Why can't religon and science be friends?

[Shadow1]

.

60% because science thinks religion is a fantasy and an illusion.

And 40% because science still has a massive grudge against religion for the dark ages and scientific repression etc...

Which isnt unwarrented, the fact is that Religion really has screwed over a lot of people.

there is no such a thing called dark ages for the world, just dark ages for europe, not the world
at that dark age, of europe,
arabs had their golden ages, invneted soo sooo many stuff
here's a link
check it out
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1365832670729&ref=mf

 

[Shadow1]

60% because science thinks religion is a fantasy and an illusion.

And 40% because science still has a massive grudge against religion for the dark ages and scientific repression etc...

Which isnt unwarrented, the fact is that Religion really has screwed over a lot of people.

scruing people, effcorse not most, those minorities,
tv. is not going to showgood things, i mean, show good relegion people, it always shows extremists, and uneductaed people
so, you cant judge by t.v.
you can only judge, if you lived it, if you saw those people and talked to them in the real life

 

[fedr808]

there is no such a thing called dark ages for the world, just dark ages for europe, not the world
at that dark age, of europe,
arabs had their golden ages, invneted soo sooo many stuff
here's a link
check it out
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1365832670729&ref=mf

shadow, as impressive as what they invented is.

It was not the golden age of science, for their civilization it may have been.

But for humanity it wasnt.

The fact is that Religion has always treated the idea of science second to the idea of religion and blind faith.

 

[Shadow1]

.

So what exactly? Just because they had a religion doesnt mean they were religious scientists.

Fact is that you cant have Religion with science.

The reason why is if you are predominantly religious whenever you make some sort of scientific finding that disagrees with something religion you throw it out. And that's not science.

You can be predominantly scientific with religion, because whenever you have something religious that disagrees with a scientific finding you can simply ignore the religious text.

Besides the fact the church hated Galileo's guts, why would you put him up there?

so, when you read in quran, that earth is round, and moon trun aroudn it, and earth turn around the sun, and turns aroudn it self, also the moon turns aroudn it self, are you going to say no, the earth is the center?
when you read in quran, about the space expantion, or the force that keep all the space structure attached to each other, wich it's gravity, will you say it's not true, when you read, that the sun, is a big ball of fire, where temperature is veryvery very hight, and it lives by the explotions that happends in it, in fact, it mention those nuclear explostions, but, in science, is it wrong? is what i said, against science? or against the physics laws?
i think not,
so, how can explain that, i mean, real things, in relegion, like islam, in quran, that complety approve with science, and physics laws,did you ever heard something in islam or quran saying that earth is the center of univerce or the only living planet, or flat?i think not

 

[Shadow1]

.

shadow, as impressive as what they invented is.

It was not the golden age of science, for their civilization it may have been.

But for humanity it wasnt.

The fact is that Religion has always treated the idea of science second to the idea of religion and blind faith.

if they did, how did they reach all that, cant you see, that without those inventions, we would never be like that toaday,
also, in islam, esspecialy in those times, islam, always calls for science, and search for knoledge, not to stuck in the darkness, and be blind, without analysing stuff,
you think that islam take teh wrong fathe and the blind faith and thinking, cause what you see on toaday's media, esspecially the u.s.a.
they never show nothing, but extremists, and terrorists, ever saw good things about us on your tv?

 

[fedr808]

scruing people, effcorse not most, those minorities,
tv. is not going to showgood things, i mean, show good relegion people, it always shows extremists, and uneductaed people
so, you cant judge by t.v.
you can only judge, if you lived it, if you saw those people and talked to them in the real life

Im Jewish, Im a member of an endangered religion, and I have been and will always be and that is because other religions including Islam and Christianity, actually 80% Christianity and 20% Islam, have kept it that way, sure Islam is pretty new to the game, but Christianity has been doing it for nearly two millenia.

I live and carry the knowledge that many of my ancestors died for what they believed to be right, is it right? maybe, maybe not. So dont act as if Ive seen some documentary about some small genocide and that I consider myself to have lived it first hand for that reason. Almost all of my friends had a family member that either died or barely survived the camps.

I have an Aunt that survived Aushwitz.

My great grandfather passed down a story that when he was a teenager once in Russia. That one day he had stayed out too late and when it got later in the sundays or saturdays the church goers left church and were always riled up by the pastor, and he passed by his friend lying on the ground with his head cracked open because some Christian decided that blaming a child for his problems and killing that child was the right thing to do.


I am lucky that I dont have to live through that, and my kids wont have to live through that, and my grandkids and so on and so forth, but it would be a sin to forget those that had died so I dont have to live through their hell.

 

[Shadow1]

.

shadow, as impressive as what they invented is.

It was not the golden age of science, for their civilization it may have been.

But for humanity it wasnt.

