why we need ghosts

[Magical Realist]

Sure. All of which tend to be part of a person.
When you start talking about them as if they can exist once the person is gone, you're in pretty far beyond practical - and even outside of any theory - you're in a guessing zone. There's not even a hint of mechanism for it.

There's no hint of mechanism for quantum entanglement or dark energy either. But we still posit the reality of those phenomena because they make sense of what we observe.

 

[Michael 345]

Exactly. It always manifests in one of those forms. "Pure" energy is not a thing. You need to pick one.

I thought it is great MR confirms my post #933

Energy does not exist as a separate entity in and of itself ✓
Different physical and detectable stuff exist ✓
We can detect different physical and detectable stuff ✓
We can CALCULATE the ENERGY of a system ✓

For ENERGY, reminder is a measurement, does not show when you observe or detect

It needs to be calculated

"sure has alot of forms" noooooooo the stuff which has ENERGY has a lot of forms

ENERGY may have different names for measuring it but "a joule by any other name is still a joule"

by taking the time to look up the definition of ENERGY as per his #934

en·er·gy
Dictionary result for energy
/ˈenərjē/
noun

1. 1.
   the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
   "changes in the levels of vitamins can affect energy and well-being"
   synonyms:vitality, vigor, life, liveliness, animation, vivacity, spirit, spiritedness, fire, passion, ardor, zeal, verve, enthusiasm, zest, vibrancy, spark, sparkle, effervescence, exuberance, buoyancy, perkiness, sprightliness; More
   
2. 2.
   power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources, especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.
   synonyms: power
   "the panels turn solar energy into electricity"

https://www.google.com/search?q=energy define&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS699US699&oq=energy define&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4130j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

although I have a suspicion he thought he was reinforcing his own position

How bad of me to have such a thought right?

 

[Michael 345]

Energy is still a noun and refers to something. A form of energy is still energy for example. It's not just a barren form of nothing.

Energy is still a noun and refers to something

Yes a measurement

A form of energy is still energy for example

Yes a measurement

It's not just a barren form of nothing

Yes it is a name for a measurement

Time to put energy to work and make some coffee

Biological energy to get off my arse, move to the kitchen and get the stuff for making coffee together

Electrical energy to boil the water

 

[Michael 345]

they make sense of what we observe

Oh I have just seen a ghost

It must be a form of measurement

 

[Magical Realist]

I thought it is great MR confirms my post #933



by taking the time to look up the definition of ENERGY as per his #934



although I have a suspicion he thought he was reinforcing his own position

How bad of me to have such a thought right?

I don't recall any part of the definition I cited saying energy was a measurement, do you?

 

[Michael 345]

I don't recall any part of the definition I cited saying energy was a measurement, do you?

Well spotted

Below is your dictionary reference (minus the link)

en·er·gy
Dictionary result for energy
/ˈenərjē/
noun

1. 1.
   the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
   "changes in the levels of vitamins can affect energy and well-being"
   synonyms:vitality, vigor, life, liveliness, animation, vivacity, spirit, spiritedness, fire, passion, ardor, zeal, verve,enthusiasm, zest, vibrancy, spark, sparkle, effervescence, exuberance, buoyancy, perkiness, sprightliness; More
2. 2.
   power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources,especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.
   synonyms: power
   "the panels turn solar energy into electricity"

The red highlights that which would be measured

 

[Write4U]

synonyms:vitality, vigor, life, liveliness, animation, vivacity, spirit, spiritedness, fire, passion, ardor, zeal, verve,enthusiasm, zest, vibrancy, spark, sparkle, effervescence, exuberance, buoyancy, perkiness, sprightliness;

Various types of measurement.

 

[Write4U]

I don't recall any part of the definition I cited saying energy was a measurement, do you?

Speaking of measurement, do you think ghosts can be happy or sad, angry or glad?

 

[Michael 345]

synonyms:vitality, vigor, life, liveliness, animation, vivacity, spirit, spiritedness, fire, passion, ardor, zeal, verve,enthusiasm, zest, vibrancy, spark, sparkle, effervescence, exuberance, buoyancy, perkiness, sprightliness

Various types of measurement.

