Why We Need Good Religion...

[yasmin]

From what I have experienced seen and participated in over my 42 years of life thus far. All I see religion doing is creating more tension in the world then it releaves the only reson that there are religions is to comfort the friends and relatives of dying pepole and of course the dying themselves. Some people cannot come to terms with there is nothing after dying just darkness and the smell of decay if the body is not enbalmed right away. Some people need something to look orward too and have a safe felling that they will live on after they are dead. Well news flash dead people are dead there is no life after death. So with that said there is no need for a religion of any kind in fact what religion should be replaced with and this is my thoughts only are a set of very strict rules. If the said ruleset was adhered too there would be less problems in the world perhaps but not likely. There are no "good" religions and there never will be it will all ways be a pissing match between one sect of cult members against the other. OOPPs did I say cult I meant religion.

I believe religions arise as a need, you know...for solace against the unpleasant events in life for which we do not have logical explanations. Or for some people there are a source of discipline.
My tendency is towards being an atheist, yet I can't be one because I have no line of thought that can give me comfort when confronting issues like death, i have to fall back to the thought of a superior system which has a plan or something like that. I am an agnostic for now and I used to be christian.
I always wonder how people who do not believe at all in god, how do they efficiently cope? My observation of atheists is limited, I have friends who are atheists and I have seen sick people who are atheists, they all have a really hard time coping with stressful situations in life. How do you reason, how do you find balance when you are stressed out with the problems in life?

 

[swarm]

The extrinsic forms are very different, the intrinsic content quite similar.

If I take my glasses off all writing seems the same, but that doesn't mean it is the same.

Without a doubt there are some similarities, but it would be a fallacy to con clude that cursory similarities means one thing is the same as the other. A map of your home town and a map of middle earth have lots of similarities, but they don't have the same goals despite the similarities.

All aim at eliminating our sense of ego.

This is a common misunderstanding, even amoung Buddhists. Buddhism doesn't eliminate ego or destroy ego. Its more like if you thought you had a demon in your pocket. Buddhism is just showing you that you don't. But it isn't eliminating or destroying the demon.

I don't know if you have ever read "The Cloud of Unknowing", swarm?

Not from start to finish. I found it after my interest in xtian esoterica had waned.

It is very much Christian.

There are xtians who would greatly disagree with that statement.

The main focus is on love.

That doesn't mean it is or is not xtian.

a similar "emptiness" or negation of ego to the Sunyata of Buddhism, but filled instead with love of the divine.

An emptiness filled is not yet empty.

The core beliefs are similar between all mystical parts of all the traditions.

They are not.

God is beyond what you or I can imagine or describe.

So is Qerg.

The 'via negativa' is the way to find God through UNKNOWING!

I'm not convinced this is so. I think you are over simplifying.

For example...

the absence of action and desire, which is similar to non-attachment in Buddhism, which is similar to "sin" in Christianity. (Sin means only to 'miss' the target i.e. become attached to something other than God.) They are similar concepts.

These are not similar concepts, even redefining "sin."

Your identity and consciousness are only temporarily associated. The one decays, the other lives on in other beings.

You seem to be proposing consciousness as a distinct substance, but there is no evidence of this. Instead it seems to just be an effect of complex brains.

 

[swarm]

How do you reason, how do you find balance when you are stressed out with the problems in life?

I handle what I can and accept what I cannot. I learn to calm myself and release my stress. I look outside the problem to enjoy the vast not problem which is the majority of existence. I focus on other things to catch my breath.

How do you reason, how do you find balance when you are depending on a lie?

 

[NMSquirrel]

um..not all christian agree with each other..

lots of arguements apply to both christians and non christians

 

[yasmin]

Cheeky considering you can't figure it out.

OK, look at the post you want to reply to. Directly under the name is a button that says "quote."

