why we need ghosts

[Magical Realist]

That "philosophical worldview" is all about objectivity - i.e. weeding out individual bias and individual errors.

The only bias is the skeptic's assumption that there is no such thing as ghosts even before they examine the evidence for them. You thus deny from the outset what you pretend to be examining objectively. That's not scientific.

 

[sideshowbob]

The only bias is the skeptic's assumption that there is no such thing as ghosts even before they examine the evidence for them.

It's not an a priori assumption. It's a conclusion based on lack of evidence. The incredibly poor evidence that you present only supports the conclusion, as does your incredible lack of understanding of the foibles of human perception.

I, for one, would be tickled pink if ghosts existed. Or alien spacecraft. Or unicorns.

 

[Magical Realist]

It's not an a priori assumption. It's a conclusion based on lack of evidence.

There is no lack of evidence. There's videos and photos and paranormal investigations and eyewitness accounts of paranormal phenomena all over the world. The only way you could deny that there's evidence is if you are ignorant of it, as indeed most skeptics are. "I don't know of any evidence, therefore there is no evidence."

Skeptic's circular logic: There is no such thing as ghosts, because there is no evidence. There is no evidence of ghosts, because there is no such thing as ghosts.

 

[DaveC426913]

Not many God-believers claiming to have seen God right in front of them.

And yet plenty have.

So which is it? Is any given witness credible, or does your belief hinge on popularity?

 

[Magical Realist]

And yet plenty have.

So which is it? Is any given witness credible, or does your belief hinge on popularity?

No..I know of no God-believer claiming God has appeared in front of them.

 

[DaveC426913]

No..I know of no God-believer claiming God has appeared in front of them.

Ah. So, you have passed judgement that it is fake - without bothering to seek out an analyze the accounts for yourself.

Got it.

 

[Michael 345]

Not many God-believers claiming to have seen God right in front of them.

Would you believe those who did?

Would such a declaration count as compelling evidence god exist?

 

[James R]

Magical Realist:

Nope..Keanu was there and that's what he said he saw.

I agree. That's what he said he saw. And so? What's the next step?

I simply take his word for it.

No. You go beyond taking his word about what he thought he saw. You extrapolate to believing that he saw a ghost, with no objective evidence.

Unlike you, I don't try to tell him what he saw or didn't see.

I haven't tried to tell him anything. If you can get him here, I'm happy to discuss it with him, though. He might be more amenable to critical thought than you are.

Not many God-believers claiming to have seen God right in front of them.

Some do. But also, many God-believers go one better, by saying that they feel the presence of God in their heads and in their hearts. That is, they report direct experiences of God.

Why is their testimony not as good or better than the kind of testimony you bring for ghosts or UFOs?

The only bias is the skeptic's assumption that there is no such thing as ghosts even before they examine the evidence for them.

Skeptics have not concluded that there is no such thing as ghosts. If you think you have some evidence for them, skeptics are more than happy to look at it.

Before you start up again, realise that I'm not denying that ghost anecdotes are evidence of something. It's just that they are not reliable or persuasive evidence of ghosts.

There is no lack of evidence. There's videos and photos and paranormal investigations and eyewitness accounts of paranormal phenomena all over the world.

All of which are either unverifiable, of questionable legitimacy, or ambiguous in what they show.

The only way you could deny that there's evidence is if you are ignorant of it, as indeed most skeptics are. "I don't know of any evidence, therefore there is no evidence."

You can hardly claim that the people here are ignorant of your evidence. You have been asked on multiple occasions here to present what you regard as the best evidence for ghosts. In response, the best you have come up with is some grainy videos of dubious provenance showing what could well be events explainable through mundane means. Oh, and lots of videos of people telling tales of their supposed ghostly encounters. Not to mention clips from television shows that make their money by talking up the ghost "phenomenon" and presenting one-sided, breathless accounts of "ghosts". And you suck it all up like a dupe.

Skeptic's circular logic: There is no such thing as ghosts, because there is no evidence. There is no evidence of ghosts, because there is no such thing as ghosts.

Skeptics have not concluded that there is no such thing as ghosts. All that can be said is that the evidence for ghosts is of low quality and does not persuade.

 

[DaveC426913]

Skeptics have not concluded that there is no such thing as ghosts.

This bears repeating.

MR: good skeptics do not claim that ghosts definitely do not exist. I'll hazard to say that no one here has made such a claim.

