Why women cannot be priests

[Lawdog]

Today, several Catholic women are trying to get ordained.

Women Ordination

Why women cannot be priests: of course, this must sound repulsive to the modernist mind whose view of radical freedom demands equality in all things to an absurd degree.

What greater gift is there but to be a mother? why must they also be father/priests?

The Feminist heresy has become so prevalent now in society that it is beginning to erode the health of the western world. Able bodied/minded men can no longer find decent work because women have taken half of the positions.

This means less stable marriages and very unhappy men. Women are forced to behave like men and flaunt their sexuality in a bid for dominance. Just take a look at the film "My super ex girlfriend' and you will know what I mean. People are actually entertained by that crap?

Priesthood is not a career. A priest marries the Church, and she is feminine.
ergo, If we allow for womenpriests, we would also have to permit lesbianism.

Men would no longer be willing to make the sacrifice and undertake the spiritual warfare against their natural desires to become and remain priests. Many would leave the priesthood demoralized, and it would be looked upon as just another career. Seminaries would empty out, and in a few years there would be an all-female priesthood with a few effeminate male priests here and there. In this case mass attendance would drop devastatingly, since most normal women do not want another woman telling them how to run their household or preaching to them on morality.

Women cannot be ordained because it is Christ who offers the mass.
The priest must stand in persona of Christ. Even God cannot make a two-sided triangle. Gender is not simply something that can be shed or ignored like clothing, it is an integral part of each human being.

Western Men must stand against this usurpation of their natural and supernatural roles.
if they do not, the Muslim men, who really do oppress women,
will dismantel our civilization and force women to the opposite extreme: wear tents instead.

 

[wsionynw]

Priesthood is not a career. A priest marries the Church, and she is feminine.
ergo, If we allow for womenpriests, we would also have to permit lesbianism.
.

Being a priest is a career, otherwise it would be a hobby.
There's nothing wrong with lesbians.

 

[wsionynw]

Western Men must stand against this usurpation of their natural and supernatural roles.
if they do not, the Muslim men, who really do oppress women,
will dismantel our civilization and force women to the opposite extreme: wear tents instead.

"My religion is better than your religion..."

 

[spidergoat]

They used to be priests, what happened?

 

[Lawdog]

Being a priest is a career, otherwise it would be a hobby.

Priesthood is likened more to marriage in catholic theology.

There's nothing wrong with lesbians.

Whats wrong with lesbians? It goes against Nature. WAKE UP.

 

[Lawdog]

"My religion is better than your religion..."

so all religions are equally sound/valid?

 

[pragmathen]

Women cannot be priests because Christianity is a patriarchal institution. God spoke to Adam, thus implying on a basic level that God wanted his proclamations and orders to go through a male medium. Usually, women are seen as actual physical vessels for God to work his wonders (impregnating Mary, etc.), while men are the actual conduits through which the Voice of God is heard.

Cain & Able, when they're not having sex with their mom and sisters, get into disagreements aplenty. Cain claims to have received differing revelations from God and, though strange, this seems plausible to the inbred brood since men are the accepted vessels by which revelation would come. Of course, Cain's revelation is that hard rock is not good for the brain--specifically Able's brain.

Moses needs his brother Aaron to act as the mouthpiece for God's instructions through Moses. God delivers his commandments to Moses via the burning bush (we'll assume the bush is an asexual entity). Moses' pronouncements, however fantastical--parting the Red Sea, turning staves into serpents, turning rivers to blood, killing the first-born of the enemy--are all carried out as if he (Moses) was speaking as God in the matter.

In the Book of Judges, it appears that God prefers loony men over upright women as is the case with Samson. Although he beds Delilah, ties foxes together and lights them on fire to destroy some local farmer's crops, and is generally untrustworthy, he is ultimately repudiated by God as he pushes the pillars of the building down and destroys the infidels within.

