WHY are you attempting to make others as confused as you are???
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why did GOD stop sending messengers?!!
- Thread starter riverline
- Start date
WHY are you attempting to make others as confused as you are???
if truth 'confuses' then be honest with yourself and check everything to remove the confusion.
i find, that many who state as you have, are not really confused but are becoming aware and choose not to face reality!
nothing being said is against common sense
it may be against beliefs and accepted paradigm but that is what using your mind, the internet and questions allows you to address
if you allow honesty to step in, then be humble and simply allow yourself to begin the new homework to be absolutely certain.
but to roll over and say "i don't wanna" is not my fault, but your own choice.
Either you want to know, or you don't!
That ain't my choice!
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Your posts are very much confusing. Truth must be absolute, and furthermore falsehood must exist for truth to exist. Just as for there to be light, there needs to be darkness.
The question is why did God stop sending messengers. It depends on who you ask. For Muslims and Christians, God has sent his last messenger, therefore all that remains is the second coming of Jesus (peace be to him). For Jews, there Messiah has not arrived yet and they are awaiting his arrival, as they don't believe Jesus (peace be to him) was the Messiah.
The question is why did God stop sending messengers. It depends on who you ask. For Muslims and Christians, God has sent his last messenger, therefore all that remains is the second coming of Jesus (peace be to him). For Jews, there Messiah has not arrived yet and they are awaiting his arrival, as they don't believe Jesus (peace be to him) was the Messiah.
not the intentYour posts are very much confusing.
since mankind created 'all' words, then would you agree, there are a bunch of 'errors' to be made?Truth must be absolute, and furthermore falsehood must exist for truth to exist.
sure a we bit of good comes from some of it, just as birds came from dinosaurs.
but the beasts are extinct over time
Just as for there to be light, there needs to be darkness.
not in this existence. Since there is never anywhere possible in existence a perfect vacuum, then never NO where in existence is there a place without em (light).
Just because we (mankind) can only see a little sliver of the spectrum of light, then it may seem like darkness in some places but be certain, there is no perfect vacuum ever between a point A and B...........anywhere in existence!
Wrong! Both the quran and bible are practically all about the 'days' to come.The question is why did God stop sending messengers. It depends on who you ask. For Muslims and Christians, God has sent his last messenger,
It is the preaching and teaching, not the books themselves that push that idea, you are holding on to
therefore all that remains is the second coming of Jesus (peace be to him). For Jews, there Messiah has not arrived yet and they are awaiting his arrival, as they don't believe Jesus (peace be to him) was the Messiah.
jesus was not the messiah and even said 'another' is coming
first he said HE aint GOOD and to follow the rules mark 10
18And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;
19the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Thou mayest not defraud, Honour thy father and mother.
then in john 14 to keep the rules and 'another' will come, and this time will live with the PEOPLE
15`If ye love me, my commands keep,
16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age
this shares that Jesus himself knew he was not the messiah but the religious preachers would not just tell it like it is.
Most of the world has literature that the last chapter is yet to come.(and by a man)
see the kalki in hindu, the pahana of indigenous, the shaman, mahdi, great white brother........... the list is huge and can be found in most every religious belief system on earth............
Never before in existence has the knowledge evolved to such a point, as well in a venue (the internet) for any to observe, study and combine the various ideology.
The last is a person of choice, who simply put in the time to do what this earth and her population knew would occur ONE day; to reveal the truth!
Nothing magical about it!
and then again; since messengers are what people call the contributers, notice non of them had the ability to change anyones mind.
:bugeye:
.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
not the intent
since mankind created 'all' words, then would you agree, there are a bunch of 'errors' to be made?
What makes you assume mankind created words? God created all which exists, He taught man words and how to make his livelihood. God is as close to us as our jugular vein.
sure a we bit of good comes from some of it, just as birds came from dinosaurs.
but the beasts are extinct over time
Your parable is wasted on me. I don't believe in evolution. Nor do I believe dinosaurs turned into birds.
not in this existence. Since there is never anywhere possible in existence a perfect vacuum, then never NO where in existence is there a place without em (light).
Just because we (mankind) can only see a little sliver of the spectrum of light, then it may seem like darkness in some places but be certain, there is no perfect vacuum ever between a point A and B...........anywhere in existence!
Darkness and light are not absolute, their definition depends on the other. The vacuum or void is another issue altogether and unrelated.
