Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?

[Facial]

Even if the heating is not uniform, the steel still weakens enough for catastrophic collapse.

You also forgot another thing called creep.

 

[Facial]

The popping sounds - that's actually pretty interesting. Why would they plant explosives? Wouldn't toppling over maximize damage? And furthermore, how did they manage to plant them in the exact locations that the planes hit? Are the hijackers really that good at flying?

 

[Ophiolite]

The notion is that without the explosives planted systematically through the structure the buildings would not have collapsed. Personally, I would have been very surprised if there had not been popping sounds associated with such a collapse.

 

[geistkiesel]

I have never heard of this statement anywhere in the structural engineering department here.

Can you provide the links other than the single-handed Utah skeptic that can provide some better grounds for this?

Facial, The exact tempoerature of failure, the protection of insulation losses can be debated forever wiothout any foreseeable resolution. Pick the temperature of choice.

Then look at the real problem of the failure opf the steel structurees.
It is absolutely necessary that the first floor to fail that this failure be uniformly distributed over the area of the floor and all structural members simultaneoiusly. If otherwise, the upper portions of the building (above the collapsing floor) would have an induced sideways force component that, once started, would have proceeded in the direction of initial motion.

It is unlikely that the building could have oscillated and settled on a perfect straight down direction once an off vertical-axis of motion was observed. Do you agree?

Once you have gone through the improbability analysis of just one floor failing uniformly over the entire surface contaioning the steel support structures,then factor in the probability of two floors (one in each tower) failing uniformly and simultaneously.

Once thses analyses are completed then factor in the statements of firemen witnessing the collapsing building describing familiar sounding explosive charges preceeding each collapsed floor, pop, pop, pop, pop,.... . The firemen stated previous experience in controlled demolitions of buildings where explosive charges are placed in convenient/critical locations in the building to precisely determine the direction of collapse.
Geistkiesel​

 

[spidergoat]

You are incorrect. As soon as the steel outer structure lost the integrity to support the floors above, or the steel floor structures lost the integrity to keep the sides verticle, the whole floor would have collaped catastrophically. A small portion of the outer wall could not have survived long enough to induce tilting in the building above.

It's not improbable at all. And once this started, it was impossible for the whole thing not to go down uniformly. After all, the structure is identical from floor to floor and would thus collapse uniformly.

The fact that popping sounds sounded like explosive charges is interesting, but hardly proof that they were due to charges and not just snapping steel. I imagine that they would sound similar.

 

[leopold]

NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative
hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought
down by controlled demolition using explosives planted
prior to September 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any
evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers.
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/...205 final.pdf

 

[spidergoat]

NIST is a government agency! They must be in on it.

 

[leopold]

there is also video, plenty of it, of AIRPLANES flying into the towers

the NIST link i gave has material on how the towers were constructed

 

[geistkiesel]

The popping sounds - that's actually pretty interesting. Why would they plant explosives? Wouldn't toppling over maximize damage? And furthermore, how did they manage to plant them in the exact locations that the planes hit? Are the hijackers really that good at flying?

They plant explosives in critical locations to control and time the destruction of steel support members in the building and therefore control the collapse of the building.

Why are you second guessing the motives of those responbsible?

Why do you assume that any more damage than manifest was intended?

Figure out for youreself how someone can gain access and place charges of sufficent power to fracture support members.

The target of the airplanes and the target of those planting the explosions could easily be coordinated, especially with a sophisticated team of technical experts.

Your reference to "creep" does not negate the fact that the straight down motion of collapse requires a uniform and simultaneous failure over the entire floor area. I think you realize this. Are you truly conserned with the truth of the matter or do you just want to win an arguement, oor are you supporting one sode por another? Are you aiding anyone here?

The expertise of the flying skills of the skyjackers can best be handled with a reference to the Pentagon attack.

There the total absence of any Boeing 757 aircraft crash debris, including scattered alumninum all over the place, no 6 foot diameter fan jet engines, landing gear, tail or wing assemblies, body parts of crew, passengers or Islamic Fundamentalist Terroritsts (body parts and remains of civilian and military personnel woeking in the Pentagon, approiximately 100, were recovered), seats, luggage whatever -- nada, zip, none, nyet, zero, nil -- do you get the picture?.

Further the absence of a fire consistent with the burning of 8000 gallons of jet fuel (the fire would have lasted for days). Photographs of the Pentagon interior is totally inconsistent with burning jet fuel as was the penetration of three, two foot thick reinforced concrete walls, that had too snmall of holes to allow an entire Boeing 757 to sneak through.


All this means here is that a skyjacked airplane didn't strike the Pentagon Building nor did one impact the ground at Shankesville, Pa.
The same absence of crash debris and fire in the Shankesville, Pa crash is also indicative, persuavively so, that no aircraft of any size was involved in these incidents.

google(search) on 'pentagon 911' and you will be introduced to a plethora of information, visual media coverage, witness statements analysis and more.

The few reports of Arab looking men taking flying lesson in US flight simulator institutions were a sham con. Where one student laughingly stated that they wouldn't need to take landing instructions would have been a major breach of security had it been valid. Other "lapses in security" were also planted to create the myth of the fundamental Islamic terrorist - overheard conversations of Arab looking persons, leaving incriminating flight manuals in taxis.

