Why believe in the bible?

I have only witnesses - which is good enough for any court of law.

You're wrong. Invisible witnesses are not good enough for a court of law.

I can neither prove nor disprove my religion (which is why it is called religion and not science)

Well, at least you understand the difference.

You do not believe it out of the same choice.

You're wrong again. I do not believe it for the very same reason I don't believe in dragons: Lack of any evidence whatsoever.

It's not a choice, it's a rational demand.

What I can do is prove the falsehood of evolution as I have already done for you.

Oh please.

A) You haven't done anything except ignore all the counter arguments

B) What we were debating isn't "evolution". How many times I have to drill that into your concrete head is beyond me.

However, if you choose to believe in evolution despite the proof of falsehood,

I'm sorry, where was this proof? Oh, it's invisible.. nm then.

I have nothing to say to you concerning your "religion" of evolution.

Fucking hell, you haven't even learnt what 'religion' means. How much further can we get when you haven't even established the very basics?

Go ahead and believe - that is your choice.

It's not a choice, it's a rational demand.
 
Oops 1, best delete this before David grows too big a head and explodes.. although that doesn't actually sound all that bad :bugeye:
 
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Oops 2, best delete this before David grows too big a head and explodes.. although that doesn't actually sound all that bad :bugeye:
 
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No, religion is always a choice, a belief - that is why it is called faith. I do not have to prove my faith to you, nor do I need to justify it. It is mine. If you reject my witnesses, then so-be-it. I accept them - and that is my choice.

It is not I, but you who ignore the facts of evolution. Since you don't even know the meaning of the word, perhaps you might define the following concepts and put your own words to them:

1) The rise of Cells from non-organic material
2) The change from one-celled life to multi-cellular organisms
3) The diversification of multi-cellular organisms into Kingdoms/Phylum/Class/Order...
4) The variations within a species - speciation.

I would call 1-3 (or at least 2-3 since no evolutionist seems to be able to explain 1 at all) as Macro-Evolution while I would call 4 Micro-Evolution. What would you call these things?

Thus far I have shown how 1 is impossible and I have read your many links concerning 2-3 and have responded as requested (some of which have actually taken days to go through - I notice you are not responding when I give you a link). I have never disputed the truth of 4, which is called adaptability of a species.

BTW, is there some difference between the last three posts? They all look the same? What's the matter, am I getting under your skin... Ah, too bad!
 
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non-organic and organic consist of the same things, so why should one exist but not the other?

I think it funny that people accept an omnipotent and all encompassing god that just exists instead of believing in a universe that just exists and developes...

Anyway, your reasons are strange... betting your life while walking on a razors edge of doubt and falsehood. Go ahead...
 
anonymous2 said:
The problem though David is that your alleged witnesses are dead. What court of law would take a book which has many, many "alleged discrepancies", and is a thousand+ years old and put it on the stand and accept it as fact without the ability to cross examine? Your book is not an acceptable witness in a court of law, at least that I'm aware of.

You mentioned that people didn't question the Bible in the past and just relatively recently started criticizing it. Not true from my understanding. For instance, the book of Daniel was attacked as a forgery by Porphyry, and he lived in the 4th century from my undertstanding. And look at the alleged writings of the "church fathers". In it there are criticisms of Christianity by opponents. Ever hear of Celsus and Trypho? This is not new David. And even if the Bible was completely accepted by everyone, so what? Also, openly attacking the Bible was not really allowed for much of the past. Do you think someone could, in the 5th century, attack the Bible in a Christian controlled area? Look at today in Muslim countries, can you openly attack Jesus? Blasphemy laws were in effect and still are in some places. Many, many people believed the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth. That was the dominant position, wasn't it? The amount of people who believe something doesn't make it true.

I don't have a problem with believing there's a God. I don't have a problem with believing that God created the universe. Science will never explain everything. There will always be, at the least, the "God of the gaps". "God" as an explanation for what we don't, or can't understand.

And the reverse, I don't have a problem with you believing that your alleged witnesses were telling the truth. Christianity is fine, along with other religions, as long as they don't try to enforce their worldview on others through mental manipulation, laws, war, etc.
I really don't think you and I are all that far apart. I am happy to discuss my "religion" with those who share it but I will not try to defend or "prove" it to those who don't - it is unprovable. Yes, sometimes written testimony of dead people is acceptable in court but it is never as acceptable as live witnesses. However, in this case, it is all we have. This does not relate at all to the truth or falsehood of the witnesses, only the avialability for cross-examination. However, those who challenge those witnesses know no more about the verasity of their statements than I do. Their claims of false witness or ghost witnesses, falls on deaf ears (although I will be happy to discuss any discrepencies between witnesses). I don't ask you, or anyone, to believe because I can prove my religion, I can't. Yet, I personally (just for me) nonetheless believe it is true. That is my choice and my Faith.
 
Dreamwalker said:
non-organic and organic consist of the same things, so why should one exist but not the other?
Organic is truely made of the same things as inorganic, the vast differences is that organic copies iteself and reproduces, which inorganic does not (growing crystals are not reproducing themselves). What is it that imparts life to a cell and makes all the "organic machines" move about and do work? The activity in a cell is far more than can be explained by valences or chemical imbalances. Further, if the cell, which is actually quite fragile and sensitive to chemical imbalance, dies, restoring the chemical balance does not bring it back to life. Why? What got it started in the first place? There is a vast difference between non-organic and organic which we do not understand.
 
