Why Does God Exist?

The Evelyonian said:
Nope, sorry, I don't know the mind of God. The Bible says to worship God "in spirit and in truth" intrepret that in your own way.
And what is the Bible?


Correction: Both of us are willing to entertain the possibility that our presumptions are wrong.
Good.
The msot sensible thing you've said so far.

Actually that name was given to me by someone else. HINT: It wasn't God or anyone else from the Bible or any other holy book.
Are you sure it wasn't the Bible?
I can’t take a shit without consulting it.

Feel free to consider this a test of your faith.
It’ll gain you points with then Big Guy.

When all this is over, will you ate least send me a taunting post-card from heaven when I’m in hell?
I’ll need the support.
 
The E,

No, an agnostic doesn't know if God exists or not and in some cases doesn't care.
No, that is an atheist. Agnosticism is an epistemological position whereas atheism is a theological position. An agnostic says gods are unknowable, and an agnostic could be theist or atheist. An atheist simply lacks belief in the existence of gods.

I'm not an agnostic, I'm believe in the existence of God.
Yet you claim him unknowable and that makes you an agnostic theist.

I have no interest in imposing a moral code on anyone nor would I ever try.
Very commendable. So you don’t subscribe to evangelism then, right?

How you choose to live your life is your business, or to put it another way, that's between you and God.
Only if you could show a god exists.
 
Satyr said:
And what is the Bible?
It's a holy book written thousands of years ago by various authors. It's still in use today. You can find one at any book store or church.


Satyr said:
Good.
The msot sensible thing you've said so far.
Uh-oh, if Satyr's saying I'm making sense then I really must be going off the deep end.

Satyr said:
Are you sure it wasn't the Bible?
Yep, positive

Satyr said:
I can’t take a shit without consulting it.

Hey, what you do in the bathroom is your business.
 
The Evelyonian said:
It's a holy book written thousands of years ago by various authors. It's still in use today. You can find one at any book store or church.
And why should I care?
There are billions of books on the market, what makes this special?
What about the Khoran?
What about ‘Lord of the Rings’? That’s a pretty special and magical book about good/evil and myth and metaphor.


Uh-oh, if Satyr's saying I'm making sense then I really must be going off the deep end.

Yep, positive
Damn!!!
You aren’t playing.

You’ve now reverted to the defensive strategy of cutesy and witticisms.
Tell me, do you not even recognize a conflict of interest in your beliefs?

Hey, what you do in the bathroom is your business.
I’m going to the bathroom on you…you just call it fertilizer for your faith.

It could be the case that your stupidity is too powerful for reason.
It’s Superman’s Kryptonite. Like hitting a brick wall.

Too thick to notice that its crumbing and not worth the bleeding knuckles and sweat.

I’ve always said that a mind that is gullible and simple enough to fall for Christian arguments is not worth the effort.
Let it believe what it must.
 
Cris said:
The E,

No, that is an atheist. Agnosticism is an epistemological position whereas atheism is a theological position. An agnostic says gods are unknowable, and an agnostic could be theist or atheist. An atheist simply lacks belief in the existence of gods. Yet you claim him unknowable and that makes you an agnostic theist

No, God is not unknowable. God cannot be fully comprehended or fully understood. There's a difference. To know God exists is different then knowing everything about Him.

Cris said:
Very commendable. So you don’t subscribe to evangelism then, right?

No, I subscribe to evangelism. Evangelism tells people that "you should live this way. but it's your choice.". Forcing it on people says " You'll live this way wheter you want to or not."

Cris said:
Only if you could show a god exists.
Believe it or not God has given you evidence that He exists. It's up to you to find it for yourself.
 
Satyr said:
And why should I care?
There are billions of books on the market, what makes this special?
What about the Khoran?
What about ‘Lord of the Rings’? That’s a pretty special and magical book about good/evil and myth and metaphor.

The Qur'an is viewed as a holy book by the Muslims. Lord of the Rings is viewed as a holy book by SciFi fanatics.


Satyr said:
Damn!!!
You aren’t playing.

You’ve now reverted to the defensive strategy of cutesy and witticisms.
Tell me, do you not even recognize a conflict of interest in your beliefs?

enlighten me.
 
The Evelyonian said:
The Qur'an is viewed as a holy book by the Muslims. Lord of the Rings is viewed as a holy book by SciFi fanatics.
There’s the defensiveness again.

That’s not what I asked.

enlighten me.
So you don’t.
Figures.

I bet you see all the faults in the….how do you spell it….Qur’an.

So, tell me about your Bible.
What’s special about it so as to justify my lifelong dedication to it?
What’s its message?
Why is it better than other Books?
 
The E,

Believe it or not God has given you evidence that He exists.
That seems unlikely. I've yet to see anything that shows gods are possible let alone that one might exist. What type of evidence did you have in mind.

It's up to you to find it for yourself.
Why?
 
Cris said:
You are almost there. But it must have form, and it could have an end.

Form needs to be formed, so causes can't have any form. Effects can't cause anything because they are the result of causes.
 
Satyr said:
There’s the defensiveness again.

Not defensiveness. You've responded to everything I've said with ridicule. I was just returning the favor.

Satyr said:
So, tell me about your Bible.
What’s special about it so as to justify my lifelong dedication to it?
What’s its message?
Why is it better than other Books?

The core message of the Bible is this:

There is a God.
He knows you better than you know yourself.
He loves you anyway.

You don't dedicate your life to a book. You dedicate your life to God. You realize that you are a sinner separated from God and that no matter how good you are in this life, unless you reconcile yourself to Him, you're going to hell. I know it's not a popular message but it's the truth. Now, before you ask something like "If God loves us why would He send us to hell?" Yes God loves you, but God is also just. Know that God doesn't want any to go to hell that's why He sent Jesus to die on the cross for your sins. So that you could be reconciled to God. The penalty for sin is death and by dying on the cross Jesus took your death penalty upon Himself so that you wouldn't have to suffer for eternity. In doing that the door to heaven was opened. All you have to do to enter is admit to God you are sinner and you need Him. You have to repent of your sins and accept God into your life. You have to do this sincerely. You cannot fool God. There is no other way but this.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6
 
C7,

Form needs to be formed, so causes can't have any form.
No that is a non-sequitur. I believe I have already taught you that something must exist or have existed that has/had an infinite past, this must be true since nothing could have begun otherwise.

This something cannot be nothing since nothing is capable of starting anything and nothing represents non-existence.

So this something also must have form because without form it would be nothing and we know nothing is non-existence.

So your second phrase is also incorrect.
If something exists it must have form.
Only something that exists can be a cause.
Therefore every cause must have form.

Effects can't cause anything because they are the result of causes.
No that is also invalid.

Effects are the result of a cause and a cause can be an effect from a preceding cause. There is nothing that says we cannot have a chain of causes and effects.
 
spidergoat said:
So, heaven didn't exist before Jesus? Where did all those Jews go?

It's referred to in the Bible as "Sheol". It isn't hell but it isn't heaven either. It's simply a state of existence. After Jesus' crucifixion the gospel was preached to the souls in Sheol. This is made mention of in 1 Peter. Whether or not any were redeemed, the Bible does not say. Heaven existed before Jesus, but mankind had no hope of getting there. We were still separated from God because of sin and there was nothing to bridge the gulf between humanity and God. That's what Jesus did when He died on the cross.
 
The E,

You don't dedicate your life to a book.
But Christians do commit themselves to what they read in a book.

You dedicate your life to God.
No not really. Christians dedicate themselves to the concept of a God. No one has yet shown that an actual god exists.

You realize that you are a sinner separated from God and that no matter how good you are in this life, unless you reconcile yourself to Him, you're going to hell.
This comes from the concept of authoritarian intimidation typical of the primitive cultures that gave rise to the biblical texts. It is essentially a crude rule by threat.

I know it's not a popular message but it's the truth.
No it isn’t. It is primitive and naïve and a foolish fantasy.

Now, before you ask something like "If God loves us why would He send us to hell?"
I think we can move way past such childish. The question should be why would an omnipotent god design and create something so hideous. If he wanted us to behave then he could have designed it so.

Yes God loves you, but God is also just.
That can’t be true. If he was omnipotent he could have designed us perfect. Since we are not perfect then that was a deliberate action for which we cannot be held responsible. That we fail is because of his design. If we are then punished for his fault then that is not just.

Know that God doesn't want any to go to hell that's why He sent Jesus to die on the cross for your sins.
Elaborate gibberish. If he hadn’t screwed up his design in the first instance he wouldn’t have needed the son charade. If he is perfect then he couldn’t screw-up. If he isn’t perfect then Christian claims are false and he simply doesn’t exist.

So that you could be reconciled to God.
But the original problem was his design choice not ours.

The penalty for sin is death
But that wasn’t our fault so we can’t be held responsible

and by dying on the cross Jesus took your death penalty upon Himself so that you wouldn't have to suffer for eternity.
But he didn’t die. He was allegedly resurrected. Now if he had died a permanent death then that could be understood as a real sacrifice but otherwise the whole crucifixion appears like a meaningless farce.

In doing that the door to heaven was opened.
Which God using his omnipotence could have done without the Christ farce.

All you have to do to enter is admit to God you are sinner and you need Him.
And then feel free to sin at will remembering to frequently ask for forgiveness to ensure you keep your key to heaven. Naïve nonsense. In reality, if you make a mistake it is undoable and you must learn to live with the consequences and take responsibility for your actions. Christianity offers the gullible a way to think they can escape their responsibilities. A thoroughly reprehensible paradigm.

You have to repent of your sins and accept God into your life. You have to do this sincerely. You cannot fool God. There is no other way but this.
Except when you forget and fall back on old ways – just renew your membership when needed, with sincerity each time of course.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6
Wonderfully childish. Pity it doesn’t mention or stress a need to live responsibly.
 
Your evasiveness forces you to avoid stating that you believe that the Bible is the word of God.
Presumably there is a piece of you that still sees how ridiculous this sounds and you want to play the defensive strategy of making no claims and to simply respond to attacks.
This defensive tactic allows you to feign open-mindedness and aloofness when your given propositions that God exists and that He speaks to you through a Book, written by shady characters with whatever motives, is an unquestionable fact in your mind.

The ancient Greeks perfected the practice of ambiguity.

Their Delphic oracles used to make predictions and issue decrees using such vague language that the listener, like in the case of fortune tellers and Nostradamus, is forced to make the necessary connections on his own, if he believes hard enough, to make them valid.
The artistry of the Bible is in that it never says anything directly and clearly. It hints and insinuates and remains vague enough to remain relevant through the ages.

Biblical studies are really attempts to harmonize Scripture with current scientific and cultural realities.
The Bible is reinterpreted very so often, to fit into the prevailing social beliefs.
It’s a game of catch-up.
The Evelyonian said:
The core message of the Bible is this:

There is a God.
He knows you better than you know yourself.
He loves you anyway.
And you accept this as 'truth' on what grounds?
What is YOUR train of thought which leads you to accept this hypothesis as convincing enough to believe in?

If all it takes is a book then I can give you many books telling you what God thinks and what to do to gain exclusive access to heaven.

There is a God
On what evidence?
A book telling you isn't proof it’s an excuse a justification.
He knows you better than you know yourself.
How presumptuous of Him and of you to think so.

I know you better than you know yourself, because you sound like an imbecile,….does that make me your God?

He loves you anyway
How touching.
Yet hell awaits me if I do not submit to His authority, like you have.
What an exclusive club you've got there.

Like a parent which punishes his son for not obeying him or for attempting to surpass him.
Not even a human parent would be so callous and vain as your 'loving' god.

If God knows me better than I know myself and if He is omniscient then He already knows what I will do and why.
Why the games, then?

If you say that He has given me free-will then I would say that this then constitutes Him not omniscient, since He knows not what I will choose, and if He’s created my nature than He’s seeded me with my own destruction.

Furthermore the free-will is a fraud since He then asks for it to be submissive to His.
How is a will free when it’s only freedom is to enslave itself to another’s or else face damnation?

Which god is so vain so as to demand worship and acknowledgement using threats and promises?

If He is absolute good and love then how does He allow hate and evil; a tainted creation.
If He allows it He either is not omnipotent or not absolutely good or toying with us.

Just for the hell of it, describe Love to me.
What does it mean?
You don't dedicate your life to a book. You dedicate your life to God.
But God supposedly speaks to you through this Book, dictated to humans and written ambiguously so as to be interpreted in multiple ways.

So, you are dedicating your life to a book which hypothetically was dictated to men by God.
On what ground do you accept this as fact?
You realize that you are a sinner separated from God and that no matter how good you are in this life, unless you reconcile yourself to Him, you're going to hell.
Do you "realize" this or are you told that this is so.

I refuse to consider myself a “sinner”.
I am to make restitutions for what?
For being what I was created to be?
For not surpassing myself towards what ideal?
For being born?
What is my "sin"?

This is your burden. The Jewish shame.
Nothing external to me decides how I think of myself or else I cannot say that I possess free-will or that I love myself unconditionally.

Furthermore you measure your reward not by how ‘good’ you are in this life but in how much you’ve subjugated yourself to this hypothetical God.
This God isn’t interested in goodness at all but in my acceptance and worship of Him.
What a pathetically vain god, you’ve got there.
I know it's not a popular message but it's the truth.
The “truth”?!
What an absolute declaration.

Do you have arguments or only declarations?

"The Book says so." isn't an argument.
Now, before you ask something like "If God loves us why would He send us to hell?" Yes God loves you, but God is also just.
God judges you in accordance to how you’ve adhered to His demands and then punishes you or rewards you?
This is your understanding of “justice”?

It’s like saying:
I make the rules in my house.
I then punish my son for not following them with eternal suffering.
And I remain a good and compassionate parent?

Know that God doesn't want any to go to hell that's why He sent Jesus to die on the cross for your sins.
He offers a sacrifice to appease whom? Himself?
He sends his only son (We’re just the cousins presumably) to die for the sins he’s created by issuing rules.
So, in essence, he sacrifices his son to pay for the sins against the rules he’s issued.
Wow!!!

So that you could be reconciled to God. The penalty for sin is death and by dying on the cross Jesus took your death penalty upon Himself so that you wouldn't have to suffer for eternity.
Why would I have to suffer for eternity beforehand?

In doing that the door to heaven was opened.
And it was closed by whom?

Furthermore prove the necessity of a “paradise”.
On what grounds do you assume your life deserves eternity or that you are special enough to merit special consideration?

Describe paradise for us all.

All you have to do to enter is admit to God you are sinner and you need Him. You have to repent of your sins and accept God into your life. You have to do this sincerely. You cannot fool God. There is no other way but this.
So, in order to save myself I have to submit to that which I am to be saved from?
How convenient.
It’s one of those circular arguments with no logic.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6
And who told you that Jesus said this?
You believe the meaning is literal?

What a nice monopoly on salvation Christians have there.

Are you really this dim-witted or ...wait you aren't American are you?
 
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Yes, God could have made us perfect creatures unable to do wrong but then free will goes out the window. We have to follow God by choice. Hell was not created for humans, it was created for "the devil and his angels". The original sin is what separated us from God. Adam and Eve were created to be perfect creatures. They would live forever in paradise. God only asked them to do one simple thing. He gave them a commaned to not "eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Obviously the Bible isn't referring to an actual tree but it is symbolic for something else, what I don't know. The point is that they were given this one command and they disobeyed it. Satan entered the garden and tempted them by saying that the "fruit of the tree" would make them like God. They ate from the tree and lost everything, paradise, immortality, everything. This was not flaw in God's design. This was free will. Adam and Eve had a choice and they made the wrong one.
Now, we can honestly say that Adam and Eve's actions were not our fault so why should we be punished because of it. It is because of the fact that after the fall, humanity is now born with an inherently sinful nature. I've heard it put that "You do not have to teach children to be bad, you have to teach them to be good". No one on earth is capable of living a perfect life yet that was the only way to enter heaven. God is perfect therefore His standard is perfection and God knew that no one could live up to it. That's why He sent Jesus. As I said before the penalty for sin is death. It has been since Eden. God is just and will punish sin. Jesus died on the cross fulfilling the law and taking the death penalty of mankind upon Himself. He was then raised from the dead to prove he had victory over death. Death is not the end.
You will still exist after death. Your soul will exist forever. Where it exists, heaven or hell, is your choice. God gave you free will. He could have made you nothing more than a puppet on strings but because He loves you He gave you the ability to choose for yourself. God will not force you. The choice is yours and yours alone.

Cris said:
And then feel free to sin at will remembering to frequently ask for forgiveness to ensure you keep your key to heaven.

No, that isn't how it works. God will punish sin. "Once saved, always saved" doesn't apply. Jesus said "Remember Lot's wife". In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Lot and his family were safe. God simply told them "Don't look back". Lot's wife disobeyed God and it cost her her life.

When someone chooses to follow God that doesn't mean that from then on they're perfect and can do what ever they want. People who follow God are still human with the same weaknesses as everyone else. They sin just like everyone else. That's where forgiveness comes in. If you repent honestly of your sin you can be forgiven but you cannot think that you are free to sin because God will forgive you. If you repent with the intention of going back to your same old ways your playing a very dangerous game. God is no fool. He knows you better than you know yourself.
 
Your persistence is making this fun.
I was afraid you might bolt for a while, but you’re too thick to realize yet.
:p Good.
The Evelyonian said:
Yes, God could have made us perfect creatures unable to do wrong but then free will goes out the window. We have to follow God by choice.
We have to sacrifice our Will and sumbit ours to His, right?
Our will is a farce. A gift we cannot use, a choice with only one option and an undesirable second option.

Hell was not created for humans, it was created for "the devil and his angels".
Whoah…more bit players.
All we need now is Frodo and Gollum and we’ve got a Book.
All of this “information”, of course, comes from…the Book, right?
The Book, in fact, is self-supporting.
It is proof of its own hypothesis.

The original sin is what separated us from God. Adam and Eve were created to be perfect creatures. They would live forever in paradise. God only asked them to do one simple thing.
Aha! A test He already knew the outcome of.
If not then He’s not omniscient.

So, he creates these creatures with the flaws that will make them fail at a ridiculous test (Don’t eat fruit?!! Paaalease) he’s rigged and knows the future of.
Why not just cast them to hell and avoid the charade?

He gave them a commaned to not "eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Obviously the Bible isn't referring to an actual tree but it is symbolic for something else, what I don't know.
So, knowledge is what is forbidden by a God that wants to keep his creations dumb and ignorant.
All this, again, the Book states as fact and it is so because the Book says it is so.

And!!! You don’t know what the tee symbolizes but you do know or you feel it, that this is so.

How old are you?

The point is that they were given this one command and they disobeyed it.
No free-will then.
If a slave master tells his slave:

“You are free, slave. If you run off I’ll catch you, torture you and leave you to suffer. If you don’t run off and you declare your undying loyalty to me you are free to enjoy my authority.”

Here's the fable meant for children and the child-like:
Satan entered the garden and tempted them by saying that the "fruit of the tree" would make them like God. They ate from the tree and lost everything, paradise, immortality, everything. This was not flaw in God's design. This was free will. Adam and Eve had a choice and they made the wrong one.
All this taken literally.

Now, we can honestly say that Adam and Eve's actions were not our fault so why should we be punished because of it. It is because of the fact that after the fall, humanity is now born with an inherently sinful nature. I've heard it put that "You do not have to teach children to be bad, you have to teach them to be good". No one on earth is capable of living a perfect life yet that was the only way to enter heaven.
Gaaaad your stupidity is mind-boggling.

All this the Book says and what the Book says, is.
Man is “Bad”?

Define ‘evil’ and then define ‘good’.

I haven’t had so much fun since Eden of the Mind.

God is perfect therefore His standard is perfection and God knew that no one could live up to it. That's why He sent Jesus.
God creates a standard nobody could ever hope to live up to and then makes man suffer for it.
Then, in a moment of clarity and regret He sends His only son to pay for the imperfections He’s instilled in His creations.

Am I to understand that there’s a bunch of you that take this drivel as fact and that live by it?
Come on…you’re American …right?

As I said before the penalty for sin is death. It has been since Eden. God is just and will punish sin. Jesus died on the cross fulfilling the law and taking the death penalty of mankind upon Himself. He was then raised from the dead to prove he had victory over death. Death is not the end.
This is becoming too pathetic to be true.

You will still exist after death. Your soul will exist forever. Where it exists, heaven or hell, is your choice. God gave you free will. He could have made you nothing more than a puppet on strings but because He loves you He gave you the ability to choose for yourself. God will not force you. The choice is yours and yours alone.
Well at least I’ve got a choice, Einstein.

No, that isn't how it works. God will punish sin. "Once saved, always saved" doesn't apply. Jesus said "Remember Lot's wife". In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Lot and his family were safe. God simply told them "Don't look back". Lot's wife disobeyed God and it cost her her life.

When someone chooses to follow God that doesn't mean that from then on they're perfect and can do what ever they want. People who follow God are still human with the same weaknesses as everyone else. They sin just like everyone else. That's where forgiveness comes in. If you repent honestly of your sin you can be forgiven but you cannot think that you are free to sin because God will forgive you. If you repent with the intention of going back to your same old ways your playing a very dangerous game. God is no fool. He knows you better than you know yourself.
The above specimen can be used as a case study of what happens to a mind when it is stunted from an early age or when the genetic material that went into its creation was below standard.

The ‘suicide bombers’ of Islam have no greater intellectual capacity.

This is what happens when mediocrity is allowed to flourish and weakness is shielded and protected and excused.
 
The E,

Yes, God could have made us perfect creatures unable to do wrong but then free will goes out the window.
No, no. Free will would still be essential and fully active and quite necessary. Perfect here means having all the information necessary to make informed choices and appropriate intelligence to be able to process such information correctly. If what God was offering was the best choice then we would have been able to see that by informed free will choice and there would be no reason take any alternatives.

In the Christian farce the humans appear stupid and do not have sufficient information to make correct choices. In reality most people make poor choices because of bad or missing information, or faulty intelligence.

An omnipotent god could have provided everything we needed and with appropriate abilities to deal it. That he didn’t do that is either because he doesn’t exist (most probable), or that he intended for his creations to suffer and be tortured for eternity which pretty much makes him something of an evil monster, doesn’t it? A farce whichever way you look at it.

Adam and Eve were created to be perfect creatures.
Clearly that can’t be true otherwise they would not have made any mistakes.

He gave them a commaned to not "eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Obviously the Bible isn't referring to an actual tree but it is symbolic for something else, what I don't know. The point is that they were given this one command and they disobeyed it.
It is the tree that gave the knowledge of good and evil. The problem here is how did they know that to disobey god was wrong UNTIL they had eaten from the tree that allowed them to know their actions were wrong. It’s a Christian catch-22 – they were duped and can’t be held responsible for their actions.

Satan entered the garden and tempted them by saying that the "fruit of the tree" would make them like God.
Satan here is just another god. Without knowing the difference between good and bad why would they not believe another god? Either way they were duped and cannot be held responsible for their actions. And since their claimed fall from grace is the basis of Christianity, and as we see the original story is a farce then that leaves Christianity in a total mess as well, right?

Death is not the end. You will still exist after death. Your soul will exist forever.
Ahh souls, yet an even more idiotic farce. There is no such thing. Wake up.
 
Satyr said:
And you accept this as 'truth' on what grounds?
What is YOUR train of thought which leads you to accept this hypothesis as convincing enough to believe in?

The original train of thought that first got me thinking there was a God was the complexity of the universe. The universe is so amazingly complex and fine tuned that the odds of it happening by chance are more astronomical (no pun intended) than the odds of it being created.

Satyr said:
If all it takes is a book then I can point you to many books telling you what God thinks and what to do to gain exclusive access to heaven.
I'm sure you could but a lot of these books say that you can live any old way you please and that God's got bigger fish to fry than you. There is no personal connection with God in these other books.

Satyr said:
“There is a God”
On what evidence?
A book telling you isn't proof it’s an excuse a justification.

The world around us points to something greater than ourselves. It's "vain and presumptuous" of us to believe that we're all there is.

Satyr said:
“He knows you better than you know yourself.”
How presumptuous of Him and of you to think so.

God created you and you think He wouldn't know you better than you know yourself.

Satyr said:
I know you better than you know yourself, because you sound like an imbecile,….does that make me your God?

You know me better than I now myself? Fine, what's my real name? A statement like that makes you the imbecile, not me

Satyr said:
“He loves you anyway”
How touching.
Yet hell awaits me if I do not submit to His authority, like you have.
What an exclusive club you've got there.

Like a parent which punishes his son for not obeying him or for attempting to surpass him.
Not even a human parent would be so callous and vain as your 'loving' god.

If God knows me better than I know myself and if He is omniscient then He already knows what I will do and why.
Why the games, then?

If you say that He has given me free-will then I would say that this then constitutes Him not omniscient, since He knows not what I will choose, and if He’s created my nature than He’s seeded me with my own destruction.

People have been saying that for centuries. God knows what will happen if you choose Him and He knows what will happen if you don't. He also does know what choice you will make, right or wrong, but he'll still try to get your attention. You are not seeded with your own destruction. The choice is still yours. Even if God knew you were going to make the wrong decision He would still try to get your attention if for no other reason than so on judgement day you could not say "I never had a chance"

Satyr said:
Furthermore the free-will is a fraud since He then asks for it to be submissive to His.
How is a will free when it’s only freedom is to enslave itself to another’s or else face damnation?

Which god is so vain so as to demand worship and acknowledgement using threats and promises?

It isn't a life of slavery. A follower of God doesn't live His or Her life in constant fear of a taskmaster in the sky. God is offering you freedom. Freedom from hell and freedom from death.

Satyr said:
If He is absolute good and love then how does He allow hate and evil; a tainted creation.
If He allows it He either is not omnipotent or not absolutely good or toying with us.
Why do you feel that evil and hate are from God? Remember that the devil is playing his part in this too. Creation was tainted by man not by God. He could have wiped the slate clean and started over but then what would have been proven. That God was powerful? No one ever disputed God was powerful. What was disputed was God righteuosness. Is God good? God's goodness is proven in the fact that He has allowed things to progress this far. He could destroy all life on this planet with nothing more than a thought but because He's merciful He hasn't done it. See, we are in the middle of a war right now. It's a war between good and evil and God has let things go this long to give people as much time as is needed to make the choice as to which side their on.

Satyr said:
But God supposedly speaks to you through the Book, dictated to humans and written ambiguously so as to be interpreted in multiple ways.

So, you are dedicating your life to a book which hypothetically was dictated to men by God.

No, The Bible isn't some sort of heavenly cell phone that gives you a direct line to God. If you want to speak to God, pray.


Satyr said:
Do you "realize" this or are you told that this is so.
You realize it. You don't need anyone to tell you


Satyr said:
God judges you in accordance to how you’ve adhered to His demands and then punishes you or rewards you?
This is your understanding of “justice”?

It’s like saying:
I make the rules in my house.
I then punish my son for not following them with eternal suffering.
And I remain a good and compassionate parent?

The reason for Christ's death was to bridge the gulf between humanity and God. That gulf was not put there by God. It was put there by man.

Satyr said:
Furthermore prove the necessity of a “paradise”.
On what grounds do you assume your life deserves eternity or that you are special enough to merit special consideration?

My life deserves nothing. I'm in no way special and don't deserve special consideration. Heaven is the dwelling place of God.

Satyr said:
Describe paradise for us all.
I can't. No one can

Satyr said:
Are you really this dim-witted or ...wait you aren't American are you?

And here I thought you knew me better than I knew myself. Silly me
 
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