Solomon had far too many concubines and wives--making all of the LDS Church's first 6 presidents' plural wives combined able to fill a small broom-closet comparatively. He devotes a little novella to nothing but softcore porn, which is still allowed in most traditional Christian churches (although reading or quoting from it is generally frowned upon). He does have a pretty wise situation that served as a great 'vehicle' for a Seinfeld run-up down the road.

King David sends Uriah to the front lines for the express purpose of making sure he dies in combat and then so David can bed his wife. It takes a bit of doing, after tons of redundant and occasionally inspirational psalms, but it looks like God forgives him for it. Perhaps the jury's still out on that one.

Lot freely gives up his daughters to Sodom & Gomorrah thugs, but pleads for the safe treatment of his sons. God decides whether or not to destory the entire village based on what Lot bargains as far as how many righteous people reside there. I think Lot managed to knock the number down to 10 righteous men, but you know God was setting him up to fail since the meteors strike will loving abandon.

A Christ is prophesied to come and, for all intents and purposes, though he doesn't come to kick ass and take names, he's definitely *not* going to be a woman, either. John the Baptist is Christ's cousin and is instrumental in not only proving the dietary benefits of grubs and grasshoppers, but in paving the way for Christ's acceptance. A woman is the vessel by which John's head ends up on a charger.

Christ chooses 12 men to represent him and learn from him. Christ performs his great miracles mainly on or in front of men (raising the dead, walking on water, feeding people, changing water into wine, interlocking his fingers behind his head).

As far as Mary (both of them), they're portrayed in subservient themes (washing & anointing his feet, supplicating him at the cross). Jesus dies and first appears to Mary (one account?), then to his disciples (re: apostles and other men). Another post-humous encounter is with the notorious sexist, Paul, who freely denigrates women throughout his entire ecclesiastical vocation.

So it's a little hard for Christians to view women in anything but secondary roles. They're the other white meat when it comes to priesthood power. Their creative (gestation) powers are usually used to try and equate the power of priesthood, though it's widely understood these are diametrically opposite powers. Women have the power to create, sustain and nurture life. Men have the power to take that life and everyone else's life away.

In a male-dominated religion, is it any wonder that the greater importance is put on the destruction of life? And that's why women cannot be priests--because the Christian god does not want them to be; they are to be implied, not seen (god's wife); seen, not heard (nearly every woman in the OT not put in a negative light--Esther & Ruth); heard, not listened to (if they do say something worthy of having it written down, there's no authority ascribed to it, just a good saying).

 

[Lawdog]

Oh, secondary roles for women. ok. Thats why Holy Mother Church teaches definitively that Mary is the Mother of God.

Oh, but, you say, shes secondary to Jesus' role in the gospels!

This must mean that Mary should have been given equal attention as the Lord God and what he came to teach?

all the great artists of the past centuries have painted or sculpted Mary, around whom a whole theology is constructed.

So why do you not attack Mary the Mother of God? You cant because the Church is right.

'Women have the power to create, sustain and nurture life. Men have the power to take that life and everyone else's life away."

this suggests a distrust that needs psychological help.

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

Why women cannot be priests: of course, this must sound repulsive

No, it is repulsive.

to the modernist mind whose view of radical freedom demands equality in all things to an absurd degree.

Men and women are mentally equal. There are now only a few scenarios in modern life where the greater strength and larger physique of a man would be more appropriate than a woman. Sport is one such example. Beyond that there is no just reason why either gender should not be permitted to tackle any task if they are capable, especially where physical strength is not an issue.

And in religion men and women can be equally irrational to the same degree and there seems no good reason why the ugliness of sexual discrimination should exist within such regimes.

What greater gift is their but to be a mother? why must they also be father/priests?

Beyond childbirth and breast feeding both parents are perfectly capable of performing all and any of the tasks needed for child rearing.

The Feminist heresy has become so prevalent now in society that it is beginning to erode the health of the western world.

No – the western world is becoming stronger because freedom for all is growing stronger.

Able bodied/minded men can no longer find decent work because women have taken half of the positions.

