Why do people believe?

[lightgigantic]

LG, any perception of whatever through whatever is an interpretation. Period.

Can you keep your supersoul and related matters to yourself.. please ?

as I mentioned at the onset, it is a spiritual discipline.

If you were after some sort of explanation that can explain how issues beyond the mind can be ascertained with the mind, I wouldn't have bothered to even begin.

 

[Enmos]

Emnos
what is an animal interested in that doesn't involve sleeping, eating, mating or defending?
How about justice?

Play. Feeling good. Socializing for some animals.
Of course this is all needed for survival.
Because humans have freed themselves from nature to a extent, they can engage in behavior that would spell certain death for other animals.

I don't know about justice. It is a weird concept. It's basically just getting what you want, isn't it ?

certainly

..ok

hence it tends to indicate that the use of this spare time has a better utility than simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending (which is how humans tend to waste the human form and transform the world at large into the proverbial)

Better utility ?

ok
suppose a human takes birth as a slug
once in that from of life they proceed (through the process of taking birth and dying) to other forms that are more elevating (like say a reptile). Then they could cycle through all the varieties of beast species until they eventually end up as one of the species of human.

Reincarnation ?
Can we leave these kind of unfounded assumptions out of the discussion ?

 

[Enmos]

as I mentioned at the onset, it is a spiritual discipline.

If you were after some sort of explanation that can explain how issues beyond the mind can be ascertained with the mind, I wouldn't have bothered to even begin.

LG, you don't seem to get it. Spiritual or not, eventually you experience it. To experience it you must interpret it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Because animals are not stupid. Sorry to put it like that but you asked.

Now, why do you think animals might (be able to) believe in God ?

I still don't see why you have this position. Have any animals come forward to claim a position on God?

 

[Enmos]

I still don't see why you have this position. Have any animals come forward to claim a position on God?

I've never seen a animals pray or do anything else that might suggest a believe in God. On top of that, believing in God seems to be a serious hazard for wild animals. They are on their own, trusting their lives to some skydaddy probably will get them killed.

Anyway, the position that animals don't believe in God doesn't seem extraordinary. The opposite however is. So you explain this extraordinary position please..

 

[S.A.M.]

I've never seen a animals pray or do anything else that might suggest a believe in God. On top of that, believing in God seems to be a serious hazard for wild animals. They are on their own, trusting their lives to some skydaddy probably will get them killed.

What is their opinion on the universe, color, rape, infanticide, laws, borders, secularism and other such great mysteries? I had no idea animals had resolved existentialism I would have applied to them sooner.

 

[lightgigantic]

Emnos

what is an animal interested in that doesn't involve sleeping, eating, mating or defending?
How about justice?
”
Play. Feeling good. Socializing for some animals.
Of course this is all needed for survival.

yes

Because humans have freed themselves from nature to a extent, they can engage in behavior that would spell certain death for other animals.

what?
like smoking and drinking?

I don't know about justice. It is a weird concept. It's basically just getting what you want, isn't it ?

if it was, we wouldn't see the hypocrisy of "might is right"

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
hence it tends to indicate that the use of this spare time has a better utility than simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending (which is how humans tend to waste the human form and transform the world at large into the proverbial)
”
Better utility ?

we have spare time because we have good arrangements for sleeping, eating, mating and defending - of what use is re-investing that time in these 4 activities?

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
ok
suppose a human takes birth as a slug
once in that from of life they proceed (through the process of taking birth and dying) to other forms that are more elevating (like say a reptile). Then they could cycle through all the varieties of beast species until they eventually end up as one of the species of human.
”
Reincarnation ?
Can we leave these kind of unfounded assumptions out of the discussion ?

if you don't view the mind and body as fundamental components of selfhood, its not a difficult concept to work with

 

[Enmos]

What is their opinion on the universe, color, rape, infanticide, laws, borders, secularism and other such great mysteries? I had no idea animals had solved existentialism I would have applied to them sooner.

They have no position on those, or God :shrug:

You are the one claiming the might have such positions.

 

[S.A.M.]

They have no position on those, or God :shrug:

You are the one claiming the might have such positions.

