So i cant stop him if he wants to stop my actions, this leads to two things, either i dont have free will as he can stop me, or he could have stopped me but chose not to, if i wanted to kill someone then god could stop it, so if he doesnt is he not just as bad as me? Your arguement isnt getting any better.
Why doesn't God just show himself?
- Thread starter moementum7
- Start date
Jenyar,
Question is: To whom?
It means exactly what it is: Love IS. Full stop.
To define is to limit.
If my love ain't good enough for a Christian -- then this is the Christian's problem, not mine. And it is not fair that Christians are trying to make it my problem.
Question is: To whom?
It means exactly what it is: Love IS. Full stop.
To define is to limit.
If my love ain't good enough for a Christian -- then this is the Christian's problem, not mine. And it is not fair that Christians are trying to make it my problem.
Why should it be a problem for anyone? "Love is" is so... agnostic. Just to create a word for something is already to "define a limit". A rose is a rose is a rose, remember? And yet, "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet".
Love means everything to God. As people often remark here, doing something out of ignorance can be dangerous, and I daresay that love without boundaries - without words and deeds that at least circumscribes it - is just as prone to abuse. Certainyly, we won't call it "love" anymore, and God wouldn't recongize it as love anymore, but some might - some already do.
Love means everything to God. As people often remark here, doing something out of ignorance can be dangerous, and I daresay that love without boundaries - without words and deeds that at least circumscribes it - is just as prone to abuse. Certainyly, we won't call it "love" anymore, and God wouldn't recongize it as love anymore, but some might - some already do.
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Oh, you know this because you know god eh?
MAN. That shit drives me absolutely insane.
Anthropomorphize your fantasies to satiate your emotional problems (which usually stem from this same problem in people you care about, putting this perfectly into the context of a meme), then talk shit like you are familiar with this other personality you've created in your own mind and THEN start telling everyone about how you know what the creator of the universe thinks on standard emotional issues like "love" and such. PREACH ON.
The most offensive thing to me in the WORLD, is for some ASSHAT to tell me what god thinks. The unmitigated presumptuous arrogance!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you "tell me what god thinks" because "you know god" you say "yeah well you're just not listening to god, if you did, you'd know what I said is true".
That's just straight insidious and evil as far as I'm concerned.
It's not as if I just suck this out of my thumb, you know. I didn't invent these things in my own mind - I'm testifying to what has been confirmed long before I came along. And I can say it with confidence because it's true, not because I'd like it to be true.
1 Cor.13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
I have said before that I'm not talking about "standard emotional issues", either.wesmorris said:Oh, you know this because you know god eh?
MAN. That shit drives me absolutely insane.
Anthropomorphize your fantasies to satiate your emotional problems (which usually stem from this same problem in people you care about, putting this perfectly into the context of a meme), then talk shit like you are familiar with this other personality you've created in your own mind and THEN start telling everyone about how you know what the creator of the universe thinks on standard emotional issues like "love" and such. PREACH ON.
The most offensive thing to me in the WORLD, is for some ASSHAT to tell me what god thinks. The unmitigated presumptuous arrogance!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you "tell me what god thinks" because "you know god" you say "yeah well you're just not listening to god, if you did, you'd know what I said is true".
That's just straight insidious and evil as far as I'm concerned.
Such pompous arrogance.
All we know about God is what He has told us (in the Bible or through the Holy Spirit or through people the Holy Spirit reveals to) and what we see in nature.