Wrong! Both the quran and bible are practically all about the 'days' to come.
It is the preaching and teaching, not the books themselves that push that idea, you are holding on to
As for the Quran, I challenge you to provide evidence for your claims. I am well acquainted and your point about the Quran being vague about this is wrong. The Quran clearly mentions the Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him) as the last messenger of God. How many times is the kalima present in the Quran?
jesus was not the messiah and even said 'another' is coming
first he said HE aint GOOD and to follow the rules mark 10
18And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;
Actually this supports my view. I view Jesus as fully human prophet, and not divine.
19the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Thou mayest not defraud, Honour thy father and mother.
Prophet Jesus (peace be to him) did not have a father. This is general advice for his followers.
then in john 14 to keep the rules and 'another' will come, and this time will live with the PEOPLE
15`If ye love me, my commands keep,
16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age
this shares that Jesus himself knew he was not the messiah but the religious preachers would not just tell it like it is.
I agree. This is what Muslims believe. Hence the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) being the last messenger and the seal of the Prophets. There are no more to come.
Most of the world has literature that the last chapter is yet to come.(and by a man)
see the kalki in hindu, the pahana of indigenous, the shaman, mahdi, great white brother........... the list is huge and can be found in most every religious belief system on earth............
The Mahdi is not a prophet, he is a pious man who will rejuvenate faith in God and establish the law of God on Earth. Hadith are quite clear concerning him.
Never before in existence has the knowledge evolved to such a point, as well in a venue (the internet) for any to observe, study and combine the various ideology.
The last is a person of choice, who simply put in the time to do what this earth and her population knew would occur ONE day; to reveal the truth!
Nothing magical about it!
So you pick and choose from differing and contradictory religious scriptures to draw your personal beliefs? If God wills to reveal truth, he does not need to confuse us with inconsistency and contradictory systems. As truth is absolute, so is God's law absolute. Many religions have some truth, this shows the level of deviation from the true original religion, Monotheism. That monotheism is compeleted and perfect in Islam, which is a complete way of life for human beings.
and then again; since messengers are what people call the contributers, notice non of them had the ability to change anyones mind.
:bugeye:
.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had a very major impact on the pagan Arabs. If you study the revolution in the hearts of the people from before until after they accepted him, you will notice huge societal changes, even global changes in the world. You are right in one thing however, God gives man to decide what he wills to follow, as he has given us this choice. Those who embraced the prophets' messages over time, did so of their own free will, and became enlightened human beings who gained understanding of God and their own nature.
By the way, your typing style is very confusing and hard to read.
The Breaker
Registered Member
The question is a fallacy to begin with.
Agreed. God did not stop sending messengers, god never sent any in the first place. There is no god.
Itseemstome
Registered Senior Member
What leads you to believe that any of them are true prophets, and how do you determine which prophets are true?
Whatever gave you the impression that I thought any of them were true prophets? I merely wished to explain, as much to the fanatics as to anybody, how religions came into being and why none of them are telling the truth which they claim.
However the very fact that some information?, instruction?, form of knowledge, which appears to contain an element, however small, of truth, is being imparted is, in itself, fascinating. (how's that for punctuation?)
I, again, don't think, for a second, that it is from God; and no two people can agree on what that name means so it is of very little use in an unbiased discussion. At the very most its from a lesser intelligence than the all-encompassing G**.
We can't, however, get away from the fact that a very high percentage of new ideas have been 'revealed' in either dreams (Mendeleyev?) or under the influence of halucinogenics. (Crick's idea for the structure of DNA)
I fear, however, that there are far too many vested interests for a serious look at what may be the true nature of man and mind ever to be undertaken. But still, I'm well into my sixties so I won't have too long to wait to find out at least some of the truth.
To start with DH, i am not one to be bashful; you are going to read items your beliefs may clash with but that is not my fault.
I speak truth, and you either deal with it, or you don't!
Muhammed could not read or write so not one item of a book called quran even existed while Muhammed was alive.
067.019
Do they not observe the birds above them, spreading their wings and folding them in? None can uphold them except (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly it is He that watches over all things.
Most of the Quran is talking about the last chapter!
Now if you wish to be faithful, then have faith Allah will provide and be honest enough to realize the absolute has not been furnished or the 'end of days' and the judgment and Peace would already exist. (as promised)
If you want to discuss Quran, then open a thread and bring on your best of the best Iman.
