Why seek proof of God?

[Light Travelling]

Or it could come from a desire to stay alive; fear is not a necessary factor. You also imply there is something good about natural processes and that we must accept them. I don’t agree. Nature is something imposed on us that we do not have to accept willingly.

Again you imply that natural is good and we must take a defeatist attitude. You are displaying the very apathy that comes from religious conditioning. Aging is a disease like any other and we should address it as such with appropriate disdain. And nature is a largely random and uncontrolled process that we should learn to control and manipulate for our own benefit.

I can’t see that the terms “fear” or “love” in this context are applicable to me. Life is preferable to death, so why would one ever willingly accept the least preferable option? This is simply a matter of logic.

.

This is a classic example of ego at work. It wants to live for ever and wont accept its own mortality - but it wont accept that anything else can help it with that except itself.

In truth nothing can help it. The ego does die with the body. But the real self continues.

The ego will hold itself up as god and master of life, but this is not the case. The work of the spiritual masters of the ages has been in defeating the human ego.

(please dont take this as a personal insult chris - it is not intended that way)

 

[Adstar]

This is a classic example of ego at work. It wants to live for ever and wont accept its own mortality - but it wont accept that anything else can help it with that except itself.

In truth nothing can help it. The ego does die with the body. But the real self continues.

The ego will hold itself up as god and master of life, but this is not the case. The work of the spiritual masters of the ages has been in defeating the human ego.

Well said. The bible uses the Word "pride" pride is the engine of ego. It is the greatest block to receiving help. As in normal life, proud people hate the thought that they need help to get through it. And they also hate the thought that they cannot obtain eternity with God without Gods help.

The proud seek to justify themselves.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[john smith]

I do not need to seek proof of God, however sum people HAVE to know why some things happen, simply stateing that we are 'Gods ' creation, is the easiest and most 'defensive' argument one can use, to all those that du, i have only one word=SUCKERS

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

So back then, at a baptism, a person was asked what in English would nowadays be "Do you believe in God?", to the person meant 'Do you love God?'.

I guess there wouldn't have been any point in asking if they believed, if they were there to be baptised.

They didn't make any particular distinction between what we nowadays distinguish as belief and love/hold dear.

Because 'belief' is the road to 'love/hold dear.
The first belief is in ones self.

This just goes to show that the conceptual world of the old was a lot different than ours, and that words have, in time, become to mean things that they first weren't to mean.

I looked for the word "Glaube" in a search engine and found the German 'Wikepedia' site. I translated that, and found that the word 'faith' is described differently than the english 'Wikipedia' translation of the word. I found that the german translation tried to be 'honest' in their description, while the english translation was filled with ideas that really needn't be there, much like the atheist understanding of faith.

In the light of this, and of what you said, it is safe to say that an atheist is someone who doesn't love God.

An atheist doesn't essentially know what God is, not because they are stupid or incapable of knowing. It is because they do not wish to acesss that memory, that is why they are atheist.

B.G.Chapter 15, Verse 15.
I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.

Most people in the west are materialists of varying degrees, and the atheist is a gross-materialist and therefore sees everything from a material viewpoint. So because God does not appear before them (in the flesh), they cannot believe, what to speak of love.

Jan Ardena.

 

[water]

Jan,

So back then, at a baptism, a person was asked what in English would nowadays be "Do you believe in God?", to the person meant 'Do you love God?'.

I guess there wouldn't have been any point in asking if they believed, if they were there to be baptised.

I am studying Old High German texts for my exam, and there are also baptismal forms. We're talking 900 A.D. or so.

And in these forms, a certain duality is expressed:
the Triune Christian God vs. the Germanic gods.
The person to be baptized is asked: "Do you believe (ie. love, hold dear, *prefer*!) the Triune God and renounce Wotan, etc.?"

It is layed out as a matter of preference, not of belief.

It seems that back then, when Western concepts about religion and cognitive processes were being formed there was no question about believing in god(s); or at least the issue of mere cognitive belief was not questioned.
It was prominently a question of preference. Which god does one prefer above other gods.

I looked for the word "Glaube" in a search engine and found the German 'Wikepedia' site. I translated that, and found that the word 'faith' is described differently than the english 'Wikipedia' translation of the word. I found that the german translation tried to be 'honest' in their description, while the english translation was filled with ideas that really needn't be there, much like the atheist understanding of faith.

English has many complications. Some of them, I deem artifical.

B.G.Chapter 15, Verse 15.
I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.

Some things cannot be learned, they must be remembered.

