Why do so many people believe in God.

dalahar said:
No, I do not serve Paul. I serve Christ only.

I believe the gospels. Matthew presents Him as the King of the Jews. Mark presents Him as the Servant of God. Luke as the perfect Man, and John as the Son of God. Matthew was written to the Jew, Mark to the Gentiles, Luke to the whole world, and John to the church. Matthew is prophetic in nature, Mark is practical, Luke is historical, and John is spiritual.

I don't know where you got the idea that no one wrote about His life, but if I wanted to destroy an idea, the first thing I would do is attack it's credibility.
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M*W: dalahar, I can tell that you are a very nice and genuine person. You are certainly a good example for christians to follow. I can't say that about any other christian on this forum. You're even the kind of christian that I can like. It's sad that they all can't be like you.

But, in reality, you do serve Paul and/or the Roman Empire. Paul or the Caesars created the idea of Jesus as a dying demigod savior to control the masses. There is no way any christian can say that they don't follow Paul. The truth be known, there is no such religion as christianity.
 
No, I do not serve Paul. I serve Christ only.

Stating the obvious? Thanks.

I believe the gospels.

The debate as to when the gospels were written and by whom rages on. At best, it is at least 30 years after the alleged ascension, but that is based on whether or not Q existed, the alleged source documents used by both Matthew and Luke.

I don't know where you got the idea that no one wrote about His life, but if I wanted to destroy an idea, the first thing I would do is attack it's credibility.

No one wrote about his life during or shortly after the events, which is what I was refering - my bad if I did not make that clear.
 
Tell me about this...who is this "Q" you refer to. The source documents?

You're kidding, right? You believe in what you have no idea of its source? Tsk, tsk. I thought I was talking to an educated theist. I appear to know more about religion then you.
 
Medicine Woman said:
M*W: Yorda, I must say that at times you freak me out with your naivete, but then at other times, you show wisdom.
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You use the word wisdom... when i agree with you, it is wisdom, when i don't agree, i'm naive, sick, stupid, delusional?... i speak no wisdom or fantasy... i just offer a different perspective... just like you do... and none of our perspectives are more right than someone elses....

it's not even my perspective or my thoughts. why do you think i believe the things i'm saying.

Let me see if I can explain what I meant by "real." Myths are "real" in that they are "myths." One could not state literally that "myths aren't real, " because myths do "exist." Whether or not they have any truth or substance is another matter entirely. As far a myths go, I could honestly state that Heracles exists today, and Jesus exists today -- in mythic form, but it is highly doubtful that these characters ever lived and breathed. Does this shed more light on my definition of "real?"
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Ok... that's pretty much the same shit i also believe.... except that I think all myths are just pure bullshit, including all religions, they're fantasies. there's no truth in them, never was!
 
dalahar said:
If that be true, then they took advantage of thousands of years of writings and made happen what was foretold in the books. What about the Jews. They have no dispute over the life of Jesus. As a matter of fact, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD and the Jews surely would have been ranting and raving over the fact that Jesus did not live. As it is, they just deny that He is the Son of God. The muslims do not deny that Jesus lived and was a great prophet. They just do not believe that He was the Son of God.
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M*W: The Jews vehemently dispute the life of Jesus as told in the NT. Here is a sampling of:

http://members.aol.com/just/crzyju/jesuspanthera.htm

"Jewish View of Jesus

jesus practiced sorcery, and led people astray from the truth

jesus was an idolater, and heretic, who mocked the Rabbis

jesus was stoned and hung on the eve of Passover for his crimes

The Talmud implies that he was the son of an adulteress, Mary (Miriam), and a Roman solder named Joseph Pandera/Panthere
[/I]
if jesus existed at all, he lived in the time of the Maccabean king Alexander Jannai, and his wife Salome, nearly 130 years PRIOR to the date alluded to in the gospels (Sanhedrin 107b)"

This is a thorough website that addresses all of these questions. Here is another excerpt:

http://members.aol.com/just/crzyju/historicaljesus.htm

"What I find most amazing is not what is written after Jesus' death, but what people during his life did not say about him. No historian, no follower, no scribe who lived during the time of Jesus - EVER mentions him. Why is that? The gospels state Jesus was known all over, he was a prophet, a healer, and had many followers - NO ONE took the time to write anything down? Why? Because there WAS NO HISTORICAL JESUS. He is simply a Fictional Character in a book."

And, an excerpt from:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/jesus.htm

"The story of Jesus as presented in the four gospels of the New Testament is essentially a piece of fiction. There are no authentic references to such a figure in the works of any historians of the early 1st century CE (common era)."

