Why aren't christians jewish?

[atheroy]

jesus christ himself was a jew. if christians wanted to follow their god, why do they not follow judaism? this would make sense to me, i might be wrong to think that this would be the case, but if christians are trying to emulate jesus, why are they not of judas faith? anyone one is welcome to reply here, i would like some clarification on the point as my knowledge in this area is rather weak. my point is no less valid for the lack of knowledge- it makes sense to me that christians should believe judaism. (all my opinion here, bash me for it if anyone wants to , come on CA, i'm relying on you here to show me the light in that sour way of yours ).

atheroy

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by atheroy
jesus christ himself was a jew. if christians wanted to follow their god, why do they not follow judaism? this would make sense to me, i might be wrong to think that this would be the case, but if christians are trying to emulate jesus, why are they not of judas faith? anyone one is welcome to reply here, i would like some clarification on the point as my knowledge in this area is rather weak. my point is no less valid for the lack of knowledge- it makes sense to me that christians should believe judaism. (all my opinion here, bash me for it if anyone wants to , come on CA, i'm relying on you here to show me the light in that sour way of yours ).

atheroy

This was the general idea Jesus was trying to get across. Jesus was a Rabbi. He was a devout Jew. He wanted all his followers to be good Jews and go to temple and obey the laws of Judaism. Jesus wasn't trying to start a new religion. Xianity was never meant to exist, and it certainly is something Jesus wouldn't approve of.

 

[Gifted]

Jews follow the Law of Moses. Jesus, in dying, fulfilled that law. It was no longer relevant. So he gave a new law, and that is the basis of Christianity.

 

[chalcedony]

The message of Jesus wasn’t to follow the Law of Moses in order to be saved. His message was that salvation comes through belief in Him. We don’t reject the Old Testament (the Law and the Prophets), but we also are not obligated to follow the Law since that is not where our salvation lies.

That troubled some within the early Christian church. There were those who were Jewish believers who insisted that Gentile believers follow the Judaic traditions. But since it is Jesus who saves us, not works, scripture teaches us that we do not have to follow the rigid legalistic law of Moses. We follow many of its teachings, but only out of love for the Lord, not because we are obligated to.

John 3
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Acts 4
12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Romans 7
6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 3
20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

 

[Gifted]

You're right. The principles stayed the same, the "don't put an egg by the fire on the Sabbath because it might cook and cooking is work" crap was done away with(bad example, because the yadded such things after Moses). The letter was now less important than the spirit.

 

[Flores]

That's exactly the problem

Christians are following Jesus, Jews are following Moses, Muslims are following Muhammed. No one is following the god that created us all. Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed must be tossing and turning in their graves.

 

[Jenyar]

Christians follow the way that Jesus pointed out. But since He walked it himself, there's nothing wrong with saying we are following Jesus to God.

On the topic:
Atheroy: Consider what it means to be a Jew in the religious sense: you have to be born or adopted into the Jewish nation by circumcision and promise to uphold the Law of Moses to the letter. But this places an immense burden on someone who has not been raised into their culture. In fact, it's a burden that few Jews can even carry out convincingly. God chose them, gave them the law, and established his presence on earth through them. By the Law that alienated and distinguished Israel from the nations around it, God made them an example and a forerunner of his redemption: Christ, the last king of the Jews, fulfilled the intention of the Law, and therefore through Him the gentiles were also chosen for salvation. "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Rom. 11) It is not necessary to be Jewish to be chosen - because it is God's prerogative to decide who is chosen.

I think that in order to live like Christ one has to think like a Jew. We do after all have to believe in the prophesies to believe their fulfilment. The Laws of Moses still apply - but only to condemn us. Where the Law has been fulfilled, our debt to it has been payed. But we are still accountable for our own lives, because our lives determine whether we do indeed belong to God, or are just saying so. But since Christ is the instrument of judgment, salvation to those outside the law can only come through Him.

Adding to chalcedony's post, I think this passage is also relevant. Paul wrote extensively on this subect in Romans and especially Ephesians 2:

Rom.2
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Ephesians 3
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

 

[Flores]

What is a Jew?
What is the meaning of the word Jew?