Thing is: good skeptics also do not say that God definitely does not exist. As you do, we simply don't find the evidence compelling, and that more mundane answers to such beliefs surely lie in the subtleties of human beliefs and wishful thinking. Yes?

 

[Magical Realist]

Magical Realist:


I agree. That's what he said he saw. And so? What's the next step?


No. You go beyond taking his word about what he thought he saw. You extrapolate to believing that he saw a ghost, with no objective evidence.


I haven't tried to tell him anything. If you can get him here, I'm happy to discuss it with him, though. He might be more amenable to critical thought than you are.


Some do. But also, many God-believers go one better, by saying that they feel the presence of God in their heads and in their hearts. That is, they report direct experiences of God.

Why is their testimony not as good or better than the kind of testimony you bring for ghosts or UFOs?


Skeptics have not concluded that there is no such thing as ghosts. If you think you have some evidence for them, skeptics are more than happy to look at it.

Before you start up again, realise that I'm not denying that ghost anecdotes are evidence of something. It's just that they are not reliable or persuasive evidence of ghosts.


All of which are either unverifiable, of questionable legitimacy, or ambiguous in what they show.


You can hardly claim that the people here are ignorant of your evidence. You have been asked on multiple occasions here to present what you regard as the best evidence for ghosts. In response, the best you have come up with is some grainy videos of dubious provenance showing what could well be events explainable through mundane means. Oh, and lots of videos of people telling tales of their supposed ghostly encounters. Not to mention clips from television shows that make their money by talking up the ghost "phenomenon" and presenting one-sided, breathless accounts of "ghosts". And you suck it all up like a dupe.


Skeptics have not concluded that there is no such thing as ghosts. All that can be said is that the evidence for ghosts is of low quality and does not persuade.

Wow..more semantic contortions all surrounding the harmless little accounts of ghosts I posted here. Now skeptics don't even doubt the existence of ghosts! I said it once and I'll say it again:
If it was nothing you wouldn't invest so much time and energy in trying to dismiss it. But you can't accomplish that because you weren't there and they were and that fact alone makes anything you have to say about it pretty much moot.

 

[billvon]

No..I know of no God-believer claiming God has appeared in front of them.

A story from Valparai, India: "It almost sounded like a war cry. Velu threw his hands high up in the air, his head turned upwards at the sky, eyes firmly shut and his taut muscles getting tighter as he called out passionately to the heavens. And then he said in flawless English, “This is where I saw God,” and went on to tell me the exact date and time. That was 37 years ago."

Dr. Gary Wood, a man who had a near death experience: “I stepped out of this body, this Earth suit, and then was lifted up through the top of my car and my whole life just passed before my eyes in just an instant. . . .About 500 yards from the throne room of God, my friend took me and I was captivated by the sign on the outside that said ‘Unclaimed Blessings’. When I opened the door, to my astonishment I saw legs hanging there from the wall, real legs. Every part of one’s anatomy was there in that room and people asked my ‘why do you need a place like that?’ Because God has a spare part when God has a miracle." Then he met Jesus. "I was sent back to tell people that Heaven is real, there is a song to sing, there is a mission or journey to take, there is a book to write. You’re unique in purpose on this Earth. Jesus told me to give a specific message – there will be a spirit of restoration that would prevail throughout the land, there would be a teaching and emphasis on prayer.”

Debbie Cain - "I started to feel a great love from within. It was warm and I saw a bright light that began to clean everything. I saw Jesus there. He looked at me and without saying a word, he spoke to me and said: ´Not now my child´. I can´t remember anything else and then I woke up in the Intensive Care Unit.”

Evi Abada: "Today, I am a full-grown woman, privileged to have experienced God personally. And that is why I can confidently say that God is indeed real because I have seen Him."

And since you place a very high value on the testimony of celebrities, here's a big one:

Paul McCartney, after taking drugs: “We were immediately nailed to the sofa. And I saw God, this amazing towering thing, and I was humbled.”

So now you know.

 

[Magical Realist]

A story from Valparai, India: "It almost sounded like a war cry. Velu threw his hands high up in the air, his head turned upwards at the sky, eyes firmly shut and his taut muscles getting tighter as he called out passionately to the heavens. And then he said in flawless English, “This is where I saw God,” and went on to tell me the exact date and time. That was 37 years ago."