The fact is that Religion has always treated the idea of science second to the idea of religion and blind faith.

also, you desagree, with an entrie assosiation, and an entire reasearches and studies, by many specialists, becuase, you just don't beleive that arabs, had a very very big and important impact on the science of toaday
witjout arabs, you would never have a camera, no eye glasses, no surgeries, no advanced mathematiques, no chemistry, aljebra, is an arabic word in origin, also, chemistry, alkimiyae, is an arabic word, and arabs invented chemistry, ... even mechaniques
...

give me proves, that those arabs, had no impact, an important impact, or any other important inventions on our world of toaday

 

[Shadow1]

.

Im Jewish, Im a member of an endangered religion, and I have been and will always be and that is because other religions including Islam and Christianity, actually 80% Christianity and 20% Islam, have kept it that way, sure Islam is pretty new to the game, but Christianity has been doing it for nearly two millenia.

I live and carry the knowledge that many of my ancestors died for what they believed to be right, is it right? maybe, maybe not. So dont act as if Ive seen some documentary about some small genocide and that I consider myself to have lived it first hand for that reason. Almost all of my friends had a family member that either died or barely survived the camps.

I have an Aunt that survived Aushwitz.

My great grandfather passed down a story that when he was a teenager once in Russia. That one day he had stayed out too late and when it got later in the sundays or saturdays the church goers left church and were always riled up by the pastor, and he passed by his friend lying on the ground with his head cracked open because some Christian decided that blaming a child for his problems and killing that child was the right thing to do.


I am lucky that I dont have to live through that, and my kids wont have to live through that, and my grandkids and so on and so forth, but it would be a sin to forget those that had died so I dont have to live through their hell.

aw, sorry for your past,
i'm from Tunisia, jews come to, each year, to their imprtant temple or somethign in Djerba, you know it?

 

[Dywyddyr]

did you ever heard something in islam or quran saying that earth is the center of univerce or the only living planet, or flat?i think not

Flat Earth:
Sura Taha (20:53)
Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.
Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10)
Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.
Sura An-Naba (78:6)
Have We not made the earth as a bed,
Sura An-Naziat (79:30)
And after that He spread the earth;

Sun goes round the Earth:
Sura An-Naml (27:61)
Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilâh (god) with Allâh? Nay, but most of them know not.

Earth at the centre:
[2:29] He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven universes therein, and He is fully aware of all things.
[37:6] We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.
[67:3] He created seven universes in layers.

In other words the universe is layered (as concentric spheres or circles, since everything (but the Earth) moves in orbits), the Earth is on the innermost layer and the Earth is fixed. How can it not be at (or near) the centre?

 

[Shadow1]

.

Flat Earth:
Sura Taha (20:53)
Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.
Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10)
Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.
Sura An-Naba (78:6)
Have We not made the earth as a bed,
Sura An-Naziat (79:30)
And after that He spread the earth;

Sun goes round the Earth:
Sura An-Naml (27:61)
Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilâh (god) with Allâh? Nay, but most of them know not.

Earth at the centre:
[2:29] He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven universes therein, and He is fully aware of all things.
[37:6] We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.
[67:3] He created seven universes in layers.

In other words the universe is layered (as concentric spheres or circles, since everything (but the Earth) moves in orbits), the Earth is on the innermost layer and the Earth is fixed. How can it not be at (or near) the centre?

heavens, or skyies, refer to other planets contain life
bed: making the land not the earth, the land, like a bed,
in the arabic version is more clear,
well, i'm not going to tell you what to beleive, but it enver said that earth is flat,
you cant just read quran like you see it, you have to know what does it refer to, you must understand the tense of each word, as i said, in arabic is more clear,
so, what do you think?

 

[science man]

You could, but if god does exist then science is pointless since it could all change on a whim.

Well then I guess it's pointless to figure out anything. But wait a minute. Didn't bothering to figure anything out give us what we have today. Science hasn't changed it's facts for millions of years, so I don't think it's going to happen any time soon or at all for that matter. That does not measn there isn't a god. Did you ever think that maybe he wants us to evolve? (continue to do what we/ve been doing)

 

[science man]

Well, you could have the Big Bang as the moment of creation - remember in science Steady State was the theory for a long time. And then evolution came after - long after, when the world coalesced, cooled down and nucleotides managed to get consensus.

Thank you, this is what I keep saying and I'm getting tried of having to repeat I even went to my old science on the idea and he agreed with me. (they can be friends because creation could've come first and evolution could've taken it from there) why do you guys argue with simple logic and understanding. Please I beg of you, do what I do when I read topics and posts and take a moment to think.

 

[Randwolf]

Religion and Science could be friends - as much as any two concepts could be friends - if they both sought the same goals.

However, religion seeks to prove that what was will be, while science seeks to prove that what is will continue. In other words science seeks truth, while religion seeks confirmation.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Well then I guess it's pointless to figure out anything. But wait a minute. Didn't bothering to figure anything out give us what we have today.

Maybe you should re-read what I actually wrote: if god does exist then "science" (i.e. reality) is based entirely on god's whim and doesn't tell us one damn thing about the universe.