Was Moses the first jew and founder of Judiasm? I think not, because he didn't find out that he was born as a jew until later. What if Moses was not born of jewish origin, would he still be a prophet.This leads me to believe that judiasm is not a religion, but a cult or race.

Who is the first Jew and are jews followers of the creator or members of a club?

 

[Jenyar]

The Jews are the descendents of Isaac, the son of God's promise. Not chosen by man, but by God. Even after Isaac, God chose the youngest son Jacob over the older firstborn, to emphasize that this was not a human decision, but God's own. The covenant was carried by circumcision and nationality throughout history, as a reminder that they are chosen and bound to God. What began with God could only be realized in people with faith, and only carried out by them through the law. But the law was always subject to God. Moses received the laws, lead his people to the promised land, and here David became king. From the line of David, Jesus inherited both the kingdom and God's promise, and fulfilled the prophesies of the messiah and anointed king of the Jews, reconciling the world with the Law and with God. He replaced the physical temple and kingdom with a spiritual one.

You can follow the Jewish cultural history at the Jewish museum.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jesus the Jew

Originally posted by Gifted
Jews follow the Law of Moses. Jesus, in dying, fulfilled that law. It was no longer relevant. So he gave a new law, and that is the basis of Christianity.

But what about the Jews that followed Jesus? Jesus was a Rabbi, for God's sake, he encouraged the Jews to follow the Law of Moses! You people seem to think Jesus was a Xian, but he wasn't! What Jesus did do that was non-Rabbinical teaching was to tell the Jews about the Spirit and eternal life in the Spirit--not through him but through God! Jesus did not give "a new law." Jesus did nothing outside his Rabbinical duties except to explain the wonderment of the Spirit. It was Jesus's followers, Paul, Peter, etc., that created the "new law." Why is it so complicated for you people?

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Jenyar
The Jews are the descendents of Isaac,

I want to see their official family tree? How do you know that today's jews are direct descendents of Issac? And aren't we all descendents of Adam?

Originally posted by Jenyar
the son of God's promise.

Bull Shit? Shame on you Jenyar, shame on you.. Assigning god again sons and inheritance, Shame on you for circulating evil thoughts created by the exclusive club of jews.

Originally posted by Jenyar
Not chosen by man, but by God.

If god has already chosen, then what is judgement for? My god is not a prejudice god that prechoses. WE ARE ALL CREATED EQUAL, not the jewish god though, he choses his promised people and the rest are scum of the earth.

Originally posted by Jenyar
Even after Isaac, God chose the youngest son Jacob over the older firstborn, to emphasize that this was not a human decision, but God's own.

Bull Shit, how did god choose Jacob? And what did he choose him for? Does that mean that the older firstborn and his children are forgotten scum.....What god is that that chooses a brother on another on based on merit and faith. He is a god that breaks the family ties and creates confusion. It's obviously not the work of god, but greedy men who are interested in inheriting god while god is alive.

Originally posted by Jenyar
The covenant was carried by circumcision and nationality throughout history,

Voodooo crap, god doesn't accept neither their nationality or circumcision.

Originally posted by Jenyar
as a reminder that they are chosen and bound to God. What began with God could only be realized in people with faith, and only carried out by them through the law. But the law was always subject to God. Moses received the laws, lead his people to the promised land, and here David became king. From the line of David, Jesus inherited both the kingdom and God's promise, and fulfilled the prophesies of the messiah and anointed king of the Jews, reconciling the world with the Law and with God. He replaced the physical temple and kingdom with a spiritual one.

Keep telling yourself that...Sounds like a good story.

Originally posted by Jenyar
You can follow the Jewish cultural history at the

I don't need to follow any history. I'm busy making my own.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jesus and Jewish Law

Originally posted by chalcedony
The message of Jesus wasn’t to follow the Law of Moses in order to be saved. His message was that salvation comes through belief in Him. We don’t reject the Old Testament (the Law and the Prophets), but we also are not obligated to follow the Law since that is not where our salvation lies.