Most people in the west are materialists of varying degrees, and the atheist is a gross-materialist and therefore sees everything from a material viewpoint. So because God does not appear before them (in the flesh), they cannot believe, what to speak of love.

But why is this so? Whence this materialistic way of defining who one is?

 

[Turduckin]

Ellion,
But all major religions encourage irrational beliefs contrary to optimal long-term survival.

If irrational beliefs are contrary to 'optimal long term survival' (whatever that means), then you need to show how almost 6 billion humans occurred in spite of a high rate of continued irrationality.

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

It is layed out as a matter of preference, not of belief.

If you you don't believe in God, then you believe in matter, that's what it boils down to. People worship gods/demigods for material benifit. How we act is subject to what we really believe despite what we say we believe.

It seems that back then, when Western concepts about religion and cognitive processes were being formed there was no question about believing in god(s); or at least the issue of mere cognitive belief was not questioned.
It was prominently a question of preference. Which god does one prefer above other gods.

Nothing has changed. The atheist who genuinely believes he does not believe in God or gods is mistaken, he doesn't realise his actions speak far louder than his words.

Some things cannot be learned, they must be remembered.

Come to light.

But why is this so? Whence this materialistic way of defining who one is?

It is a matter of the desire of the living entity.

Jan Ardena.

 

[enton]

Why seek proof of God?



Please note that I have given this simple question a lot of thought, and I am not asking it lightly.

Very simple! The proof of God is within me, in my christianity.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Very simple! The proof of God is within me, in my christianity.

*************
M*W: And that would make you a pathological liar. Go blow yourself.

 

[Hapsburg]

Very simple! The proof of God is within me, in my christianity.

You realize that makes no sense, and is a sure sign that you are insane.
You. Need. Mental. Help.

 

[enton]

You realize that makes no sense, and is a sure sign that you are insane.
You. Need. Mental. Help.

Did I ever say you have sense? You can't sense.

 

[enton]

*************
M*W: And that would make you a pathological liar. Go blow yourself.

Why tagged me a pathological liar? I am just sticking my walk to a logical path.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Why tagged me a pathological liar? I am just sticking my walk to a logical path.

*************
M*W: Because you profess and perpetuate the christian lie. You're a mililtant christian, and the only reason you came to sciforums was to preach about theoldfilipinoway. You did not come here to explain your form of christianity or even discuss it. You have nothing to say on your own, so you resurrect old threads and comment on them knowing full well that the dead members won't respond.

Stick to your walk alone.

 

[enton]

*************
M*W: You have nothing to say on your own, so you resurrect old threads and comment on them knowing full well that the dead members won't respond.

Tell the admin to erase members who passed away already. Or much better so that you are satisfied, request the admin to eradicate their posts and threads too .

 

[audible]

Tell the admin to erase members who passed away already. Or much better so that you are satisfied, request the admin to eradicate their posts and threads too .

it's not up to the admin, it up to you to have the common sense to know, after all, you are digging in the archives, so you must know where you are, just dont go there, moron.

 

[sniffy]

good god what a lot of god bothering

If there is a god and you follow the 'teachings' of your god then you will be saved/granted eternal life/reincarnated/sit with the prophets, etc

If there is a god and you don't follow the teachings then you will burn in hell/be denied eternal life/come back as a dung beetle/suffer similar unpleasant fate

If there is no god

My issue with the majority of the godspin is the problem of 'the others' not following the one true path. What does god do with them when they die? They believe in a god, not the one true god but at least they are not athiests. Now why didn't these believers follow the one true god? Did they not hear the word in time (blame the prophets or blame the priests?). Perhaps they could be servants to ther believers of the one true god.

It is the issue of 'the other' and the human responses to 'one true god' arguments that seems to be fuelling religious conflict. We shouldn't be worrying so much about loving god but loving oursleves and each other enough to respect life in all its manifestations.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Tell the admin to erase members who passed away already. Or much better so that you are satisfied, request the admin to eradicate their posts and threads too .

*************
M*W: The Mod already told you what to do.

 

[enton]

It is the issue of 'the other' and the human responses to 'one true god' arguments that seems to be fuelling religious conflict. We shouldn't be worrying so much about loving god but loving oursleves and each other enough to respect life in all its manifestations.

"Learning to love yourself is the gravest love of all."

 

[sniffy]

yes enton and you don't need a god to tell you to do that

 

[enton]

yes enton and you don't need a god to tell you to do that

There is a god which is loved by many: Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)