Dr. Gary Wood, a man who had a near death experience: “I stepped out of this body, this Earth suit, and then was lifted up through the top of my car and my whole life just passed before my eyes in just an instant. . . .About 500 yards from the throne room of God, my friend took me and I was captivated by the sign on the outside that said ‘Unclaimed Blessings’. When I opened the door, to my astonishment I saw legs hanging there from the wall, real legs. Every part of one’s anatomy was there in that room and people asked my ‘why do you need a place like that?’ Because God has a spare part when God has a miracle." Then he met Jesus. "I was sent back to tell people that Heaven is real, there is a song to sing, there is a mission or journey to take, there is a book to write. You’re unique in purpose on this Earth. Jesus told me to give a specific message – there will be a spirit of restoration that would prevail throughout the land, there would be a teaching and emphasis on prayer.”

Debbie Cain - "I started to feel a great love from within. It was warm and I saw a bright light that began to clean everything. I saw Jesus there. He looked at me and without saying a word, he spoke to me and said: ´Not now my child´. I can´t remember anything else and then I woke up in the Intensive Care Unit.”

Evi Abada: "Today, I am a full-grown woman, privileged to have experienced God personally. And that is why I can confidently say that God is indeed real because I have seen Him."

And since you place a very high value on the testimony of celebrities, here's a big one:

Paul McCartney, after taking drugs: “We were immediately nailed to the sofa. And I saw God, this amazing towering thing, and I was humbled.”

So now you know.

LOL! On their deathbed and while taking drugs. Yeah..

 

[billvon]

LOL! On their deathbed and while taking drugs. Yeah..

I am going to immensely enjoy you arguing that people who saw ghosts are 100% credible - but people who saw God are lunatics.

 

[James R]

Wow..more semantic contortions all surrounding the harmless little accounts of ghosts I posted here.

I note your inability and/or unwillingness to engage with what I wrote. Far easier to laugh nervously and move on, eh?

Now skeptics don't even doubt the existence of ghosts!

Wrong. Skeptics do doubt the existence of ghosts. Clearly you missed the point again.

I said it once and I'll say it again:
If it was nothing you wouldn't invest so much time and energy in trying to dismiss it.

You will notice, if you look, that I've spent no time at all trying to dismiss Keanu's story in this thread. It is what it is, nothing more. I'm sorry it's not what you so want it to be, but that's life. Deal with it.

But you can't accomplish that because you weren't there and they were and that fact alone makes anything you have to say about it pretty much moot.

By the exact same argument, anything you have to say about it is pretty much moot. Right? Then why are you banging on about it?

 

[James R]

LOL! On their deathbed and while taking drugs. Yeah..

Wait a minute! This is eyewitness testimony, and here you are trying to explain it away with your "skepticism"!

You are denying the experiences of these honest, upstanding people. They have no reason to lie about seeing God. Why are you calling them greedy, conniving liars?

 

[Magical Realist]

Wait a minute! This is eyewitness testimony, and here you are trying to explain it away with your "skepticism"!

You are denying the experiences of these honest, upstanding people. They have no reason to lie about seeing God. Why are you calling them greedy, conniving liars?

While on their deathbed and while taking drugs..Yeah..

 

[DaveC426913]

While on their deathbed and while taking drugs..Yeah..

It is apparent you never bothered to actually study these accounts before deciding to dismiss them.

Hmph. Skeptics. Always so quick to dismiss that which they can't understand. AmIrite?

 

[Michael 345]

While on their deathbed and while taking drugs..Yeah..

But but but we truly have physical evidence of god

Evidence which people can handle and pass around, be examined and commented on

Who has not seen toast with the face of the Lord Savour?

Take that you heathen pagans

Now where is my coffee to go with the toast?

 

[James R]

While on their deathbed and while taking drugs..Yeah..

Unable to explain your own hypocrisy? I thought as much.

 

[James R]

From somebody who wasn't on her deathbed or on drugs:

"I remember the first time I saw God. I was in the forth grade, waiting for my bus to come and pick me up from the school. As I waited, I would climb up to the top of the slide everyday and sit on the bars at the top and look out across the school yard. The day I saw was partly cloudy but beyond that was a bright sun. I remember looking up, and the clouds suddenly parted, and rays of sunlight shined down, but not like other times. It wasn't light from the sun, but from the Sun. I saw God between the clouds that day, and I smiled, and my spirits where so lifted by it, I still remember that happiness to this day."
​

Link: https://www.wattpad.com/story/954858-i-saw-god-today

What's your excuse for denying this eyewitness's honest testimony, Magical Realist? She has no reason to lie. This is a record of her experience. By your own standards, you ought to accept this at face value. Why don't you?

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