I would put down more as descriptions of synonyms (as they are listed) which are not measurable, the closest being graded on a very flexible sliding scale of percentage

 

[Michael 345]

Speaking of measurement, do you think ghosts can be happy or sad, angry or glad?

No

Hint

Ghost do not exist

 

[Write4U]

No

Hint

Ghost do not exist

Inanimate ghosts do exist, or rather can exist for limited times. Quantum Tunneling.

Quantum tunnelling,
Description
Quantum tunnelling or tunneling is the quantum mechanical phenomenon where a subatomic particle passes through a potential barrier that it cannot surmount under the provision of classical mechanics.

Wikipedia

this may further illustrate.

How Quantum Biology Might Explain Life’s Biggest Questions

 

[Michael 345]

Inanimate ghosts do exist, or rather can exist for limited times. Quantum Tunneling.

And these ghost can

Speaking of measurement, do you think ghosts can be happy or sad, angry or glad?

be measured and be happy blah blah blah?

 

[Write4U]

be measured and be happy blah blah blah?

Could be the title to a song. The hook.
"be measured and be happy", (chorus) blah, blah, blah.....

Nooooooooo....., if a ghost is a quantum phenomenon, it will not be pleased by being collapsed upon measurement.
Not pleasant.............

p.s. do things shrink from quantum collapse when measured?

 

[Michael 345]

Nooooooooo....., if a ghost is a quantum phenomenon, it will not be pleased by being collapsed upon measurement.
Not pleasant.............

Soooooooo a quantum phenomenon ghost does not like tape measures

The more I learn about ghost the more I would like them to be real , sad they are not

 

[Write4U]

Soooooooo a quantum phenomenon ghost does not like tape measures

That and I'm sure any type of observation would be very detrimental to its continued existence. That's why they run away, lest they evaporate from all the probings....

The more I learn about ghost the more I would like them to be real , sad they are not

I agree, I'd love to meet someone who had a friendly ghost sitting on his shoulder.

Reminds of the movie "The Golden Compass"

and

I love mystique and magic. It feeds the imagination.

 

[Michael 345]

I love mystique and magic. It feeds the imagination.

Ummmmm so true

Unfortunately some imaginations become overweight

 

[RainbowSingularity]

There's no hint of mechanism for quantum entanglement or dark energy either. But we still posit the reality of those phenomena because they make sense of what we observe.

i.e the sun and its temperatures...
the sun has super powers

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...heating-theory-presented-at-2015-tess-meeting

The sun's surface is blisteringly hot at 10,340 degrees Fahrenheit -- but its atmosphere is another 300 times hotter. This has led to an enduring mystery for those who study the sun: What heats the atmosphere to such extreme temperatures? Normally when you move away from a hot source the environment gets cooler, but some mechanism is clearly at work in the solar atmosphere, the corona, to bring the temperatures up so high.


Clear evidence now suggests that the heating mechanism depends on regular, but intermittent explosive bursts of heat, rather than on continuous gradual heating. This solution to the coronal heating mystery was presented in a media briefing on April 28, 2015, at the Triennial Earth-Sun Summit, or TESS, meeting in Indianapolis, Indiana.


This is the inaugural meeting for TESS, which is a first of its kind: uniting the various research groups that study the sun-Earth connection from explosions on the sun to their effects near our home planet and all the way out to the edges of the solar system – a research field collectively known as heliophysics. The overarching goal is to share techniques across disciplines and encourage interdisciplinary collaboration on outstanding heliophysics questions.


The coronal heating mystery is one such outstanding question. Four scientists spoke at the media briefing.

 

[DaveC426913]

i.e the sun and its temperatures...
the sun has super powers

Wrong thread.

 

[James R]

If I show any more evidence of ghosts I'll be banned by James R.

Bans here are automatic, based on accumulated warning points. If you are banned, you only have your own actions to blame. It's not that hard to abide by the site posting guidelines. Lots of posters never receive warnings.

He's against the posting of evidence for ghosts. How very scientific!

I'd love it if you could present some good evidence for ghosts. Are you planning on doing that some time soon? Or are you only able to cut and paste youtube videos, which you then spam to our forums?

