Why seek proof of God?
- Thread starter water
- Start date
Mainly because I want to know. I want to know because I associate so much of the suffering, anger, hate and violence in this world with what is taught, either responsibly or irresponsibly, by the churches of the world. Not just with the nature of man or woman themselves. I think that we are taught to hate as much as it is in our nature to hate. Genetics AND environment. If the churches are teaching a pack of lies, then I want to know. If they know they are teaching a pack of lies, then I want to know.
I need meaning, not guesses. Not blind hope and faith. Facts. Facts. Facts.
So much in our lives is associated with God, one way or another; it would be nice to know why.
I need meaning, not guesses. Not blind hope and faith. Facts. Facts. Facts.
So much in our lives is associated with God, one way or another; it would be nice to know why.
water said:
To keep Him on your mind.
Cottontop3000,
I suppose you have some examples of this?
Jan Ardena.
Who is seeking proof of God? And what kind of proof?
The people who do any kind of decent job are logicians.
The people who do any kind of decent job are logicians.
If someone is going to demand others to live by the rules allegedly established by a particular deity, the least they can do is provide solid proof of its existence.
It's a matter of the most elemental decency.
If, on the other hand, that same someone is satisfied by living according to those rules while not demanding compliance from others, no proof is needed.
It's a matter of the most elemental decency.
If, on the other hand, that same someone is satisfied by living according to those rules while not demanding compliance from others, no proof is needed.
quote
Cottontop3000,
I want to know because I associate so much of the suffering, anger, hate and violence in this world with what is taught, either responsibly or irresponsibly, by the churches of the world.
9/11 Islamic terrorism,
Crusades,
Inquisitions,
Hitler
Cottontop3000,
I want to know because I associate so much of the suffering, anger, hate and violence in this world with what is taught, either responsibly or irresponsibly, by the churches of the world.
do these ring a bell?Jan Ardena said:
9/11 Islamic terrorism,
Crusades,
Inquisitions,
Hitler
NO1 said:
The Matrix. Dear, that was a movie.
i seek prrof of god because i am 14 and i wish to have the best idea for when i am 18 and decide if i shall foloow the ways of the church are if i shall go my own way and live by pholasphies. OK umm NO1 can you send my your proof of the matrix if you have suck proof?
Cottontop3000,
Mostly because God is easiest to blame.
* * *
§outh§tar,
Well, depending on the noetic theory a person adheres to. (Most people don't know which noetic theory they adhere to; they don't consciously hold a theory on how they process reality.)
* * *
Jan Ardena,
But that is a tedious and cold way to do it!
* * *
DarkEyedBeauty,
Look around this forum.
Hah! Unspecified. Most of those who seek proof of God, usually have no definition of God, other than that He is unknowable.
This renders any search futile, and makes it look as if there is no proof for the existence of God.
Pray tell, what exactly do they do?
* * *
NO1,
I think this is an example of a particular Western theology that postulates that God is bound by necessity, this necessity being the "Matrix".
* * *
fadeaway humper,
I fully agree.
As the Bible says:
Rom. 14:22:
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.
and
Gal. 5:26:
Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
* * *
scorpius,
Religion is not God.
Mostly because God is easiest to blame.
* * *
§outh§tar,
Well, depending on the noetic theory a person adheres to. (Most people don't know which noetic theory they adhere to; they don't consciously hold a theory on how they process reality.)
* * *
Jan Ardena,
But that is a tedious and cold way to do it!
* * *
DarkEyedBeauty,
Look around this forum.
Hah! Unspecified. Most of those who seek proof of God, usually have no definition of God, other than that He is unknowable.
This renders any search futile, and makes it look as if there is no proof for the existence of God.
Pray tell, what exactly do they do?
* * *
NO1,
I think this is an example of a particular Western theology that postulates that God is bound by necessity, this necessity being the "Matrix".
* * *
fadeaway humper,
I fully agree.
As the Bible says:
Rom. 14:22:
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.
and
Gal. 5:26:
Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
* * *
scorpius,
Religion is not God.