Right click the button and open it up in a new tab.

this will give you some thing like this:

[ QUOTE=yasmin;2365596]Thank you!:rolleyes :[ /QUOTE]

The part in the [ ] are tags which start and end the quote process. Anything in between them is going to be quoted.

To make more quotes for long text highlight the text by left click+hold and the drag over it with the mouse and then unhold and left click the quote button which looks like a dialog bubble and is to the right of the button which looks like a mountain and to the left of the button which look like #.

Or you can manually enter [ QUOTE] stuff to be quoted [ /QUOTE] (leave off the space inside the tag)

So what you see looks something like this (minus the extra space in "[ Q"):
===
[ QUOTE=yasmin;2365596]Thank you!:[ /QUOTE]

You are welcome.

[ QUOTE]:rolleyes :[ /QUOTE]

Play nice.
===

Resulting in:

===


You are welcome.



Play nice.
===

Thank you swarm I did not see this post until today!

 

[yasmin]

How do you reason, how do you find balance when you are depending on a lie?

I analyze trying to find the teaching the message behind the bad experience. I have still not found one "lie" that can be suitable for me, but I keep looking...

 

[Michael]

The only religions that fit the bill are Buddhism (stripped of all supernatural components) and Taoism, maybe Jainism and some other more obscure ones. The idea of a soul, afterlife, and a personal God, are not compatible with reason or ecology. In any case, it is just wishful thinking to suggest that a less aggressive, less personally appealing religion will ever replace the present situation.

Buddhism seems to be replacing Christianity in Australia. By my reckoning. I think it's because AU is relatively safe and prosperous. Or has been. When people don't have so much fear and feel relatively safe - they are more likely to lean towards mysticisms, Gnostic Christianity and Buddhism (which is the fastest growing religion there). It's no accident Islam is deeply rooted in the violent ME.

 

[swarm]

I have still not found one "lie" that can be suitable for me, but I keep looking...

Why not try seeking out the truth instead?

 

[yasmin]

Why not try seeking out the truth instead?

That is exactly what I am doing.I used the term "lie" because that is how like to call it, is your favorite word, and I know you will always call people like me a liars or delusional, so I used that word to speak your language.

I seek the truth but and as such am skeptical, I am not cynical like in your approach. You just discard the thoughts, have no idea just like the rest of us and yet are set in your ideas no matter what, do you think this is the way you find the truth?

The truth is found by analizing ideas not by discarding them from the begining.
You can only discard some idea after a serious research proves them not true and for those of us who do research, we see many ideas that were abandoned in the past because some research proved them wrong, many times they are reanalyzed with new technology and they are accepted again.

If no one does any research about god because they consider themselves too smart to even start a research then, the truth would never be found.

 

[NMSquirrel]

I seek the truth but and as such am skeptical, I am not cynical like in your approach. You just discard the thoughts, have no idea just like the rest of us and yet are set in your ideas no matter what, do you think this is the way you find the truth?

The truth is found by analizing ideas not by discarding them from the begining.
You can only discard some idea after a serious research proves them not true and for those of us who do research, we see many ideas that were abandoned in the past because some research proved them wrong, many times they are reanalyzed with new technology and they are accepted again.

some ppl are lazy..they dont wanna do the research.they will listen to some others opinion of it and adopt it as their own..not understanding the person they are listening to, adopted someone else's.

If no one does any research about god because they consider themselves too smart to even start a research then, the truth would never be found.

they will be turned over to confusion..

 

[swarm]

I used the term "lie" ...

If the shoe fits...

The truth is found by analizing ideas not by discarding them from the begining.

Not every one is at the beginning of their analysis.

serious research proves them not true

Actually you fail to prove something false until you don't have further reasonable tests to perform.

If no one does any research about god because ...

There isn't anything there to observer or measure.

 

[yasmin]

some ppl are lazy..they dont wanna do the research.they will listen to some others opinion of it and adopt it as their own..not understanding the person they are listening to, adopted someone else's.



they will be turned over to confusion..