Why should a man have any more right to a job than a woman if they are equally capable?

This means less stable marriages and very unhappy men.

But greater justice for women and greater freedom for women to choose their own life. If a man is unhappy then that’s his problem – he must deal with it. The role of women is not solely to please men.

Women are forced to behave like men and flaunt their sexuality in a bid for dominance.

Nonsense. The issue is equality not dominance.

Just take a look at the film "My super ex girlfriend' and you will know what I mean. People are actually entertained by that crap?

Don’t see your point. Besides this was one of the funniest movies I’ve seen for a long time.

Priesthood is not a career.

What then, a hobby?

A priest marries the Church, and she is feminine.

Where is the definition that the Church is female.

ergo, If we allow for womenpriests, we would also have to permit lesbianism.

If so then that would be good progress. There is nothing wrong with lesbianism.

Men would no longer be willing to make the sacrifice and undertake the spiritual warfare against their natural desires to become and remain priests.

Why not?

Many would leave the priesthood demoralized, and it would be looked upon as just another career.

What else is it?

Seminaries would empty out, and in a few years there would be an all-female priesthood with a few effeminate male priests here and there.

You sound very paranoid.

In this case mass attendance would drop devastatingly, since most normal women do not want another woman telling them how to run their household or preaching to them on morality.

You have a very bizarre perspective of how women think.

Women cannot be ordained because it is Christ who offers the mass.

Why does that matter in a symbolic ceremony?

The priest must stand in persona of Christ.

And why would gender be relevant in a matter of spirituality?

Even God cannot make a two-sided triangle.

What, something else he cannot do?

Gender is not simply something that can be shed or ignored like clothing, it is an integral part of each human being.

Yes OK, but unless genitalia are involved gender becomes irrelevant for all intellectual and mental pursuits.

Western Men must stand against this usurpation of their natural and supernatural roles.

Why is sexual discrimination and oppression of a large segment of the human race natural or just?

if they do not, the Muslim men, who really do oppress women,
will dismantel our civilization and force women to the opposite extreme: wear tents instead.

Wow – you are really bizarre.

 

[Lawdog]

Society must be structured for the acheivement of virtue.

 

[spidergoat]

When Women Were Priests:
Women's Leadership in the Early Church and the Scandal of their Subordination in the Rise of Christianity

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

Society must be structured for the acheivement of virtue.

But that structure must be based on the needs of the society and their desires. The society of today is quite different to the one from 2000 years ago that had quite differrent values, so an imposition of an archaic structure is doomed to fail today.

 

[wsionynw]

Priesthood is likened more to marriage in catholic theology.

Whats wrong with lesbians? It goes against Nature. WAKE UP.

It may be likened to marriage, but then I've heard police say they are married to their jobs. It's just a term, and to be honest I was just nit picking.
Give homosexuals a break, they are not hurting anyone or anything, the sooner people realise that the better.

 

[wsionynw]

so all religions are equally sound/valid?

You tell me, I'm an atheist.

 

[Lawdog]

Give homosexuals a break, they are not hurting anyone or anything, the sooner people realise that the better

They are hurting themselves...and probably their parents and siblings as well

You tell me, I'm an atheist.

No they are not all equally respectable. In the first, a religion must true or at least close to true. it should not be for false and lying gods. secondly it must be beneficial to humans and society.

 

[wsionynw]

They are hurting themselves...and probably their parents and siblings as well


No they are not all equally respectable. In the first, a religion must true or at least close to true. it should not be for false and lying gods. secondly it must be beneficial to humans and society.

Lawdog you are digging a big hole for yourself here, and doing your religion no favours. Most decent human beings are against oppression, you seem to want women to be oppressed and you use your religion to justify this.
If I told my parents I was gay and they felt hurt in some way, then that's their problem. The same goes for my siblings. Since when do homosexuals have the ability to change their sexuality to please others? Sure they can hide it, but that harms themselves. You have little or no knowledge of this subject and it's people like you that feel motivated to lash out any anyone that is different.