Since you refuse to see the latter, you are left with the former which you now refuse. By your statements, to believe, only God can tell you what He thinks in order for there to be some authenticity to the statement, which is just pompous arrogance... :bugeye:
endlessDarkmatter
Registered Member
If god showed him self everything that happend before would not matter any more . The point of him not showing him self to us is that so he can really see whats in our hearts. If we could see him, we would act the same way when are parents are around.(makeing shore not to do anything to upset them) I think God is something that has been around sence the beginning, and is waiting for just the right time. ( even tho i think the right time was like maybe 6 or 7 years ago )Also i think the another reasion why god has not showed him self is cause we are too much into tecnology. we used to pray to god to help us get stuff doen now we just go to a soulless computer and have everything doen for us . Yes it's much eazyer for are lives but as a people we are slowly not beliveing in god and more in are selfs and tecnology.Thanks to cloneing and other things be are becomeing mini gods are selfs so why would he show himself to a buch of ingreats ?
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Jenyar wrote: Just to create a word for something is already to "define a limit".
Naw! To put a label on a thing, or to put a thing in a category, but a "word"? No, not unless the word is a label. The word cup was originated by someone. That did not limit it. Cups are used to drink from.... to store pencils, ....to hold flowers...get my point?
pmt
Naw! To put a label on a thing, or to put a thing in a category, but a "word"? No, not unless the word is a label. The word cup was originated by someone. That did not limit it. Cups are used to drink from.... to store pencils, ....to hold flowers...get my point?
pmt
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Hi p.m.thorne.
And greeting to you, Mario!
YOU WROTE: Sorry if I seem ambiguous. I do meander alot. And I always had a hard time of putting my thoughts down on pixels. I think I also use a lot of symbolism perhaps. Anyway. I'm trying to look at creation in a very hard and literal sense.
Why for?
You wrote:…… Knowing that the force of these storms would kill innocent lives easily?
You wrote: Most storms do not kill a lot of people. Just what do you mean by innocent lives, Mario?
What is so innocent about them? Are you speaking of children?
You wrote: these moving plates can cause tremendous damage and loss of innocent life
To this, I also say, only in extreme cases is there mush loss of life, innocent or otherwise.
You wrote: You mentioned about people's purpose and evil is force that stops or interferes in finding this purpose.
Are you contending that storms and other so called “acts of God” are evil?
You asked this question: Exactly how do you find your purpose that god wants you to have?
Here is my best shot, Mario: By being aware of yourself and of the universe, by listening, by desire………. If you truly desire to know…you will find out.
You wrote: Is it jumping form job to job until you find something you like?
Now, see, Mario, this is part of what I mean. Tell me what you think about that question, if you will. Is it as disenchanted as it seems? If so, I submit that perhaps you are looking in the wrong places. Not that I do not sympathize with the disappointments in the job market, but this has never been the source of my spiritual strength.
You asked: Do you feel it in your heart?
From my experience, definitely. In fact, I think I kind of feel it all over. Once I really got it, it seemed to come alive in every fiber of my being. It is such a good feeling, maybe because it took me a while. I kept getting in my way!
You wrote: Can a street person say he found his true purpose?
That is not for me to say. Hypotheticals do not merit much thought.
You wrote: Can a person that was born physically or mentally handicapped find his true purpose?
Why not? This is more a generalization than hypothetical, as it deals with birth defects rather than choices. I say, we are all handicapped in one way or another, according to man’s definitions.
You wrote this too: Can a starving baby in africa who doesn't live past his 3rd birthday fullfilled god's purpose in life?
I have never been to Africa; however, I did lose a child, and yes, I am sure that he served his purpose.
You wrote: It's a nice thought that each and everyone of us has a purpose that god wants us to fullfill. But unless he phones you up directly and tells you then how can we be sure?
Oh, I think our purpose needs to be something we want. However, I will agree that love of God and his creation inspires this purpose. (Incidentally, your comment about he phones seems a bit pretentious and insincere to me, insomuch as it is ridiculous.)
You wrote: PS...can being a bad example be a purpose?
Your purpose for living can be anything you want it to be; notwithstanding, a worthy purpose can only be wrought with your being in harmony with the universe, this being God and His creation, (which, incidentally includes yourself).
I will respond to your comments on free will on another post.
pmt
And greeting to you, Mario!