How to fly an aircraft into a target:

The US has developed the technology to "computer guide" any aircraft from take-off to landing and could easily direct the aircraft to impact at any desired floor. The persons in ground control of the aircraft (or even in anorther small plane) could easily have monitored the flight path of the impacting aircraft by television cameras on board the attacking aircraft and then make any fine tuned adjustements if required.

I know the technology is developed as I have worked with similar systems in remote piloted aircraft that have the capability to maintain a constant designated laser on moving ground targets from 4 to 5 kilometer distance, while flying in a programmed figure eight pattern with no human control required.

The success of the 911 attaqcks required the very tightest of coordination and precision, evgen if the atytacks were conducted by "Fundamental Islamic Terrorists".

Finally, you are aware of the "FBI agents" that confiscated a security videotape from a commercial gasoloine station nearby the Pentagon minutes after the Pentagon exploded, are you not? Would Islamic Terrorists go to such trouble? How did the anglo, that is, white male, supposedly FBI agents, even know the videotape was there, unless they had made a pre-attack search of the area in order to discover the existence of such "evidence" that coulkd be secured before it was reviewed by honest investigators?

Why would domestic governmen t employees conduct such heinous crimes? What you see as the aftermnath is what you getr- War, invasioon, Homeland Security -- the nation secret police- destruction of the US Cnstitution the installation and securing of a government that is unlimited in the exercise of power, all of which you probably consider as "fafetched", don't you? Tyranny probablyu iosnm't a matter that concerns you, or your family, your children, friends, country , your sense of decency and your sense of an obligation to protect your country from such insidous bastards that perpetrated such hideous evil against citizens of your country. Maybe you cannot fathom the mere possibility that evil could ever get elected to high office in your government.

Maybe this is just an exercise that keeps you occupied, free from boredom, liking the exchange of debate, entertainment?
Geistkiesel​

 

[geistkiesel]

NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative
hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought
down by controlled demolition using explosives planted
prior to September 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any
evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers.
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/...205 final.pdf

NIST -gthjese arfe the people that seek and expose the truth. You know these people? Do you know their expertise, education, experience, poltical hiostory, where they were recruited and by whom? DO you know their history? Have you information of the history of NIST? Where and when created? Who were the sponsors of the organization?

SO, I see that you are willing to let the NIST solve all the contradictory facts and evidence. Is this it? Truth through empanelled officialdom?

Geistkiesel​

 

[leopold]

They plant explosives in critical locations to control and time the destruction of steel support members in the building and therefore control the collapse of the building.
​

why didn't the fire set the explosives off?​

 

[geistkiesel]

there is also video, plenty of it, of AIRPLANES flying into the towers

the NIST link i gave has material on how the towers were constructed

Did NIST discuss the necessity that the steel structures fail uniformly over the entire floor simultaneously in order that the collapse be straight down? Did they discuss the firemen's statements hearing the popping of explosive charges? What physical evidence was available to NIST is the analysis of the matter?

SO there are video of airplanes striking the buildings. Do the voideo prove conslusively these were the skyjacked American Airliners? Do the videos of which you refer show the unusual pods on the underside of the aircraft? Have these pods been discussed?

So you believe something about 911 and refuse to accept any contrary conclusions, is this it?
Try reviewing the media tapes and other information and taking an objective stance , if you know what I mean.

Geistkiesel​

 

[geistkiesel]

why didn't the fire set the explosives off?

First, what was the type of explosive? Personally,I don't know. Fire doesn't ignite every conceivable kind of explosive. If you had followed the post you would have seen that the explosives were ignited before the collapsing building reached the preplaced location of the explosives thatgwere distributed at various elevations within the buiilding.
Geistkiesel​

 

[leopold]

i am undecided about the matter
all the video i seen of the wtc impacts show airplanes hitting the towers

and you never answered my question
why didn't the fire set off the explosives?

 

[leopold]

First, what was the type of explosive? Personally,I don't know. Fire doesn't ignite every conceivable kind of explosive.

can you tell me what explosive is not ignited by the fires of wtc 1 and 2?

 

[geistkiesel]

NIST is a government agency! They must be in on it.

SO, your sarcasm is supoposed to offer something to the content of this thread? You just do not have the mental or emotional capacity to consdier the mere possibility that some evil mothjerfuckers have attacked your country, if indeed you consider the United States of America as your country, if indeed you even have a concept of what a country is. I cannot control your opinions, nor it seems can you, nor do I give a shit about your motives or agenda, all of which are inconsequential to anything of importance with repsect to 911.
Geistkiesel​

 

[leopold]

if you watch the video of the collapse it clearly shows the collapse initiated where the plane impacted

 

[geistkiesel]

can you tell me what explosive is not ignited by the fires of wtc 1 and 2?

I told you I did not know what kind of explosives were used. That I do have this answer does not negate the facts nor the possibillity they were used.
Geistkiesel​

 

[geistkiesel]

if you watch the video of the collapse it clearly shows the collapse initiated where the plane impacted

So what?
Geistkiesel​

 

[leopold]

I told you I did not know what kind of explosives were used. That I do have this answer does not negate the facts nor the possibillity they were used.
Geistkiesel​

i found an explosives website and i sent them an email requesting info on this subject
i will post it when i receive it