One who asks for proof of existence completely fails to understand the path or the mindset of the spiritual seeker, as does a religionist who tries to provide proof.
The purpose of spirtual seeking is to be able to perceive and realise truth i.e. in order to be able to perceive and realsie the true nature of ourselves, life and creator correctly. At the point of correct perception comes enlightenment and therefore knowledge. Until this point we only have beliefs. However, this point of enlightenment signals the coming to an end our time in physical embodiments on this planet.
My point is though, that the spiritual seeker does not need proof in order to seek or to believe. He cannot understand the mindset of one who refuses to seek for god because he has no proof - this in itself is not logical.
The purpose of spirtual seeking is to be able to perceive and realise truth i.e. in order to be able to perceive and realsie the true nature of ourselves, life and creator correctly. At the point of correct perception comes enlightenment and therefore knowledge. Until this point we only have beliefs. However, this point of enlightenment signals the coming to an end our time in physical embodiments on this planet.
My point is though, that the spiritual seeker does not need proof in order to seek or to believe. He cannot understand the mindset of one who refuses to seek for god because he has no proof - this in itself is not logical.
scorpius said:
Churches of the world huh?
water,
It is not done intentionally. As long as we talk about God, in any way, He remains on our minds, which is the point of God-consciousness.
The real atheist is one who knows nothing of God, and as such God is not on his mind in the least.
Jan Ardena.
Cris,
Alright. And why do you want the demise of religion?
* * *
Light Travelling,
Would you say that there are essentially two groups of people -- the spiritual seekers, and those who refuse to seek spiritually?
* * *
Jan Ardena,
Yes. Here's a pearl form Old High German: The German word for "faith" is "Glaube" and for "to believe" is "glauben", both are of the same root with etymologically the same meaning. In Old High German, as they translated the Bible and other sacral texts, they used the word "gi-loub-an", which literally means 'to love, to hold dear'.
So back then, at a baptism, a person was asked what in English would nowadays be "Do you believe in God?", to the person meant 'Do you love God?'. They didn't make any particular distinction between what we nowadays distinguish as belief and love/hold dear.
This just goes to show that the conceptual world of the old was a lot different than ours, and that words have, in time, become to mean things that they first weren't to mean.
In the light of this, and of what you said, it is safe to say that an atheist is someone who doesn't love God.
Alright. And why do you want the demise of religion?
* * *
Light Travelling,
Would you say that there are essentially two groups of people -- the spiritual seekers, and those who refuse to seek spiritually?
* * *
Jan Ardena,
Yes. Here's a pearl form Old High German: The German word for "faith" is "Glaube" and for "to believe" is "glauben", both are of the same root with etymologically the same meaning. In Old High German, as they translated the Bible and other sacral texts, they used the word "gi-loub-an", which literally means 'to love, to hold dear'.
So back then, at a baptism, a person was asked what in English would nowadays be "Do you believe in God?", to the person meant 'Do you love God?'. They didn't make any particular distinction between what we nowadays distinguish as belief and love/hold dear.
This just goes to show that the conceptual world of the old was a lot different than ours, and that words have, in time, become to mean things that they first weren't to mean.
In the light of this, and of what you said, it is safe to say that an atheist is someone who doesn't love God.
water said:
Essentially two. But in reality I would say three:
The first group are spiritual seekers, they may belong to religions or not. They do not need a burden of proof to seek and rarely claim absolute knowledge.
The second group are definately not spritual seekers (they refuse to seek). They have no interest whatsoever in establishining meanings of life, searching for truth or seeking spirituality. They are content in their ignorance (and there are millions of these), and this is why I like this quote form Jan Ardena.
Jan Ardena said:
And that brings me to the third group. They are either seekers without knowing it or they wish to be seekers without knowing how. These are either people stuck in the limiting dogma of orthodox religion, or they are atheists with a healthy interest in religion and the existence / non existence of god.
/Jan Ardena said:
What? Are you trying to imply there aren't any?
NO1 said:
Will you please show ME this proof? Please?!?!