Notice the whole issue is of the light:
057.013
One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers: "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said: "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)!" So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!
the rules are to be honest and faithful to truth.....
I speak truth, and you either deal with it, or you don't!
Every word ever was put to stone, pen, paper or what have you by man/women. All cases!What makes you assume mankind created words?
Muhammed could not read or write so not one item of a book called quran even existed while Muhammed was alive.
then take lessons:Your parable is wasted on me. I don't believe in evolution. Nor do I believe dinosaurs turned into birds.
067.019
Do they not observe the birds above them, spreading their wings and folding them in? None can uphold them except (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly it is He that watches over all things.
Read these four (Fatir, Ya Seen, Al ghafir, Al mulk) in total, and remember I said, the majority of the quran is about 'the coming truth'.As for the Quran, I challenge you to provide evidence for your claims. I am well acquainted and your point about the Quran being vague about this is wrong.
Except the 'promise' was not furnished. (maryam)The Quran clearly mentions the Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him) as the last messenger of God.
Most of the Quran is talking about the last chapter!
Now if you wish to be faithful, then have faith Allah will provide and be honest enough to realize the absolute has not been furnished or the 'end of days' and the judgment and Peace would already exist. (as promised)
If you want to discuss Quran, then open a thread and bring on your best of the best Iman.
Notice the whole issue is of the light:
057.013
One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers: "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said: "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)!" So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!
the rules are to be honest and faithful to truth.....
if truth 'confuses' then be honest with yourself and check everything to remove the confusion.
i find, that many who state as you have, are not really confused but are becoming aware and choose not to face reality!
nothing being said is against common sense
it may be against beliefs and accepted paradigm but that is what using your mind, the internet and questions allows you to address
if you allow honesty to step in, then be humble and simply allow yourself to begin the new homework to be absolutely certain.
but to roll over and say "i don't wanna" is not my fault, but your own choice.
Either you want to know, or you don't!
That ain't my choice!
I didn't say I'm confused. I asked why you're being confusing.
You contradict yourself time & time again.
You wouldn't know truth if it was a matter of life & death.
You argue with another, each with no evidence, each of you trying to pass your beliefs as absolute truth. The other's, at least, are much more consistent than yours.
You obviously don't want to know. It is enough for you to fool yourself.
Your claims are certainly against sense. You are the 1 who doesn't face reality.
I didn't say I'm confused. I asked why you're being confusing.
You contradict yourself time & time again.
point out something 'contradicting' :bugeye:
i am not to proud to learn
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
To start with DH, i am not one to be bashful; you are going to read items your beliefs may clash with but that is not my fault.
I speak truth, and you either deal with it, or you don't!
I have no problem with you voicing your beliefs. I have never indicated anything otherwise. I am merely asking for some clarification of your statements.
Every word ever was put to stone, pen, paper or what have you by man/women. All cases!
Muhammed could not read or write so not one item of a book called quran even existed while Muhammed was alive.
The word is not written, it is spoken. Furthermore if we accept God as All-Knowing, then we would know, as the Quran tells us also, that the words were with God and God taught them to man through speech. Many societies exist without written words, oral tradition can much earlier than the written tradition.
Furthermore, though the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) could not write, yet he could speak. The Quran literally means (the recitation), the written word is not the Quran, it is the spoken word which is the Quran. The Quran was written down and organized during the Prophet's lifetime by his disciples, under his guidance.
then take lessons:
067.019
Do they not observe the birds above them, spreading their wings and folding them in? None can uphold them except (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly it is He that watches over all things.
How does this prove that birds evolved from pre-existing creation? This is a verse related to convince man of the presence of God, due to the natural world He created for us.
The context of this verse in is the creation of heavens, creatures, and the earth. http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/67.htm
Read these four (Fatir, Ya Seen, Al ghafir, Al mulk) in total, and remember I said, the majority of the quran is about 'the coming truth'.
Surat Fatir http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/35.htm
Ya Seen http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/36.htm
Al Ghafir http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/40.htm
Al Mulk http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/67.htm
Now what do you want me to look at here. Provide the verses which you use to support your claim. I will explain it from my view.
Except the 'promise' was not furnished. (maryam)
Most of the Quran is talking about the last chapter!
