?
And then as I stated earlier - how would you define something as being an act of god instead of an act of nature?
If you are willing to claim the 10 plagues are an act of god- the same must be true of the bubonic plague and even last weeks thunderstorm. If you are willing to state the bubonic plague was caused by nature, then the same must be true of the 10 plagues, and every other 'disaster' spoken of in the bible.
Either we continue with our religiously inclined societical belief system and look upon every human death as a sinner getting smitten by god, or we trust that science has explained why that guy got struck by lightning etc etc, and realise that nature is the one with the powerful hand, not an invisible sky entity.
I'm pretty sure the majority would understand all this if it weren't for that nagging voice hidden away in their subconcious that reminds them if they don't believe - they burn.
Fear is pretty much the most controlling emotion there is, and it is the foundation of a religious belief system. That is never a good thing - regardless of the topic, be it religion, sport or politics.
Of course, belief systems are based upon fear for several reasons, (the main one explained earlier). Nature isn't exactly.. kind - it can cause extreme devastation, and would do nothing but cause fear within humanity. Then as I mentioned, look at a country that has no natural danger- and you'll find it also devoid of a god. I mean.. could you even imagine a British version of the bible, with god smiting people using red squirrels and badgers?
As for Newton, Einstein and Pasteur.. why do we remember them? Is it because we remember they were smart and said a god might exist, or is it because they advanced the status of mankind by finding out real truths?
Inside each of us is a need to find truth, which is why people "question their faith" on a regular basis.. Simply put, it's just an insufficient gap filler that never actually answers anything - but merely aids in avoiding the question altogether.
SnakeLord said:
Of course its a possibility. Im not saying we were created overnight like the Bible says.... Im thinking , the "universe" was created by a creator....... our solar system - and or galaxy or whatever fell into place and in time, like ummmmm billions of years here were are
Hell Im tininking our Creator got an infinite number of actual creations like ourselves....and not like us at all... heck maybe theres a billion creators..... maybe one day ours will pay us a visit.... shit , anything is a "possibility".
Snakeworld,
I urge you to read my earlier post. especially the first six reasons.
I think that many share that. I think that we all share that. And I think we all are supposed to be looking to find truth and God. He that is above all. I agree with you that men have worshiped - and are still worshipping- animals, planets, men like themselves in vain. But that is only an indication that there is something we naturally long for.
Now not everyone has found it, but it is there. And I propose we apply a criterium you gave to that supreme being. That he is not depended on his environment. And that is how I know my Allah.
Chapter Al-Ikhlas/ Sincerity -complete.
In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
(1) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (2) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (3) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (4) And there is none like unto Him.
I further urge you to listen to this.
http://www.islamicawakening.com/playaudio.php?audioID=39
I think this guy -may he be reawarded- sums it very well. The first part is specially usefull for our discussucion. You may listen to the rest of course. I welcome your response then.
Thank you.
May peace be upon you.
I urge you to read my earlier post. especially the first six reasons.
I think that many share that. I think that we all share that. And I think we all are supposed to be looking to find truth and God. He that is above all. I agree with you that men have worshiped - and are still worshipping- animals, planets, men like themselves in vain. But that is only an indication that there is something we naturally long for.
Now not everyone has found it, but it is there. And I propose we apply a criterium you gave to that supreme being. That he is not depended on his environment. And that is how I know my Allah.
Chapter Al-Ikhlas/ Sincerity -complete.
In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
(1) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (2) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (3) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (4) And there is none like unto Him.
I further urge you to listen to this.
http://www.islamicawakening.com/playaudio.php?audioID=39
I think this guy -may he be reawarded- sums it very well. The first part is specially usefull for our discussucion. You may listen to the rest of course. I welcome your response then.
Thank you.
May peace be upon you.
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Can you ask him to make a diamond out of it?§outh§tar said:@ Cyperium
Santa exists. End of story.
//Someone will be getting coal this year.. tee hee hee
Do you know that science actually found a center in the brain dealing with experiance that has with God to do? When scientists activated that area (by electricity or something) then people have reported to see visions. From each religion people see the frontfigure, christians for example, see Jesus.
This does NOT mean that it isn't real though, we need religion and this proves it.
I see it as a gift from God, that He has let us know that something else exists, but you got to find it. God is a unknown God, that's why there are so many religions and why everyone has their view on Him, they have found things that "fits" with the feeling, in some culture this becomes alot of different gods, in some cultures it isn't gods at all but magical things and fairies, but we are all describing more or less the same feeling.
When you look at a certain flower, let's take a ordinary red rose, then you get a feeling of it and how it smells. But if you only had that feeling and the smell, then you could intuitivly know what it "looks like".
HA HA you just described a typical theist!!OliverJ said:
btw,its not a mental block,its called brainwashing or hypnosis!
cults/churches are all experts in mind control
www.atheists.org
*************OliverJ said:
M*W: OliverJ, I believe this, too. The creator IS the creation. Humanity may have reached adolescence by now. We're still 'maturing.' In other words, we're not finished, yet! The purpose of our existence is to become 'godlike,' but I think it's more profound than that. I believe we are evolving toward becoming God, but we certainly will need a new name -- Perhaps 'El' as in 'electricity.'
Why is creating something out of nothing impossible? A long time ago we thought space travel was impossible... we thought filmless cameras were impossible... we thought cloaning was impossible. Fact is, we've thought a lot of things were impossible and later proven true. Maybe God works through some science that is yet unknown to us? Just as someone can change the laws of physics in an isolated system by using outside forces... perhaps God can change things in our universe by using an outside force.
And the bigfoot thing was disproven when those guys came out and said they made that film clip.
And the bigfoot thing was disproven when those guys came out and said they made that film clip.