YOU WROTE: Sorry if I seem ambiguous. I do meander alot. And I always had a hard time of putting my thoughts down on pixels. I think I also use a lot of symbolism perhaps. Anyway. I'm trying to look at creation in a very hard and literal sense.
Why for?
You wrote:…… Knowing that the force of these storms would kill innocent lives easily?
You wrote: Most storms do not kill a lot of people. Just what do you mean by innocent lives, Mario?
What is so innocent about them? Are you speaking of children?
You wrote: these moving plates can cause tremendous damage and loss of innocent life
To this, I also say, only in extreme cases is there mush loss of life, innocent or otherwise.
You wrote: You mentioned about people's purpose and evil is force that stops or interferes in finding this purpose.
Are you contending that storms and other so called “acts of God” are evil?
You asked this question: Exactly how do you find your purpose that god wants you to have?
Here is my best shot, Mario: By being aware of yourself and of the universe, by listening, by desire………. If you truly desire to know…you will find out.
You wrote: Is it jumping form job to job until you find something you like?
Now, see, Mario, this is part of what I mean. Tell me what you think about that question, if you will. Is it as disenchanted as it seems? If so, I submit that perhaps you are looking in the wrong places. Not that I do not sympathize with the disappointments in the job market, but this has never been the source of my spiritual strength.
You asked: Do you feel it in your heart?
From my experience, definitely. In fact, I think I kind of feel it all over. Once I really got it, it seemed to come alive in every fiber of my being. It is such a good feeling, maybe because it took me a while. I kept getting in my way!
You wrote: Can a street person say he found his true purpose?
That is not for me to say. Hypotheticals do not merit much thought.
You wrote: Can a person that was born physically or mentally handicapped find his true purpose?
Why not? This is more a generalization than hypothetical, as it deals with birth defects rather than choices. I say, we are all handicapped in one way or another, according to man’s definitions.
You wrote this too: Can a starving baby in africa who doesn't live past his 3rd birthday fullfilled god's purpose in life?
I have never been to Africa; however, I did lose a child, and yes, I am sure that he served his purpose.
You wrote: It's a nice thought that each and everyone of us has a purpose that god wants us to fullfill. But unless he phones you up directly and tells you then how can we be sure?
Oh, I think our purpose needs to be something we want. However, I will agree that love of God and his creation inspires this purpose. (Incidentally, your comment about he phones seems a bit pretentious and insincere to me, insomuch as it is ridiculous.)
You wrote: PS...can being a bad example be a purpose?
Your purpose for living can be anything you want it to be; notwithstanding, a worthy purpose can only be wrought with your being in harmony with the universe, this being God and His creation, (which, incidentally includes yourself).
I will respond to your comments on free will on another post.
pmt
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Wesmorris: You are choice! No one has to wonder what you think, or how you feel, and I find that humorous. Yet, I also appreciate your feelings. The other day I received an email, with this long message, signed God, and I came unglued. I hate that. Who? Why? and Shoot! I do not like it!
Pmt
Pmt
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Greetings and hallucinations!
LEMMING: I'd say thats fairly accurate, nonsense is a waste of time, and time in this short life is precious, especially for one like me who believes this is the one chance we get and have to live it, in a way i agree with something you said but i would change it slightly for my beliefs, we should do right because we love, if we all showed compassion the world would be better, somebodys reasoning behind why they would be compassionate is not important, its if they are or not that matters.
pmt: I respect that. To clarify, I believe that in loving one another we show love to God. Further, I believe that we do not show love to God, and cannot, without loving one another. This is, of course, because, I believe that we, nature, the universe, are His creation and, therefore, a part of Him and the converse.
LEMMING: Likewise those of other religions have their favorite verses, i am fairly familiar with the bible, i did once make an effort to read it.
pmt: Hey! All my favorite quotes are not in the Bible. I guess I was just being a bit of a butt, because I think people often use the scriptures to prove what they prefer to think. Nonetheless, there are some really powerful, inspiring verses therein. But, other writings do inspire too, okay?
