Why is being nude so "wrong"?

shorty said:
Do you think it will still by totally ok with you if your daughter is walking around naked when she has breasts, and looks more like a woman? Do you think your husband would feel comfortable with that?
I can't answer for orleander, but I can tell you that what you describe is perfectly normal in many families, and some communities, and has been for generations.

But not the simplemindedness you ascribe to it. It is not heedless, or in denial. There is always a structure - areas in which nudity is OK, areas in which it would have wrong sexual meaning. Teenagers are monitored.

Many families swim nude, for example. Many Scandinavian families sauna nude. Some farm communes have outdoor, unscreened showers for coming in from the field or garden. Welsh coal miners washed the coal dust off in the main living room, sisters and daughters and wives fetching water and soap and towels for brothers and fathers and husbands.

I'm not sure the modesty obsessed actually understand how that looks to someone from a different tradition.

I can recall hearing Finnish housewives laughing at porn-obsessed Germans who were shocked at the casual nudity of the sauna.

There is a memoir tale of a Finnish immigrant in the early 1900s who, just off the boat in New York, saw a group of men whistling and cat-calling at a woman who had revealed her ankle stepping over a puddle. He thought they were retarded - not pejoratively, just in that way you feel sorry for the mentally deficient. He had seen many women's ankles, and everything else, and didn't understand the situation.

The roots of nonsensical modesty (bathing suits, little dolls with numbers for the doctor to ask questions about instead of direct examination, chadors and burkas, etc) seem, to me, to lie in traditions of economics and power. The powerful can buy and force personal access - and withold their own. The commoner cannot look at the King's Lady naked, cannot look at the King at all, but the King can look at anyone anytime - those privileges, like lawns, symbolize more than they effect.
 
I can recall hearing Finnish housewives laughing at porn-obsessed Germans who were shocked at the casual nudity of the sauna.

There is a memoir tale of a Finnish immigrant in the early 1900s who, just off the boat in New York, saw a group of men whistling and cat-calling at a woman who had revealed her ankle stepping over a puddle. He thought they were retarded - not pejoratively, just in that way you feel sorry for the mentally deficient. He had seen many women's ankles, and everything else, and didn't understand the situation.

The roots of nonsensical modesty (bathing suits, little dolls with numbers for the doctor to ask questions about instead of direct examination, chadors and burkas, etc) seem, to me, to lie in traditions of economics and power. The powerful can buy and force personal access - and withold their own. The commoner cannot look at the King's Lady naked, cannot look at the King at all, but the King can look at anyone anytime - those privileges, like lawns, symbolize more than they effect.

First, your talking about a group of guys and their idea of fun. Do you think nothing like that happens in Finland?

Lets not pretend that 'nonsensical' modesty means lack of sophistication i think it is more sophisticated to know when you should be wearing clothes. Did you ever see those women with their bellies hanging over their pants and those belly shirts...I would much prefer to not see this.
 
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holy crap! Seriously!? I've run around my brothers in a bikini, don't even tell me they thought of having sex with me!! I saw them in their underwear A LOT and it never crossed my mind. Is this common??

Of course not. I think those who view nudity as being a sexual invitation, or those who are obsessed with sex would think it was indeed common. To them, if one sibling sees another sibling of the opposite sex naked, then they must automatically want to have sex with them. I view individuals like that as being depraved to be honest. They are the ones with the issues.

But the majority of normal people out there would not think like that. In fact, I would be willing to bet everything I own that the greater majority of teenage boys would probably feel sick if someone even mentioned their being sexually attracted to their own sister.
 
But the majority of normal people out there would not think like that. In fact, I would be willing to bet everything I own that the greater majority of teenage boys would probably feel sick if someone even mentioned their being sexually attracted to their own sister.

I agree.
 
What if their sister is Elle Mcpherson? :D

She would still be the 'sister'. That whole saying of 'dude that's my sister you're talking about' comes to mind.

Try telling one of your friends that you think their sister is 'hot' and mention having sex with her and see what the reaction is.
 
In fact, I would be willing to bet everything I own that the greater majority of teenage boys would probably feel sick if someone even mentioned their being sexually attracted to their own sister.

I think you'd lose your bet if every young boy told the truth! And that's one of the problems, we're taught from a young age to lie about feelings like that, so researchers can't ever get any kind of accurate data.

When boys are young, and becoming interested in girls and sex, any girl with tits and an ass, sisters included, are going to make his little pecker stand up and take notice. Any young boy that can see a naked young girl, sister included, is going forget most things he's been taught about being "nice". The blood is goiing to be doing something else other than feeding his brain cells!! ...LOL!

Damn, I didn't realize that women were so fuckin' naive?! Perhaps that's why women get raped so fuckin' much? They walk around swingin' their cute little ass, with tits propped up with lift-bras, and they don't think men notice???

Baron Max
 
She would still be the 'sister'. That whole saying of 'dude that's my sister you're talking about' comes to mind.