These are excellent sites regarding the Jesus fiction.
 
Yorda_7 said:
You use the word wisdom... when i agree with you, it is wisdom, when i don't agree, i'm naive, sick, stupid, delusional?... i speak no wisdom or fantasy... i just offer a different perspective... just like you do... and none of our perspectives are more right than someone elses....

it's not even my perspective or my thoughts. why do you think i believe the things i'm saying.

Ok... that's pretty much the same shit i also believe.... except that I think all myths are just pure bullshit, including all religions, they're fantasies. there's no truth in them, never was!
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M*W: No, I don't just use the word "wisdom" when you agree with me. A few posts ago, you elaborated on the cosmology of the bible. I commented that what you wrote was interesting or something, because I DIDN'T HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE! I appreciated learning something I didn't know!
 
I read the words and I believe.

Words that may have been made up many years after the alleged events took place? Wow, amazing memories those folks had.

So, you still have not answered my question.

Sorry, which one?
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: No, I don't just use the word "wisdom" when you agree with me. A few posts ago, you elaborated on the cosmology of the bible. I commented that what you wrote was interesting or something, because I DIDN'T HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE! I appreciated learning something I didn't know!
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k. anyway, the point is that I don't believe or disbelieve what I say and I can never say anything worth anything because i'm not worth anything and it doesn't matter because nothing is worth nothing and everything from atheism to theism is bullshit, there is no god and there is no not-god, you're all sick and so on ad infinitum...
 
dalahar said:
Excerpt:

Quite simply, one must ignore a great deal of evidence, and treat what evidence is left most unfairly, in order to deny that Jesus existed. Greco-Roman historian Michael Grant, who certainly has no theological axe to grind, indicates that there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for a large number of famous pagan personages - yet no one would dare to argue their non-existence. Meier [Meie.MarJ, 23] notes that what we know about Alexander the Great could fit on only a few sheets of paper; yet no one doubts that Alexander existed.

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/jesusexisthub.html
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M*W: I was a Catholic convert at age 22. I played the game most efficiently. I believed that Jesus existed, and lived and died for me. Then one day when I was in St. Peter's, it was as if it all became clear to me. I believed blindly, and what I was seeing in front of me wasn't christianity (as I knew it). It was pagan, and this confused me a lot. I had gone to Rome on a religious pilgrimage, but I came home a non-believer. Still, the pilgrimage turned out positively. It showed me the truth. And, I will say now that I was one hard-headed christian. When you look at christianity through the eyes of the believer, you see the living Jesus. When you look at christianity through the eyes of the searcher, you see evil. I still get chills up my spine when I think about that evil experience.

I haven't read it yet, but I plan to purchase the new release called Caesar's Messiah by J. Atwill. Here's a short review:

"Caesar's Messiah, a real life Da Vinci Code, presents the dramatic and controversial discovery that the conventional views of Christian origins may be wrong. Author Joseph Atwill makes the case that the Christian Gospels were actually written under the direction of first-century Roman emperors. The purpose of these texts was to establish a peaceful Jewish sect to counterbalance the militaristic Jewish forces that had just been defeated by the Roman Emperor Titus in 70 A.D."
 
Quite simply, one must ignore a great deal of evidence, and treat what evidence is left most unfairly, in order to deny that Jesus existed.
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Which is?

Greco-Roman historian Michael Grant, who certainly has no theological axe to grind, indicates that there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus
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Does he happen to provide any of that evidence?
 
Snakelord...I really couldn't say for the same reasons mentioned to M*W. All that I can tell you is that I don't see how anyone could make up such a fantastic story and make it fit.
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As a keen story-writer myself, I can boldly state that the very purpose of it is to make it 'fit'. You honestly think LotR or Harry Potter would have the millions upon millions of fans and followers if it didn't?

But what are we really talking here? Some lonely housewife writes a book and sells 6 million copies in the first few months vs god comes down to earth, one book is written and it takes a few hundred years before anybody even pays attention.

What fits and what doesn't? It's a question..

Jesus was attractive to the masses, not necessarily the elite.
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As is Harry Potter.

There, in my opinion, is not a lot of hard evidence but I think it was meant to be that way.
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I'll give you a candy bar if you can provide any evidence.