That troubled some within the early Christian church. There were those who were Jewish believers who insisted that Gentile believers follow the Judaic traditions. But since it is Jesus who saves us, not works, scripture teaches us that we do not have to follow the rigid legalistic law of Moses. We follow many of its teachings, but only out of love for the Lord, not because we are obligated to. /QUOTE]

I just answered the first question in my last post. This question goes entirely against what Jesus taught as a Rabbi. The Jews didn't believe in salvation, so you are wrong on both counts.

Jesus NEVER, I repeat, NEVER said that "salvation comes through believe in Him." Jesus didn't even understand the concept of "salvation!" Jews don't believe in it. It was Jesus's followers, again, Paul, Peter, and the like, who created the myth of salvation through Jesus!

Unless one is a Jew, one is not obligated to follow the Law of Moses. Of course, salvation has nothing to do with the Law of Moses! It has nothing to do with Jesus, either!

The "early church" didn't exist until 325 AD.

You refer to "Jewish believers." Jews were not simply "believers," Judaism was a way of life that Gentiles did not follow. There is no record of Jews trying to convert Gentiles (except for Paul's myth.

You are correct, as a non-Jew, you do not have to follow the Law of Moses. Incidently, there was no "Law of Jesus." The idea of salvation was invented by Paul much later after Jesus allegedly "died."

As Xians, you all pick and choose what you want to follow and what you don't. The Bible is highly conflicted with errors, and you really don't know what you believe is true or not. It's like a cat and mouse game... a hide and seek game... a hunt and peck game... a stab in the dark.

Technically, you are not "obligated" to follow anything on this Earth except your Soul from where all wisdom comes (through God). Xians are too busy to follow what they believe Jesus to have said, when it was actually Paul and his cohorts. So, you've even missed the Xian boat! If you believe in Jesus, why don't you just do what he really said, and not what Paul said he said? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. This is all you have to do. I'm not an Xian, but I understand it.

 

[Quigly]

I want to see their official family tree? How do you know that today's jews are direct descendents of Issac? And aren't we all descendents of Adam

Show me that Ishmael was the one that was chosen and not Issac as you believe.

Bull Shit, how did god choose Jacob? And what did he choose him for? Does that mean that the older firstborn and his children are forgotten scum.....What god is that that chooses a brother on another on based on merit and faith. He is a god that breaks the family ties and creates confusion. It's obviously not the work of god, but greedy men who are interested in inheriting god while god is alive.

Malachi 1:2-3
2.I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3. And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
and also

Romans 9:13 References the above verse.

Just read it word for word, It is pretty clear. It wasn't to bring family dissension, but it was to show that God made the choose, not man.

WE ARE ALL CREATED EQUAL

Actually, none of us were created by the hand of God as Adam and Eve were, we are all a product of nature, and that being also, a sinful nature. Yes, we were all created equal unto sin, but some will overcome sin through Jesus Christ.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Quigly
Show me that Ishmael was the one that was chosen and not Issac as you believe.

I don't believe that Ismael was chosen for anything. I don't belive in the chosen people concept. This is strictly jewish belives. I defy you to you me in the Quran that god chose Ismael for anything. It's you that believe in the chosen people crap not me.

Originally posted by Quigly
Just read it word for word, It is pretty clear. It wasn't to bring family dissension, but it was to show that God made the choose, not man.

I read it and it's not god words. If god is to speak, he would say important stuff, not a bunch of garbage history about which tit did the prophet kiss first before he slept with his which daughter.

Originally posted by Quigly
Actually, none of us were created by the hand of God as Adam and Eve were, we are all a product of nature, and that being also, a sinful nature. Yes, we were all created equal unto sin, but some will overcome sin through Jesus Christ.

Keep believing that....After people believed in christianity and Islam, Satan couldn't get them using the old techniques of stone, sun, moon, and other gods. His new techniques is to use their own believes to make them disbelieve. Watch it, that Satan is very tricky.

 

[Gifted]

It was explained to me that the word "Jew" didn't come into use until later in the Old Testament, which I'm reading through right now . As I understand it, the Tribes were scattered, intermarried, etc., and somewhere along the line, the remnant, mostly Judah, got the name. You can be an Isrealite and not be a Jew. But all Jews are Isrealites.