The promise relating to what? Can you find this verse for me here? http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/19.htm
The Quran discusses the post-death coming of the Judgment day and its results (Paradise or Hellfire), that is the last chapter. The Quran touches briefly on events in our future only once, when mentioning the return of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him). It is interesting to note that the Mahdi, nor the Anti-Christ are not mentioned in the Quran, but the Hadith. Thus your argument falls apart when analyzed from the Quranic perspective. The Quran is a book for all time, and cannot be isolated either to the past, present, nor the future.
Surah Al Ma'ida 5:3 "... This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion... "
Now if you wish to be faithful, then have faith Allah will provide and be honest enough to realize the absolute has not been furnished or the 'end of days' and the judgment and Peace would already exist. (as promised)
If you want to discuss Quran, then open a thread and bring on your best of the best Iman.
We are discussing your claims that the Quran claims there to be another prophet. The Quran repeatedly denies this. Such an unfounded claim can be put to rest with only one verse:
Surah al-Ahzab 33:40 "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal (End) of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things."
Hadith: "In My Ummah (Islamic Nation), there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me. (Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)"
There are more: http://www.answering-christianity.com/last_prophet.htm
Notice the whole issue is of the light:
057.013
One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers: "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said: "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)!" So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!
the rules are to be honest and faithful to truth.....
Surah Al-Hadeed http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/57.htm
57:7. "Believe in Allah and His apostle (Prophet Muhammad), and spend (in charity) out of the (substance) whereof He has made you heirs. For, those of you who believe and spend (in charity),- for them is a great Reward. "
It is not sufficient to accept Allah swt, according to the Quran, but one must also accept the Prophet Muhammad (as the final messenger) to earn the great reward (Paradise, Jannat).
You are correct, light does feature prominently in the Quran. I still don't see how this proves your point.
Context:
57:12. One Day shalt thou see the believing men and the believing women- how their Light runs forward before them and by their right hands: (their greeting will be): "Good News for you this Day! Gardens beneath which flow rivers! to dwell therein for aye! This is indeed the highest Achievement!"
13. One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers: "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said: "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)!" So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!
14. (Those without) will call out, "Were we not with you?" (The others) will reply, "True! but ye led yourselves into temptation; ye looked forward (to our ruin); ye doubted ((Allah)'s Promise); and (your false) desires deceived you; until there issued the Command of Allah. And the Deceiver deceived you in respect of Allah.
15. "This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah." Your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is!"
16. Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.
17. Know ye (all) that Allah giveth life to the earth after its death! already have We shown the Signs plainly to you, that ye may learn wisdom.
18. For those who give in Charity, men and women, and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan, it shall be increased manifold (to their credit), and they shall have (besides) a liberal reward.
19. And those who believe in Allah and His apostles- they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify), in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs,- they are the Companions of Hell-Fire.
Finally, we end with the most important teaching of the Quran. Acceptance of the whole, without rejected any portion. This verse is addressed to the Children of Israel, but it is also applicable to us.
Surat al Baqara 2:85 "...Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? ..."
Thus we see that, from the wisdom of the Quran. We must either fully accept the Quran if we are to attain its guidance. Taking pieces of verses from a whole chapter, and relating it out of the context of the Quran or the hadith (the words and actions of the Prophet), we are left with a shaky foundation, which is not only confusing to others, but also ourselves.
Allah swt guide us to the straight path. Ameen.
falsehood must exist for truth to exist. Just as for there to be light, there needs to be darkness.
Absurd.
not the intent
Most of the world has literature that the last chapter is yet to come.(and by a man)
see the kalki in hindu, the pahana of indigenous, the shaman, mahdi, great white brother........... the list is huge and can be found in most every religious belief system on earth............
:bugeye:
.
Kalki is not supposed to be a prophet, but next Incarnate of Vishnu. While other religions do not provide a firm date for their next prophet, Kalki is slated to descend 427,000 years in future. pucca time frame.
He SHALL not end the world too.
same thing another team suggests about Jesus. (i guess in both concepts, back 2k yrs ago and his purported return in revelations)Kalki is not supposed to be a prophet, but next Incarnate of Vishnu.
Then to look at the quran, they also say on the 'days of judgment' that the boss himself is supposed to show up.