Science hasn't changed it's facts for millions of years, so I don't think it's going to happen any time soon or at all for that matter.

Millions of years? Where do you get the idea that science has been going for millions of years? Did you skip some classes somewhere?

Thank you, this is what I keep saying and I'm getting tried of having to repeat I even went to my old science on the idea and he agreed with me. (they can be friends because creation could've come first and evolution could've taken it from there)

And I repeat: science is about observation, collecting data and working out how things happened. Creation is saying goddidit, end of story. With god there's nothing that can be worked out.

why do you guys argue with simple logic and understanding. Please I beg of you, do what I do when I read topics and posts and take a moment to think.

Because you're showing neither logic nor understanding. And a failure to actually think.

Creation is relying on, and giving credence to, unproven and unprovable speculation: the antithesis of science. It's abrogating your intelligence in favour of comforting stories.

 

[science man]

Maybe you should re-read what I actually wrote: if god does exist then "science" (i.e. reality) is based entirely on god's whim.

yes I'm saying that, that whim hasn't changed for billions of years, so why would it now.

Millions of years? Where do you get the idea that science has been going for millions of years? Did you skip some classes somewhere?

fine, thousands. w/e. u get the point. (or at least I hope you do)

And I repeat: science is about observation, collecting data and working out how things happened. Creation is saying goddidit, end of story. With god there's nothing that can be worked out.

Oh so just because I didn't do research on the topic means whatever I say about it doesn't. Come on man. Think about what you're that's almost like saying that. Someone would have to do research on the arguement that 2+2=4.

 

[786]

However, religion seeks to prove that what was will be, while science seeks to prove that what is will continue. In other words science seeks truth, while religion seeks confirmation.

Perhaps I can combine them: Science confirms Religion? :shrug:

Its simply how you understand them- I can see them compliment each other while you guys can keep separating them because you can't have science anything to do with religion-

Peace be unto you

 

[Dywyddyr]

yes I'm saying that, that whim hasn't changed for billions of years, so why would it now.

Bzzzt wrong.
If god exists then even yesterday may be a myth. We could have been created this morning with the memories of anything prior to that.
If god exists then science and cause and effect are purely temporary (or even simply illusions...)

fine, thousands. w/e. u get the point. (or at least I hope you do)

Not even thousands. Science as science is a handful of hundred years old.

Oh so just because I didn't do research on the topic means whatever I say about it doesn't. Come on man. Think about what you're that's almost like saying that. Someone would have to do research on the arguement that 2+2=4.

You miss the point. It's not about your research - it's the statement about creation: goddidit. Therefore scientific enquiry comes to a full stop.
What was your comment about reading a post?

 

[science man]

Bzzzt wrong.
If god exists then even yesterday may be a myth. We could have been created this morning with the memories of anything prior to that.
If god exists then science and cause and effect are purely temporary (or even simply illusions...)

wow you really don't get it. I will try one more time but thats it.
In quote to this. Yes, that has the possiblity of being true but it is because God doesn't it to be. Therefore it isn't.

Not even thousands. Science as science is a handful of hundred years old.

whatever. you get the point.

You miss the point. It's not about your research - it's the statement about creation: goddidit. Therefore scientific enquiry comes to a full stop.

why would it? Just becuase creation could be true why does that mean that scientific enquiry has to stop. Isn't scientific enquiry scientific research? I always thought it was.

What was your comment about reading a post?

:huh: you when I said that thing about taking a moment to think before replying?

 

[Dywyddyr]

wow you really don't get it. I will try one more time but thats it.
In quote to this. Yes, that has the possiblity of being true but it is because God doesn't it to be. Therefore it isn't.

Nope, it's you that's missing the point.
If god exists then science isn't real. There is nothing whatsoever that can be relied upon.

why would it? Just becuase creation could be true why does that mean that scientific enquiry has to stop. Isn't scientific enquiry scientific research? I always thought it was.

Because, one more time, if the answer turns out to be goddidit then that halts all inquiry since god is held to be above anything humans can understand.
Why is the sky blue? Because god wants it to be - today.
Why do electrons have a negative charge? Because god thought it was a nice touch.
If god is omnipotent then anything at all is possible and science can't say that what is true today will be true tomorrow.

:huh: you when I said that thing about taking a moment to think before replying?

Exactly: you were were exhorting people to do something you haven't done yourself.

 

[Pandaemoni]

Religion and science do have their incompatibilities. You cannot believe in the scientific theory of evolution *and* believe that God directed evolution to form humans. By believing the latter you are saying the former is absolutely an incorrect theory of the world. "God directed" evolution is a mild form of intelligent design, rather than a belief in the Theory of Evolution.

By its very nature a scientific theory is naturalistic and has no supernatural agencies to it.

That said, there are questions that science does not weigh in on (at present) like where the physical laws of the universe came from, where one can believe in a God consistently with the body of science as understood today.