LEMMING: For my life i simply have a few sensible quotes of my own to live by, live life to the full, be happy, make others happy(in a way i guess 'do unto others as you would want others to do unto you' would fit aswel, im sure all religions have a similar verse), i wish to enjoy life and i wish others to enjoy it too, the possibility it may be all they get is there and i wouldnt want people to miss out on anything.
pmt: Nice concept. I think one of my favorites is this: People may forget what you said; or, they may even forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel.
Have a rewarding journey!
LEMMING: I'd say thats fairly accurate, nonsense is a waste of time, and time in this short life is precious, especially for one like me who believes this is the one chance we get and have to live it, in a way i agree with something you said but i would change it slightly for my beliefs, we should do right because we love, if we all showed compassion the world would be better, somebodys reasoning behind why they would be compassionate is not important, its if they are or not that matters.
pmt: I respect that. To clarify, I believe that in loving one another we show love to God. Further, I believe that we do not show love to God, and cannot, without loving one another. This is, of course, because, I believe that we, nature, the universe, are His creation and, therefore, a part of Him and the converse.
LEMMING: Likewise those of other religions have their favorite verses, i am fairly familiar with the bible, i did once make an effort to read it.
pmt: Hey! All my favorite quotes are not in the Bible. I guess I was just being a bit of a butt, because I think people often use the scriptures to prove what they prefer to think. Nonetheless, there are some really powerful, inspiring verses therein. But, other writings do inspire too, okay?
LEMMING: For my life i simply have a few sensible quotes of my own to live by, live life to the full, be happy, make others happy(in a way i guess 'do unto others as you would want others to do unto you' would fit aswel, im sure all religions have a similar verse), i wish to enjoy life and i wish others to enjoy it too, the possibility it may be all they get is there and i wouldnt want people to miss out on anything.
pmt: Nice concept. I think one of my favorites is this: People may forget what you said; or, they may even forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel.
Have a rewarding journey!
Yes, but people won't burn you at the stake for using a cup to store pencils or any other unorthodox usage. But, you might get burned at the stake for trying to say the bible is a load of crap. In some cultures anyway.
And i respect that, We will never all have the same beliefs, so its more a matter of accepting we are all different and that it doesnt make people bad because they dont agree with a certain thing.
I like that, it makes sense.
You too, strangly i always find the journey tends to be better than the destination.
§outh§tar said:
How much pompous arrogance does it take to preach from a book? What about to pretend that your book is representative of the creator of the universe? IMO, that is about as pompous and arrogant as it gets.
Who is 'we'? You mean "believers"? How do you know that "believers" believe the same thing? You think Jenyar thinks it's cool for you to speak for him in that context? What about Rosa? What about PMT? Should we all just accept your vision as what "we" see? Have you considered the possiblity that your idea of ME for instance, in your mind, is really the equivalent of a stimulus-based imaginary friend, and vice-versa? What if your "holy spirit" is a delusion, made up by you in the same sense that people anthopomorphize the construct in their mind of their friends, or people they interact with? Why is god more than your imaginary friend? Why are you so sure? You don't think that your sureness is pompous or arrogant?
God is definately real, but only as a fantasy in the minds of those who contemplate god. Any further assertion of god is pure arrogant tripe.
How the shit do you know what I refuse to do? What if I'm a lot smarter than you and I simply see past your stupid crap? What if I'm a lot more stupid than you and, no matter how many times you repeat your 'truth', I can't possibly get it because I'm literally incapable? What if, due to the way my mind is shaped (in the abstract sense), there is no way to see your perspective? What if it's the other way around? What about both? You are simply smarmy and sanctimonious to accuse me of "refusing to see".
So what, I should take YOUR word for it right? Maybe Jenyars? LOL. Who is pompous and arrogant?
Got ASSHAT?