This thread is probably not the place to discuss whether or not the Bible is true or that Christianity benefits the human race (what about benefiting the environment?).

 

[Cris]

lawdog,

They are hurting themselves...and probably their parents and siblings as well

No that isn't true. It is the bigots in society that generate intolerant attitudes and memes. Homosexuals should be admired for their courage to follow through with their lives despite the ignorance and hatred many have for them. The problem is not caused by homosexuals but by people like you.

 

[Lawdog]

Yes OK, but unless genitalia are involved gender becomes irrelevant for all intellectual and mental pursuits.

Cris: i would not normally seek to debate you since your veiws are
so thoroughly antithetical to mine. However, this statement must be addressed.

All issues of religion and deity aside...

How is it that you think that men and women are equal? They are only equal in respect to law and human dignity, but not in respect to many other things.

You make this mistake because of your modernist notion that equality is a right, and some soprt of ideal state.

They are similar but not equal. This is not discrimination, it is simple observation. I do not say that male intellect is superior, but as a general rule operates in a different way. Same with physique.

Mind and body are intricately linked.

Psychologically and Spiritually they have signifigant differences.

Everyone knows these realities are the truth,
they are just too afraid to talk about it because it bursts the
bubble of modernist equality illusion.

You seem to think the only difference is genital. This is a serious error even for an atheist. Gender and Personhood are realities intrinsically bound, gender cannot be separated from a person.

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

Men and women are on average equal in all essential aspects of mental and intellectual strength. Within the group known as men there are significant differences as there are within the group known as women. Hormone variations in either group can and does generate female like qualities in some men and male like qualities in some women. And there are numerous degrees of variation. During the early stages of life sometime after conception there is no distinction between male and female apart from XX and XY chromosomes, and while these tend to direct the growth process towards female or male it is the correct amount of testosterone that finally causes a particular gender. In this respect it is possible to have XX males and XY females. Sometimes this process doesn’t quite work either way and hermaphrodites are generated. These are people that have both sets of genitalia.

Whatever the biology they are all human with similar brain capacity and mental ability. If you want to discriminate between men and women on the basis of differences both physical and mental then you should also discriminate between effeminate men and male body builders for example. They have very different body types and very different personalities and there are likely to be greater differences there than between the average woman and the average man.

In my everyday life I work with many races and with a mixture of women and men. I easily recognize those women who are my intellectual and mental superiors and the reverse, but there is no difference there than between my male colleagues. In every practical way in my professional field men and women are entirely equal and we all operate within that crystal clear paradigm.

You make this mistake because of your modernist notion that equality is a right, and some soprt of ideal state.

We must treat everyone as equals and equality must be a right. Just as we treat very tall people as equal to very short people, or very fat people to very thin people, or the very aggressive woman with the very feeble man, etc, etc. These are all the vast array of differences between the members of the human race. To highlight one set of differences and discriminate arbitrarily is the height of bigotry and ignorance.

I think perhaps you need to meet a few women since I am sure they will knock some reality into you. My real life experiences tell me you are extremely seriously misguided. I was married for 18 years and have been happily divorced for a further 14 years. I have had many relationships and I also have three daughters all now in their twenties. Try telling a woman she is not your equal or even inferior and watch the fireworks. I guess you must be very young and/or inexperienced, or have had very little experience with women.

 

[Lawdog]

Cris,
Equality is not a right. Its a condition. Its not something that I rely on the government or anything else to grant me. Its a state of my being. I am not equal in wealth and talents and blessings to others. I am simply not equal. Is this something that I should complain about or write to the ACLU?

There are women, and in our modernist society typically, that are superior to men in either virtue or intellect. Our modernist society creates men who are girlish and abdicators, cowardly, who have no gravitas.

I would not be so foolish as to tell a women that shes not my equal, since she would misunderstand what I am saying, nevertheless, it seems that you always overlook the details of what I write and go for the knee-jerk reaction. I said that they were equal in law and dignity, which are the most important things anyway.