I completelly agree. The worse part is that they are not only lazy they are arrogant, insulting, stubborn and unaware of their own ignorance. No intelligent exchange could ever come out of them, they just want to win no matter what, they wont hesitate call you liar, delusional and the worse part is that some other people think they have strong arguments.
I thought these forums were for people with some scientific background, but what I see here in some of them have no idea of scientific approach nor the humility of admitting their limitations. A hopeless situation. Certainly, unworhty of my time... :shrug:

 

[Grim_Reaper]

I believe religions arise as a need, you know...for solace against the unpleasant events in life for which we do not have logical explanations. Or for some people there are a source of discipline.
My tendency is towards being an atheist, yet I can't be one because I have no line of thought that can give me comfort when confronting issues like death, i have to fall back to the thought of a superior system which has a plan or something like that. I am an agnostic for now and I used to be christian.
I always wonder how people who do not believe at all in god, how do they efficiently cope? My observation of atheists is limited, I have friends who are atheists and I have seen sick people who are atheists, they all have a really hard time coping with stressful situations in life. How do you reason, how do you find balance when you are stressed out with the problems in life?

Well I cope with stressful events in my life the same as anyone else would minus the God crap and or religion. If you are strong on mind and you are a logical thinker then you need nothing but belief in your ability to complete a given task. And that would include death everybody is afraid of death as they see it as the end of their being and most pepole cannot handle that as they are to wrapped up in them selves to think that they are not that important in the grad scheme of things. As we are not really there are some that have made very improtant discoveries and such but lets face it we are all not that good. So with all that said you dont need a God and or religion to believe in you just have to beilive in your own ablility to cope with what life hands you and move on.

 

[yasmin]

If the shoe fits...

Again you are the one who used the word "lie" it is how you call it and i only repeated it to counteract your insulting approach, to me is the truth what I am looking for.

Not every one is at the beginning of their analysis

.

Really? Do I have to assume that you have done some research about this? tell me the source, give me the name of the scientific group that has studied the existence of god or the soul and has disproved it

Actually you fail to prove something false until you don't have further reasonable tests to perform.

Agreed

There isn't anything there to observer or measure.

You forgot to write "according to me....there isn't anything..." remember that according to other people they may be something to observe and measure. Since neither you or they haven't proven your points.You can only honestly clarify that this is your personal observation or opinion.

 

[yasmin]

Well I cope with stressful events in my life the same as anyone else would minus the God crap and or religion. If you are strong on mind and you are a logical thinker then you need nothing but belief in your ability to complete a given task. And that would include death everybody is afraid of death as they see it as the end of their being and most pepole cannot handle that as they are to wrapped up in them selves to think that they are not that important in the grad scheme of things. As we are not really there are some that have made very improtant discoveries and such but lets face it we are all not that good. So with all that said you dont need a God and or religion to believe in you just have to beilive in your own ablility to cope with what life hands you and move on.

Certainly you have a very mature approach. I believe my tendency to believe there is something else out there is because I just want to believe I could have another chance to have a different life, I missed out on too many things in this one!I would be cool to have another life after this one to complete everything I want to do.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

But if you live life with no regrets then there is no need to say oh man i wish I could or wow I guess I shoulda. And it only goes to show that alot of people ar selfish and think they are part of something larger when they are not they are part of the world around them and in several billion years no one is going to care a bout a smoking rock in space anyway.

 

[786]

It's no accident Islam is deeply rooted in the violent ME.

It is common sense that the origin of the religion would most likely be the "stronghold" and be well rooted there.

But if what you meant by "rooted" in the "ME" is supposed to mean that most Muslims are there then you must check your facts as Arabs represent less than 20% of the Muslim population. Largest population of Muslims is in Indonesia the last time I checked. Indonesia being a country that is not even close to ME.