I don't require that evidence
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That is where everything falls apart. You're already aware of that, which is at least honest of you - but it also leaves no room to move.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: The Jews vehemently dispute the life of Jesus as told in the NT. Here is a sampling of:

http://members.aol.com/just/crzyju/jesuspanthera.htm

"Jewish View of Jesus

jesus practiced sorcery, and led people astray from the truth

jesus was an idolater, and heretic, who mocked the Rabbis

jesus was stoned and hung on the eve of Passover for his crimes

The Talmud implies that he was the son of an adulteress, Mary (Miriam), and a Roman solder named Joseph Pandera/Panthere
[/I]
if jesus existed at all, he lived in the time of the Maccabean king Alexander Jannai, and his wife Salome, nearly 130 years PRIOR to the date alluded to in the gospels (Sanhedrin 107b)"

This is a thorough website that addresses all of these questions. Here is another excerpt:

http://members.aol.com/just/crzyju/historicaljesus.htm

"What I find most amazing is not what is written after Jesus' death, but what people during his life did not say about him. No historian, no follower, no scribe who lived during the time of Jesus - EVER mentions him. Why is that? The gospels state Jesus was known all over, he was a prophet, a healer, and had many followers - NO ONE took the time to write anything down? Why? Because there WAS NO HISTORICAL JESUS. He is simply a Fictional Character in a book."

And, an excerpt from:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/jesus.htm

"The story of Jesus as presented in the four gospels of the New Testament is essentially a piece of fiction. There are no authentic references to such a figure in the works of any historians of the early 1st century CE (common era)."

These are excellent sites regarding the Jesus fiction.
Click to expand...


Of course there are Jews who do not believe in Christ or his teachings! Those are the Jews spoken of in Revelation who will be deceived by the Anti-Christ, but once they find that they have been betrayed when the Anti-Christ blasphemes in the temple, they will run and hide in the mountains and will be saved in the end. Or, so the legend goes...
 
Well I see that Q already enlightened you Dalahar, here's a nother source, so you may become aware of Q.

The Question of Q

It's sad really when an atheist knows more about a religion than the pundit who follows the religion by blind faith, and no knowledge of what the hell he's believing.

Godless
 
Godless said:
Well I see that Q already enlightened you Dalahar, here's a nother source, so you may become aware of Q.

The Question of Q

It's sad really when an atheist knows more about a religion than the pundit who follows the religion by blind faith, and no knowledge of what the hell he's believing.

Godless
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So sad indeed. That is the problem with today's Christians. They don't stop and assess what is told to them. Accepting Jesus blindly is good I suppose if you don't plan on living in a world devoid of rational thought. It is that simple to salvation, but not that simple to being a Christian.

Being a Christian is about learning more and doing the best with what was given to spread the Good News. Blind faith will get you saved, but it may also get you unsaved.

God prefers the prodigal son because he has grown up and understands what he is getting into and jumps in anyway, than a son who walked the walk just because he was following others into heaven and not God, or is proud of himself.
 
dalahar said:
Snakelord...I really couldn't say for the same reasons mentioned to M*W. All that I can tell you is that I don't see how anyone could make up such a fantastic story and make it fit. Jesus was attractive to the masses, not necessarily the elite. He was not "high profile" until later when He was in His last days. There, in my opinion, is not a lot of hard evidence but I think it was meant to be that way.
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I agree, it was intentional.

dalahar said:
Again, I don't know. I don't require that evidence and I have not looked to evidence from anyone else. I am following blind as M*W said. I follow by faith. I have no doubt that Jesus lived and died on the cross. That is just me and I will, as usual, get ripped up by all the people who dig in books for this and that. I don't think digging in books for proof (or disproof) is a bad thing, of course. I just never required it for myself.
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Me either, coming on sciforums has gotten me back into it. For my benefit, and also my folly because my faith is challenged more than ever today because of sciforums. But, I know this is what all Christians need to do. Become stronger, and find out why we believe what we believe. Hold on to your experience of God (that is the only evidence of him), or seek him if you have none. Fellowship with other Christians (including Sunday service) many times is not a God experience. Then learn.

Arm yourself. Read some apologetics like "Case for a Creator," but use your critical thinking skills. I have some doubts to what the Discovery Institute is doing, even though it is encouraging. But, what do we know of God?

Anyway, also pick up "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. His book will inspire you to learn about the customs, traditions, and history of the time period in which the Bible was written. Rob illustrates with inspiring insight, the importance of knowing history to unlocking what the authors meant in the Bible. Remember faith is not a brick, but a spring in which we allow God's majesty to work.
 
dalahar said:
Hi, wesmorris. If it were my own imagination, I would have no faith in it. I have imagined many things that I have no faith in. Christ is not one of them. I truly believe in Christ down to the marrow in my bones.
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That wasn't the question. I asked, how do you KNOW that it isn't your imagination. You just got all circular on me. :) And you are a figment of your imagination as well, do you not have faith that you exist?
 
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