Had a kid in high school who used to pimp for his sister!! Now ....what were you saying, Bells?

Try telling one of your friends that you think their sister is 'hot' and mention having sex with her and see what the reaction is.

No, no! Most wouldn't say something like that because they've been taught that it's not nice. But that don't stop their brains from fantacizing or their dicks from getting hard at the thoughts.

Baron Max
 
Supposedly Bells would see no problem with her husband casually enjoyin a cocktail in the nude with a woman and i dont know how or why The TaliS.A.M is so supportive of this.
 
Baron:
And that's one of the problems, we're taught from a young age to lie about feelings like that, so researchers can't ever get any kind of accurate data.

The scientific term to describe the above is 'acceptability bias'. :D
 
Supposedly Bells would see no problem with her husband casually enjoyin a cocktail in the nude with a woman...

Honestly, I see it as a complete naivete ....and I wouldn't have thought it actually existed in a woman as old and wrinkled as Bells!

.... and i dont know how or why The TaliS.A.M is so supportive of this.

Well, Sam is from India ....and some of the things that go on in India is simply beyond any of us normal people to comprehend. In India, the cops shoot people regularly, and Sam and her countrymen think nothing of it. But Sam gets all indignant when a cop in the USA tasers a criminal. See? Indians are just strange people, I guess. Then throw in Sam being Muslim on top of that and, well, ......

Baron Max
 
Supposedly Bells would see no problem with her husband casually enjoyin a cocktail in the nude with a woman and i dont know how or why The TaliS.A.M is so supportive of this.

What does that have to do with a brother or father seeing their sister or daughter naked and that being suddenly wrong?

I am sure my husband has enjoyed many drinks with women while being naked in the past. Nowdays however, we tend to not really drink and there aren't really any places where you can be served drinks while in the buff.

You are taking this topic to extremes. You have gone from how it is wrong for a male doctor to examine a female patient, to my husband now enjoying a drink while naked with a woman. All this from you and others saying that nakedness in the home should always be kept to a minimum as you seem to think it will automatically make the family incestuous. You're kind of sick John.

Baron_Max said:
Well, Sam is from India ....and some of the things that go on in India is simply beyond any of us normal people to comprehend. In India, the cops shoot people regularly, and Sam and her countrymen think nothing of it. But Sam gets all indignant when a cop in the USA tasers a criminal. See? Indians are just strange people, I guess. Then throw in Sam being Muslim on top of that and, well, ......
You criticise her morals and beliefs when yours would be more suited to the hick towns in Iran.
 
baron said:
Had a kid in high school who used to pimp for his sister!! Now ....what were you saying, Bells?
Bells was saying that that is depraved.

I agree. So is the rest of your schtick about "normal" boys - talking with their friends about how they'd like to do their own sisters? That isn't normal, Baron. Whatever kind of upbringing produces that, would be something to avoid.

john said:
First, your talking about a group of guys and their idea of fun. Do you think nothing like that happens in Finland?
I am saying that the guy from Finaland had never seen ordinary men act like that about an ankle - he didn't understand it. It looked like the behavior of mentally defective people, to him.

Imagine what it looks like to an American man to watch a group of men drooling over a woman's exposed face - making dirty jokes, hissing and catcalling, following her down the street. Something wrong with them, maybe?
john said:
Lets not pretend that 'nonsensical' modesty means lack of sophistication
Lets not pretend that it makes sense, either.
 
Everyone also shit and pissed whenever they wanted to, also, but that don't make it very acceptable while indulging in nice dinner at a nice restaurant! :D

Baron Max

I shit and piss in my house whenever I so desire, and so do you. Its the same for being nude. There is a HUGE difference between being nude in your home/resort and walking around in public. I thought that distinction had already been made.:confused:

Do you have sisters? I assume you had a mom and I'm assuming you thought of having sex with her when you were young since all boys apparently do. And the boy that pimped his sister, did he also sleep with her? This one guy is your example of what all boys do?
 
Damn, I didn't realize that women were so fuckin' naive?!

Baron Max

Again I am the odd woman out! jeez am I the only REAL woman here? lol
I have had this discussion with some other women recently. They also think the same way. Seems to be just here in Sci forums this all seems to be normal!

I also agree do you think a teenage boy would ADMIT he checked out his 15 yr old sister? come on now........:crazy:
 
do you have brothers shorty? Do you think your son checks you out (or will check you out) and thinks of sex with you?
 
Again I am the odd woman out! jeez am I the only REAL woman here? lol
I have had this discussion with some other women recently. They also think the same way. Seems to be just here in Sci forums this all seems to be normal!

I also agree do you think a teenage boy would ADMIT he checked out his 15 yr old sister? come on now........:crazy:

So in light of your argument, you checked out your brothers and/or father and thought about having sex with them? Do you think your father would have thought about having sex with you if he saw you naked as a young girl? Or your brothers if you had any? Do you think your being clothed would have made any difference if your family members were sexually attracted to you? Because this is what you are arguing here.
 
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