Does this mean we also should not have any positions on those, since we are animals?

 

[lightgigantic]

LG, you don't seem to get it. Spiritual or not, eventually you experience it. To experience it you must interpret it.

All depends what you understand to be fundamental about the self. Given your earlier statement, I didn't think you had problems with it


Originally Posted by lightgigantic
mental capacity is not fundamental
”
I agree. Animals have mental capacity, like humans do.

 

[Enmos]

Emnos
yes

what?
like smoking and drinking?

Oh come on..
Have you ever seen an animal stop and pray to its Skydaddy in the face of apparent danger ? They either run or fight for their lives. No help from God.

if it was, we wouldn't see the hypocrisy of "might is right"

We see that in humans and other animals alike.
By the way, what is justice to me might not be justice to you.

we have spare time because we have good arrangements for sleeping, eating, mating and defending - of what use is re-investing that time in these 4 activities?

You can do whatever you want with that spare time. You, however, say that anything done in that time is of higher utility than the other 4. Which is completely untrue.
You may value it more, but you'd be lying to yourself.

if you don't view the mind and body as fundamental components of selfhood, its not a difficult concept to work with

Forget it, I don't want to discuss it.

In fact, I'm done with this thread for now.

 

[Enmos]

Does this mean we also should not have any positions on those, since we are animals?

lol
All you do is troll.. why ?

 

[Enmos]

All depends what you understand to be fundamental about the self. Given your earlier statement, I didn't think you had problems with it


Originally Posted by lightgigantic
mental capacity is not fundamental
”
I agree. Animals have mental capacity, like humans do.

You don't make sense to me.

Enmos out.

 

[S.A.M.]

lol
All you do is troll.. why ?

I'm following your logic, this is your argument.

 

[Enmos]

I'm following your logic, this is your argument.

I have given the answer on several occasions in this thread. Find it yourself.
You only reply to post or parts of post that you can use to twist the original intention of the post, while you ignore the parts you can't answer or use in that way.

 

[lightgigantic]

Oh come on..
Have you ever seen an animal stop and pray to its Skydaddy in the face of apparent danger ? They either run or fight for their lives. No help from God.

hence sleeping, eating, mating and defending
(BTW issues of god has wider applications than merely saving one's backside)

We see that in humans and other animals alike.
By the way, what is justice to me might not be justice to you.

hence we could discuss the subject and appeal to higher reasoning
... or alternatively we could club each other over the head like baboons and just let the strongest win

You can do whatever you want with that spare time. You, however, say that anything done in that time is of higher utility than the other 4. Which is completely untrue.
You may value it more, but you'd be lying to yourself.

maybe I didn't explain myself properly.
You made the comment that our expertise in the 4 animal propensities gives us spare time and that such spare time often results in "bullshit"
I suggested that was because we don't actually use the time in a meaningful manner.

Forget it, I don't want to discuss it.

In fact, I'm done with this thread for now.

ok
adios amigo

 

[S.A.M.]

Enmos:

Uh no, I was surprised at your inclusion of animals in a thread about belief.

I'm just wondering what the basis of your assumption is.

 

[lightgigantic]

Sorry, by that I was implying there was no case for satisfaction to be a factor. Animals have much greater suffering than humans and so they couldn't be satisfied with those conditions. We have cars, TVs, we're overweight etc., and we're still not happy with that, so animals are even less so.

since sparrows don't have a night shift or take pills at night to sleep better they are not satisfied?

 

[greenberg]

^ Moreover, how would one measure satisfaction?

One eats, and for several hours, one is satisfied in that one isn't hungry. But then the satisfaction of being full wanes, and one is dissatisfied again.
And similar is true for satisfying all other drives - eating, mating, sleeping and defending, including playing and socializing.
To make things worse, it usually happens that for the most part of the time, at least one of the drives is frustrated. One might be full, but tired. One might have slept well, but needs to defend oneself again. And so on. Rarely does one have any true, peaceful, safe, carefree rest.
- In this regard, humans and animals are much alike.

 

[YinyangDK]

“Why do people believe?,”

Because they don´t know better!