In fact, most all of the religions believe the almighty himself is supposed to be the who, that be the he, often called messiah moshiah pahanna, kalki, adi buddha, christ........ the list is hugenormous.
While other religions do not provide a firm date for their next prophet, Kalki is slated to descend 427,000 years in future. pucca time frame.
each of the beliefs have their own clock too, as well none really know.
i wouldn't think the boss would be intending anything of the suchHe SHALL not end the world too.
if you look around and smell the air; god didn't make nuclear warheads and create the conflict in the middle east
nor did any single thing or beast.
mankind not only brings the fire from the sky, the doomsday mare (nuclear subs) but also judges their peers
all a man can do is share knowledge and in that reality, each can know God is everything you ever experienced and has never left or been separate from mankind since the very beginning.
'we the people' (mankind) are what do all the choosing/damage/judgment; the boss (existence) is experiencing everything we are doing to ourselves.
what the kalki does is reveal but he is not some blue guy (krishna/avatar) with monsters to kick some corrupt butts
same thing another team suggests about Jesus. (i guess in both concepts, back 2k yrs ago and his purported return in revelations)
Then to look at the quran, they also say on the 'days of judgment' that the boss himself is supposed to show up.
In fact, most all of the religions believe the almighty himself is supposed to be the who, that be the he, often called messiah moshiah pahanna, kalki, adi buddha, christ........ the list is hugenormous.
each of the beliefs have their own clock too, as well none really know.
i wouldn't think the boss would be intending anything of the such
if you look around and smell the air; god didn't make nuclear warheads and create the conflict in the middle east
nor did any single thing or beast.
mankind not only brings the fire from the sky, the doomsday mare (nuclear subs) but also judges their peers
all a man can do is share knowledge and in that reality, each can know God is everything you ever experienced and has never left or been separate from mankind since the very beginning.
'we the people' (mankind) are what do all the choosing/damage/judgment; the boss (existence) is experiencing everything we are doing to ourselves.
what the kalki does is reveal but he is not some blue guy (krishna/avatar) with monsters to kick some corrupt butts
Two differences. Kalki has a fixed trime frame, Jesus not.
Kalki will not destro the world, Jesus will.
Kalki concept is much older than the Jesus concept and might have inspired the latter.
First of all Jesus never died and he is still alive living as a person which mean it could be anyone out of the 6 billion people. Jesus was and is the best person ever to live. He had a strong connection with God because he truly believed in God and thats what gave him his powers. Most people say they believe in God but In their actual conciousness they do not, so just because a person says they believe in God and maybe even pray in that actual conciousness where we manifest our everyday life does not believe in God you are pretty much lying to yourself and lying to your self will only take you and your self down. Jesus did not die for our sins thats a really stupid thing to say even worse to believe. The people that killed jesus are the ones that added that to the bible so they won't fill guilty for what they did to one of the most pure and godfilled person. When Judgment Day comes do you think God will say you are all forgiven because Jesus died for you, ridicoulous veryone has the power of choice and since you have been given that choice you will all be judged individually and when you die and have earned your right in God's eyes you will go to that place that you thought about on earth what paradise would be.
Why should they feel guilty?The people that killed jesus are the ones that added that to the bible so they won't fill guilty for what they did to one of the most pure and godfilled person.
Surely by killing Jesus they were just fulfilling god's promised ending for Jesus?
:shrug:
They were doing god's work!
First of all Jesus never died and he is still alive living as a person which mean it could be anyone out of the 6 billion people.
Jesus did not die for our sins that's a really stupid thing to say even worse to believe. The people that killed Jesus are the ones that added that to the bible so they won't fill guilty for what they did to one of the most pure and god filled person.
When Judgment Day comes do you think God will say you are all forgiven because Jesus died for you, ridiculous everyone has the power of choice and since you have been given that choice you will all be judged individually and when you die and have earned your right in God's eyes you will go to that place that you thought about on earth what paradise would be.
That's not a very rosy picture you're painting there friend.
Jesus did not die for our sins....you say?
OK, sins as in drinking, lying, etc, etc...maybe not.
He died to take away our "sin" singular, which is our unbelief.
It is that underlying unbelief which causes the other things to manifest in our lives.
It is a matter of a conversion of the heart.
It is a personal decision to follow that Spirit's leading or to reject it and go your own way.
"They that are led of the Spirit of God, they shall be called the sons of God".
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