SnakeLord said:
You're wrong again. I do not believe it for the very same reason I don't believe in dragons: Lack of any evidence whatsoever.


Komodo dragon

dragon-looking.jpg


;)
 
I know, but what got god started in the first place? If the universe needs a start, god also does.


c20H25N3o

You are aware that that thing is only called "dragon" on English?
 
c20H25N3o said:
Komodo dragon ;)
Thanks for the light humor, it is much appreciated!
Dreamwalker said:
I know, but what got god started in the first place? If the universe needs a start, god also does.
I don't know. God did not see fit to tell us that. I am His follower, not His father.
 
No, religion is always a choice, a belief - that is why it is called faith. I do not have to prove my faith to you, nor do I need to justify it. It is mine.

My.. Precioussssssssss.

You remind me of Golem.. Not only by what you say, but the evident lack of sanity that goes with them.

If you reject my witnesses, then so-be-it.

As would a court of law. Why you felt the need to mention a 'court of law', as if it somehow made your argument more pertinent, is beyond me.

But tell me David, why reject the witnesses of say.. Gilgamesh, or Zeus? Kindly give a reason.

I accept them - and that is my choice.

Sure, but you must then appreciate and acknowledge that it doesn't make you right, and nor does it make you sane.

One could only question why you would try to impress that belief upon others when you yourself must acknowledge it's inherent worthlessness to reality?

It is not I, but you who ignore the facts of evolution. Since you don't even know the meaning of the word, perhaps you might define the following concepts and put your own words to them:

1) The rise of Cells from non-organic material
2) The change from one-celled life to multi-cellular organisms
3) The diversification of multi-cellular organisms into Kingdoms/Phylum/Class/Order...
4) The variations within a species - speciation.

I would call 1-3 (or at least 2-3 since no evolutionist seems to be able to explain 1 at all) as Macro-Evolution while I would call 4 Micro-Evolution. What would you call these things?

Thus far I have shown how 1 is impossible and I have read your many links concerning 2-3 and have responded as requested (some of which have actually taken days to go through - I notice you are not responding when I give you a link). I have never disputed the truth of 4, which is called adaptability of a species.

Again? Ffs.. you didn't pay attention the first 50,000 times round. I'm not going through it all again merely for the sake of someone who is both blind and incompetent.

As a question though, (and unlike all the others, I have the feeling this one wont be ignored).. Could you repost the link? I either missed it or it was so worthless my brain forgot all about what it said.

BTW, is there some difference between the last three posts? They all look the same? What's the matter, am I getting under your skin... Ah, too bad!

Yeah, you are.. :rolleyes: There's no chance it had something to do with my internet explorer.. That's right David, accept the stupid answer - as per usual.

Komodo dragon

That's actually rather amusing. Congratulations.
 
Mr. Snake

Ah, you won't answer my questions - yet again. It seems you won't hold yourself to the standard you yourself demand from others. If you capitulate then I declare yet again!

EVOLUTION IS DEAD!
 
Dreamwalker said:
Still your (albeit funny) statement has no worth... Hablan Espanol? :p

The point was that I can stick a picture up of an incredibly beautiful creature that looks like a dragon and is called a 'dragon' in the tongue we are speaking in. Someone said in the same tongue that the creature 'dragon' did not exist.
I was merley pointing out that sometimes things are right under your nose and they are so beautiful that we miss them.

but it's probably of no worth. I am like that
 
Oh, there are questions in what you wrote? You know, it kinda lacks question marks... besides those:
Why? What got it started in the first place?

Just as you cannot answer the questions about god...

In that sense: GOD IS DEAD!
 
Ah, you won't answer my questions - yet again.

If you say so. Oh btw, you obviously missed it:

"But tell me David, why reject the witnesses of say.. Gilgamesh, or Zeus?"

"One could only question why you would try to impress that belief upon others when you yourself must acknowledge it's inherent worthlessness to reality?"

"As a question though, (and unlike all the others, I have the feeling this one wont be ignored).. Could you repost the link?"

Who wont answer questions? Lol.

It seems you won't hold yourself to the standard you yourself demand from others.

You and I both know I answered every single one of your questions, although you seemingly ignored the answers and then ignored the return questions. I do understand that you have little choice now but to try and repair this reputation you give yourself, with fallacies and fraudulent statements, but it doesn't change the reality.

Yes yes yes, I know I know.. you'll just say "I do not have to prove my faith to you, nor do I need to justify it. It is mine", but this doesn't change the reality of the situation either.

Btw, think you could answer the questions yet?

EVOLUTION IS DEAD!

Based upon what? You spent 3 weeks debating something that isn't even "evolution". Fuck knows how many times I've told you that now.
 
I won't try to impress belief of Gilgamesh, or Zeus upon others... if you think it is worthwhile, then you do it. I don't even try to impress my own beliefs on others - I just state them as my opinion and go on.

Why should I answer your questions when you won't answer mine? I asked first - answer the questions! Obviously you can't, or won't (I don't know how to get to a single post url... any help?) BTW, you offered to list all the hypocricies of Jesus from the NT and I accepted - I'm still waiting.
Based upon what? You spent 3 weeks debating something that isn't even "evolution". Fuck knows how many times I've told you that now.
OK, then what is evolution - it's your religion after all, so I guess you can define it however you want.
 
It is to those who "have no eyes to see" Isn't the old adage "you can't describe a rainbow to a blind man"? Faith in God is, to the lost, foolishness.
1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence
 
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