Peace be unto you

 

[yasmin]

But if you live life with no regrets then there is no need to say oh man i wish I could or wow I guess I shoulda. And it only goes to show that alot of people ar selfish and think they are part of something larger when they are not they are part of the world around them and in several billion years no one is going to care a bout a smoking rock in space anyway.

I do not know about you, but I make mistakes. Not ilegal or untehical things but wrong desicions about career, personal life, investments. I was not born with a book to guide me in life. Some times you can go back and fix some mistakes, many times you just can't.
I do not necessary believe thinking you might be important is out of selfishness. I do believe all people are important, have a lot of value and always have an impact in society and if we consider ourselves or others insignificant and that we do every day does not matter at all, then there is no point on been ethical or been a good person.
There is nothing wrong with taking pride on the good things we do. Yet many people feel they are very important but take pride on things that they did not accomplish with their own efforts such as being of certain country or certain race or ethnic background.
For those who feel unworthy I would suggest trying to help others; take a cause, help someone in need but undercover, not expecting any kind of recongition for what you do. Not money, not even a thank you note. Just because you know is the right thing for that person or ideal, not for you.

There is no more personal satisfaction that the one that comes from doing good to others or fighting for a noble couse. It would make you feel empowered and important and aware of your power to change the world. Unfortunatelly, this society totally lacks valid role models.The message is if you are not rich and famous, you are worthless.

If all people thought what they do is irrelevant to the world then humanity would have either dissapeared by now or would be like in the times of the romans, when brutality, killings or abuse ruled. If society still exist is in part because of all of those in history who fought for justice, against abuse, who promoted solidarity and compassion among humans.
I believe that even if we totally disappear after we die and nothing we do matters for us after death; our actions will always have an impact in the world, and we should live with that basic idea.

 

[NMSquirrel]

ok you asked for it...lol

It is my belief that the struggle of our existance (nowadays anyway)is our own personal struggle with our sense of worthyness..or more to the point a struggle against our feelings of worthlessness,

some turn to science to get a sense of A always equals B, to discover a definitive solution that applies to everything and everybody,to conform to that standard to be able to say 'I am not worthless cause A=B=Me'

some turn to religion (understand i believe in GOD, not religion)
for the same reasons,'I am not worthless cause i am doing good things for my God'.. they look to the pastor for the definitions of what worthyness is, they attemp to conform to the pastors ideals of how they should feel worthy..

others turn to drugs,alchohol,gambling,porn or anything that distracts them from their own feelings of worthlessness,

there is also the Authority seekers looking to be in a position of power to dictate their own beliefs on other ppl hoping to see their beliefs reflected in the other persons life only to validate their own beliefs..(if only everyone believed what i believe,the world would be a better place)

And the Slammers..those ppl who insult and slam other ppl to try and scare them or bully them into believing like they do to validate their own opinions (maybe if they are scared of me they wont tell me i am wrong)

there are many other examples,way to many to get into here..ive only covered a few,

As i said earlier i do believe in GOD,
I believe GOD has been with me my whole life (through other ppl) i did not read the bible at all till i was about 30 took the next 10 years to read all the way through it..(WOW..most things that god has been teaching me my whole life is in the bible!)

one more point to mention..(have yet to find it in the bible but sure it is there somewhere)

I am not who you think I am..
I am not who I think I am..
the only one that knows who I am is GOD..

this applies to our own sense of worthlessness..

I am not as worthless as I think I am..
I am not as worthless as you say I am..

Only GOD knows our Value and he aint telling...

 

[mike47]

The problems with religion is that every religion sees itself as the only correct, superior and supreme compared to the others .
Humans follow religions through determinism of education, upbringing, experiences in their own lives.....etc .
So the dilemma is how can you say that one religion is right and above the thousands of religions in this world ?.
Yes the world witnessed thousands of religions and not just hundreds .
I would submit that humans are better off with zero religion, one language and one set of human principles based on humanism and pacifism .