Incriminating Convoy
Registered Member
Thanks for clearing this up for me! I sure am open to this possibility.
Why isn't faith embarrasing?
- Thread starter superluminal
- Start date
Thanks for clearing this up for me! I sure am open to this possibility.
Huh?
Contrary to popular belief the symbol is not a Jewish construct. I've read it came from ancient Egypt, but I haven't studied it enough to confirm that claim. Also the information on that subject is more elusive than you might think. The concept of "the beast" is also a bit shadowy when it comes to research.
I call it the Internet Scientist.
You know, the kind that read websites and think they know it all.
I call it the Internet Scientist.
You know, the kind that read websites and think they know it all.
I don't just read websites, I also read books. The web however is full of useful information.
You are what I call a TV scientist. You know the kind that watches TV and think they know it all.
I don't just read websites, I also read books. The web however is full of useful information.
You are what I call a TV scientist. You know the kind that watches TV and think they know it all.
Thats interesting. The only thing I watch on TV is animation and comedy.
Thats interesting. The only thing I watch on TV is animation and comedy.
You obviously have a contempt for those that would educate themselves. Why am I not surprised?
Possibly its my bookish and scientific background. I tend to view casual learners as pseudoexperts.
Possibly its my bookish and scientific background. I tend to view casual learners as pseudoexperts.
I have heard nothing intelligent or scientific out of you yet. You know absolutely nothing about my level of commitment to learning, what makes you think that my learning ambitions are "casual"? Your lack of true curiosity has shown your commitment to learning. Maybe the empty words of your profit can satisfy your empty curiosity.
I'm judging you based on what you posted. Islam to you means 72 virgins, which means not only that you have not read the Quran, but have not even bothered with something as basic as checking with the etymology or classical usage of the word huri you are referring to. As such I consider you a lazy learner, one who prefers to have others do their thinking for them.
And I rarely discuss science in a religion forum, since science is based on empiricism, repeatability and reproducibility and faith does not come under its purview. Similarly, if I want to read about William Shakespeare or Britney Spears, I do not open American Scientist or Pubmed.
Actually, when I referred to the "72 virgins", I was testing your knowledge. I wonder if you are aware of what it ACTUALLY means. Because I can tell you as a result of my own studies that it has been commonly misinterpreted.
I'm all ears, I hope you are not gonna give me the grapes bullshit.
Btw you should know that I read and speak Arabic (even though I am an Indian Muslim)
I'm all ears, I hope you are not gonna give me the grapes bullshit.
Btw you should know that I read and speak Arabic (even though I am an Indian Muslim)
Grapes? No not anything about grapes.
The Bible and the Koran are books based primarily on Astrology/Astronomy. The term "virgin" is related to the zodiac sign Virgo. Each year of the Coptic/Ethiopian calendars the new year begins with a yearly astrological event that is described in Revelations 12 (although most people think it refers to the end of the world, but they have misinterpreted this as well). Not to freak you out but the date I'm referring to is September 11. That is typically the first day of the year on those calendars (I say typically because of leap years). This happens in Virgo.
The number 72 is significant to the calendar as well. Every roughly 26,000 years the earth wobbles one full revolution on its axis. This is referred to as a great year. In what is referred to as the Precession of the Zodiac the Sun is said to pass through each house in reverse order every 2150 years, or what is called a great month. Each great month can be broken down into 30 great days of roughly 72 years each.
I believe the term "virgin" is an abstract form of "year" in this particular case. So by that I have interpreted that they will be given "72 years" in the afterlife.
But maybe you know something about the context of that phrase I am unaware of.
Cool about the Arabic. I'm working on Chinese, and I need to start Spanish badly.
Well you're original, I'll give you that.
The 72 does not appear in the Quran, so you can make it whatever you want.
Huri:
According to classical Arabic usage in the time when the Qur'an was recited by Muhammad, Hur'in is made of two words Hur and In. The word 'Hur' is the plural of both Ahwar (Masculine) and Hawra (Feminine) which literally translates into persons distinguished by Hawar, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity' (ref: Tafsir al'Tabari, and Tafsir al-Razi in 3:52). And as for the phrase, "In it is the plural of both 'Ayan' (Masculine) and 'Ainao' (Feminine)",[25] it was used to refer to the beautiful eyes of the wild-cow whose eyes are blond. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, the most appropriate English endering of the compound word Hur'In will be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[26] and it is applicable to both male and female.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri
Its part of a verse that describes a parable for heaven, and of course, describes what an ideal of peace and pleasure would be
Well you're original, I'll give you that.
The 72 does not appear in the Quran, so you can make it whatever you want.
Huri:
According to classical Arabic usage in the time when the Qur'an was recited by Muhammad, Hur'in is made of two words Hur and In. The word 'Hur' is the plural of both Ahwar (Masculine) and Hawra (Feminine) which literally translates into persons distinguished by Hawar, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity' (ref: Tafsir al'Tabari, and Tafsir al-Razi in 3:52). And as for the phrase, "In it is the plural of both 'Ayan' (Masculine) and 'Ainao' (Feminine)",[25] it was used to refer to the beautiful eyes of the wild-cow whose eyes are blond. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, the most appropriate English endering of the compound word Hur'In will be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[26] and it is applicable to both male and female.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri
Its part of a verse that describes a parable for heaven, and of course, describes what an ideal of peace and pleasure would be
Sorry I haven't read the Koran. I can see I will need to buy a copy.
Then where does everyone get the reference to "72 virgins". Are you telling me some fool made this up? I guess I'm not too surprised if that's the case, considering the propaganda campaign to deface the faith and followers of Islam. But if this is false where did they get it from?
We have a funny tradition in classical Islam, one that is good but gets us in trouble. We do not discard anything as irrelevant. Hence any scholar (and Tom, Dick and Harry) who wants to add to the body of knowledge that is Islamic history (and the Hadiths and Sunnah, based on oral traditions collected from 100 to 400 years after Mohammed's death) was allowed to express his ideas and they were added to the body of 'knowledge'.
Its good because even criticisms and analyses that opposed the ideas followed at the time were preserved. Its painful because people who do not know the system of isnad (citation) and ijtehad (critical analysis) consider everything as history, without pausing to think that oral traditions are different from the Quran (preserved as a recital) and especially when 'remembered' 100-400 years after the fact.
Plus many people do not know that not all the scholars were religious, some were also agnostic, some downright atheists and there are many explanations (like yours above) added to the cooking pot that are merely individual ideas and thoughts expounding on the verses.
The idea of the 72 virgins is just one of these.
We have a funny tradition in classical Islam, one that is good but gets us in trouble. We do not discard anything as irrelevant. Hence any scholar (and Tom, Dick and Harry) who wants to add to the body of knowledge that is Islamic history (and the Hadiths and Sunnah, based on oral traditions collected from 100 to 400 years after Mohammed's death) was allowed to express his ideas and they were added to the body of 'knowledge'.
Its good because even criticisms and analyses that opposed the ideas followed at the time were preserved. Its painful because people who do not know the system of isnad and ijtehad consider everything as history, without pausing to think that oral traditions are different from the Quran (preserved as a recital) and especially when 'remembered' 100-400 years after the fact.
Plus many people do not know that not all the scholars were religious, some were also agnostic, some downright atheists and there are many explanations (like yours above) added to the cooking pot that are merely individual ideas and thoughts expounding on the verses.
The idea of the 72 virgins is just one of these.
But where does the concept originate from? Is it from the writings of a Muslim or is it fabricated by some outsider?
Never mind that last post I got you. It was some Muslim scholar.
Kind of like what Milton's Paradise Lost did for the Bible! :scratchin: