Why do so many people believe in God.

[wesmorris]

Of course, it is pointless to the logical mind, and only we theists with more faith than logic could possibly be offended by thinking our faith could be considered a nasty cult. I suppose if you want to stir the pot and see people get defensive it would be a great tool to throw out there that religion and cult are the same words.

Yeah. It works. I tried it when I first showed up here for a while. I got over it though for the most part. I might occasionally bust it out here and there though if I'm pissy about someone's posts. Meh. Ultimately though, it doesn't do much good besides relieving a little tension on my part, but probably creating it and getting it reflected back through whomever I "cultulate", and so it's semi-pointless. The words are virtually interchangable to me regardless of whatever insults someone else.

 

[wesmorris]

I suppose if you want to stir the pot and see people get defensive it would be a great tool to throw out there that religion and cult are the same words.

Religion is a belief in the supernatural while a cult is a system of religious beliefs, usually exclusive with followers showing 'exaggerated zeal.'

In that regard, it would appear that a cult is a subset of religion, as would be rituals and practices are subsets.

Does that help?

Does that excuse the cultists in religion? Actually I don't think your differentiation works because "followers showing exagerrated zeal" aren't exclusive to the group to which they belong. You'll find the same in either a religion or a cult as you defined them. The problem is defining the organization based on the behavior of the members, while both organizations have members who behave similarly.

 

[jayleew]

Does that excuse the cultists in religion? Actually I don't think your differentiation works because "followers showing exagerrated zeal" aren't exclusive to the group to which they belong. You'll find the same in either a religion or a cult as you defined them. The problem is defining the organization based on the behavior of the members, while both organizations have members who behave similarly.

That does complicate the terms. In my mind, I think cultists are doing things (maybe even moral things) for the wrong reasons. By my definition, I would call many Christian churchs cults. But maybe I am being prideful in thinking that I am not part of a cult. To me, it doesn't matter as long as I don't look to mankind for the answers I seek, or motivation. There is great value in human intelligence and invention and I don't belittle it. However, I would argue that most things can be explained scientifically as well as spiritually. It saddens me that science can describe things like rain in a cold, plain way. Thereby losing all beauty and wonder of the event. It reminds me of Data on Star Trek seeing only what he sees as reality, and humans who can see beyond what is really there. But, we can see that way without believing in God, but when we talk about our origins and our futures and our lives, I prefer to see beyond what is really there. And I find when I do look at my past, I see a path that I made and each event that I got through in a certain way that lead me to believe in God. So what other conclusion can I come to? I look back and see that I was really on a ride. I chose which way to turn (some 180 degree turns), but the general direction was toward a belief and trust in God through my experience. What other conclusion can I come to?

 

[wesmorris]

jayleew,

you might find my thread "the taoist trap" interesting reading. it addresses your question I think, but perhaps not in the way you might expect. I dunno. either way I find it interesting, and thought I'd share.

 

[Godless]

There are times when we can confuse the two as well.

A religion is a cult. It's humble begginings were cult, specially the christian religion and also islam could be very much considered a cult. Any group who brains washes the ingnorance of the many and then mandate an ideal way to live, be, worship, etc. Is a cult.

Godless

 

[jayleew]

A religion is a cult. It's humble begginings were cult, specially the christian religion and also islam could be very much considered a cult. Any group who brains washes the ingnorance of the many and then mandate an ideal way to live, be, worship, etc. Is a cult.

Godless

I might have to agree with you here. That is why I do not want to be religious, and I am sickened (literally) by the religious. Is that a bad thing?

Still, I follow and worship God and invite anyone who is willing to hear to discover God for themselves, for the sake of God, their own existence, and for the benefit of society...and what it feels like to be free of this mundane life, which is only a lie, as our mind is deceived by its perception of reality.

 

[audible]

jayleew: the matrix was just a film, we dont live it.

 

[jayleew]

jayleew: the matrix was just a film, we dont live it.

Oh, we don't?

If a ball is dropped from a moving train and a person on the train observes the motion and a person exists outside of the train is observing the motion. Whose reality is the truth? Do we not base everything we observe by the constant motion of the Earth? Would reality be altered if the Earth did not spin?

Life is very much perception. Yours and my perception is irrelevant to the reality, but we both have faith of certain realities based on perceived evidence and we reject certain realities based on perceived evidence. How do we find the real truth?

 

[audible]

Oh, we don't?

If a ball is dropped from a moving train and a person on the train observes the motion and a person exists outside of the train is observing the motion. Whose reality is the truth?

same reality just different angles

Do we not base everything we observe by the constant motion of the Earth?

no.

Would reality be altered if the Earth did not spin?

no

Yours and my perception is irrelevant to the reality,

wrong, my objective reality is just that reality, however my dream/imagination/subjective reality is only a reality in my minds eye, and not in anybody elses, all our subjective realitys, are personal to each of us.
however objective reality is the same for all, animals and humans alike.

but we both have faith of certain realities based on perceived evidence

no, wrong, there is only one reality (objective).

and we reject certain realities based on perceived evidence.

no, wrong, as objective reality is the only reality.

How do we find the real truth?

we stop thinking we're something more than just another animal trying to survive on this planet.
two gorilla in a field both looking ahead, theres a tree infront of them, one see the tree, and the other see a pink fluffy kanagroo wearing a wooly hat and sunglasses, well no not in reality, the other sees a tree also.

 

[(Q)]

Actually I don't think your differentiation works because "followers showing exagerrated zeal" aren't exclusive to the group to which they belong.

'Cult' is actually defined as the system of rituals and practices as opposed to the belief itself. The cult of religion could be described as the rituals and practices of that religion.

 

[SnakeLord]

Well, the typical understanding of 'cult' vs 'religion' would be a numbers game. A cult would be a group of people all sharing the same belief/ideals and focus of worship. A religion would not differ other than the amount of people it has 'recruited'. The general understanding would be that a cult is a religion, but with less followers.

 

[(Q)]

Cult definition:

- adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
- fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal
- a system of religious beliefs and rituals

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

[wesmorris]

Q,

'Cult' is actually defined as the system of rituals and practices as opposed to the belief itself. The cult of religion could be described as the rituals and practices of that religion.

Cult definition:

- adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
- fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal
- a system of religious beliefs and rituals

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- Don't those explanations conflict? You say it's "the system" but quote a definition that says it's "the adherents" of the system you said.

DOH. I guess I didn't read far enough, so the conflict is in the definition itself. Hrmph. So it can be used either way. Thus, I have to ask, how is a religion different from a "system of beliefs and rituals"?

"The cult of religion could be described as the rituals and practices of that religion."

But isnt' that what defines the religion (along with the beliefs which are mentioned in your definition)? And if so, isn't it just another word for the same thing?

 

[(Q)]

I think religion is the belief itself, the perception of god, while the cult (rituals, practices, adherents) are what defines that perception physically.

For example, Homer has a perception or image of god; long flowing hair and beard, good teeth, class act. That is his belief.

Homer goes to church and sleeps, prays to god to find his remote control and talks to squirrels in the shower. That is his cult.

Am I way off base here?

 

[wesmorris]

Actually you can have it any way you like it. If you find there be a need to differentiate between the rituals and the beliefs, the term cult as you use it makes sense. From my perspective it's all the same thing so there's no point in the differentiation.

I'd say from the definition you posted, we're both correct.. which in turn makes me question the point of the differentiation. If it were in fact limited to just the "rituals" or whatever, it'd make more sense to me than using it either way, but as your definition notes, they can be used basically interchangeably - at least in my view.

Perhaps in its first incarnation of the definition, I haven't given the term "exclusive" enough weight. Perhaps that's the difference, but that wouldn't make a lot of sense either, because any cult is generally attempting to garner more members because they promote 'the truth' and you, as a non-member should recognize it and become a follower.

 

[Qorl]

People believe in creator because unseen force is leading them.

 

[Godless]

People believe in creator because unseen force is leading them.

The only unseen force is their delusional imagination!

G.

 

[stretched]

Hi jayleew,

Thanks, that was nicely and clearly put. I appreciate your response.

 

[enton]

The only unseen force is their delusional imagination!

G.

Have you seen your mind?

 

[Godless]

Have you seen your mind?

Have you seen your god?.

If you say you have, your a liar, and also delusional.

So what's the point? No one can see their physical brain. Unless they are delusional, have you seen yours?. LOL..

I haven't physically seen my mind, but I know my mind very well. Thank you.

teneo thy ego.

Ξέρτε μόνο δικος σου και εσείς κυβερνά το πεπρωμένο σας.

You can translate can't you?.

Godless