I believe ghosts are parts or "shells" of ourselves left behind when we die and are composed of all the obsessions, addictions, regrets, traumas, and fears we lived with when we were alive. The ghost is that side of ourselves that never fully matured in life, like Freud's id, and which hangs around in a limbo state until it learns to let go and move on with the rest of our souls. Not all ghosts are like this. Some are residual images played back from the past. Poltergeists are like the unconscious trickster inside adolescent kids. And some spirits I believe are non-human in nature, perhaps negative beings feeding off the fear and despair of living humans.

These beliefs of yours come from somewhere, but they have nothing to do with any evidence you've ever presented here.

I think you believe this stuff because you believe stories you've read or heard from people. That is, you believe in a particular mythology of ghosts. It's similiar in many ways to having religious faith. Perhaps your belief in alien spacecraft and ghosts etc. is what you have substituted for an overt religion. That kind of thing is not uncommon for those who lose their faith in a god.

Looked at critically, of course, your beliefs about ghosts are a bit of a hodge-podge. You say, simultaneously, that ghosts are like negative remnants of a person that remain (somehow) after death. But then you also allow that ghosts are like recordings ("residual images"). But then again, you say that you think ghosts are part of a soul. But not all ghosts. Some ghosts are other-worldly spirits, like demons or whatever.

Basically, ghosts are whatever you need them to be, from moment to moment. As long as they exist for you, it doesn't actually matter what they are.

Free-floating energy does not embody human emotion and behavior.

There is no "free-floating" or "pure" energy. Energy is not a substance. There is no "pure" energy. Energy is an accounting system. Ultimately, it's just a number related to the physical state of some kind of system.

I don't buy into the materialist assumptions of science.

You don't buy into the scientific method, either. That much is clear.

I believe the mind subsists in a domain independent of the brain maintaining a coherent structure and energy that allows it to interact with the world.

What would that "domain" be? Hyperspace? The ghost plane? The demon-filled heavenly reaches?

And how can a number allow a physical thing to interact with other physical things?

You're throwing words around, but you're not making a lot of sense.

I get it. For proponents of the woo, like yourself, energy is like a mystical, magical substance, undefinable and ineffable. Like ghosts, it can be whatever you need it to be. Science has a rather more precise definition of the term - one that makes the concepts associated with energy falsifiable and therefore scientific, unlike all this ghost nonsense.

It is not a "product" of electrochemistry.

You face the problem that every believer in souls faces: how, exactly, does the immaterial soul influence the material body? What is the mechanism? Waving your hands vaguely in the direction of "energy" doesn't begin to solve the problem.

That is only one of its interactions with the world. I don't have any hardcore evidence of this other than phenomena such as ghosts, terminal lucidity, and various exceptional deathbed experiences.

No hardcore evidence? How surprising and unexpected!

There's no hint of mechanism for quantum entanglement or dark energy either.

Regarding quantum entanglement: the idea emerges from an examination of an explicit "mechanism", namely the "mechanism" of quantum mechanics itself. Entanglement wasn't an idea that people dreamed up, so that they then had to go searching for ways to rationalise it, unlike your ghosts. Rather, entanglement is a prediction of a rigorous mathematical theory, verified by empirical experiments.

As for dark energy, a number of possible mechanisms are proposed. However, the term "dark energy" itself is mostly a place holder at present. There is an established empirical effect that needs an explanation. We're not sure what the best explanation is yet, so we do science.

In contrast, there is not even an established empirical effect to be examined in the case of ghosts, other than effects to do with psychology of belief.

P.S. I was going to say that there's no religion-like belief in quantum entanglement or dark energy, but of course there is. There's a fringe element, led by people like Deepak Chopra, for whom quantum entanglement or dark energy are of the same flavor as the mystical "energies" applied by believers in souls and ghosts. These people draw on the parts of the science that suit their purposes at any given time, and ignore the rest. For them, entanglement means whatever they need it to mean, just like a ghost is whatever you need it to be at the time.

 

[Michael 345]

Does this really need a explanation?



You're welcome