They didn't do too bad most of the time when they had a prophet to guide them. Perhaps the only true church would have such a calling...

 

[Quigly]

I don't believe that Ismael was chosen for anything. I don't belive in the chosen people concept. This is strictly jewish belives. I defy you to you me in the Quran that god chose Ismael for anything. It's you that believe in the chosen people crap not me.

Oh sorry about that. I thought in another thread a while back that Muslims believe that Ishmael was chosen son and not Issac as it was written in the Quaran.

I read it and it's not god words. If god is to speak, he would say important stuff, not a bunch of garbage history about which tit did the prophet kiss first before he slept with his which daughter.

Christians believe in the Bible, Muslims believe in the Quaran. How can you know which is right? You believe words a man wrote also.

Keep believing that....After people believed in christianity and Islam, Satan couldn't get them using the old techniques of stone, sun, moon, and other gods. His new techniques is to use their own believes to make them disbelieve. Watch it, that Satan is very tricky.

Satan is created just like the angels and you and me. He has no power except that given to him from God.

Jews became a distinguished people once God called Abraham to circumcision. Gen. 17:24 Then there were two groups the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Quigly
Then there were two groups the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

On the subject of cicumcision. I'm muslim. All muslims are circumcised. When I had my son, I was determined not to circumcise him....My son is not circumcised and a god who will judge him based on a useless peace of skin is a fake god.

 

[Quigly]

Circumcision in the old testament was an indication of outward obedience. Keep in mind, the old law was about works.

The new testament talks about circumcision of the heart. Only God judges the heart of man. The inward circumcision is the obedience to God, that is why it baffled the religious leaders when Jesus said the gift was for the gentiles as well (gentiles being the uncircumsized people.) Salvation of the heart is for all people is what Jesus preached.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

The First Born Son--The Chosen

Originally posted by Quigly
Show me that Ishmael was the one that was chosen and not Issac as you believe.

Actually, none of us were created by the hand of God as Adam and Eve were, we are all a product of nature, and that being also, a sinful nature. Yes, we were all created equal unto sin, but some will overcome sin through Jesus Christ.

I'm not Muslim, and therefore I cannot quote the Qur'an, but Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham and the chosen one. Why is it you Xians always pick and choose what you want to believe rather than what is true?

Adam and Eve were created just like we were created. We all evolved. I know this is not a word you have in your vocabulary, but it is a fact. We could probably also guess that Adam and Eve had long arms and a hairy body. Hey, maybe the forbidden fruit was a banana? Anybody think of that?

The idea of being "created equal in sin" means nothing more than being in bodily form which is "corrupt" and not "sinful" as you all hunt and peck to choose your beliefs. We are mortals, and as mortals, we have a physical body (Earthsuit) that lives and dies. Our Spirit never dies. It is eternal. "Corrupt" does NOT mean sinfulness like you all believe, it simply means the body dies.

The body lives, and the body dies. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. While we are in bodily form, and the only reason we came here in bodily form, is to carry the One Spirit of God across the face of the Earth. God dwells within us. God is our Soul. God is our eternal life. That is the gift we have for eternity. There is nothing to be saved from, and Jesus was no savior. This is the message HE tried to leave, but it got bastardized by Paul and his band of spiritual thieves. If you're alive right now, you've already attained "salvation." Go figure.

 

[okinrus]

On the subject of cicumcision. I'm muslim. All muslims are circumcised. When I had my son, I was determined not to circumcise him....My son is not circumcised and a god who will judge him based on a useless peace of skin is a fake god

People do different things to set them apart from God. For example, muslims and Jews don't eat pork because it sets them apart and it's somewhat unhealthy. This seems to be another irrational attack from M*W. Well yes, I am circumcised and my cousins are Jewish. The Jews were chosen, not so that they would all be saved, but so that they would spread the good news and the wisdom of God. This has been God's plan since Abraham through which God said that all nations would bless his name.

Jesus NEVER, I repeat, NEVER said that "salvation comes through believe in Him." Jesus didn't even understand the concept of "salvation!" Jews don't believe in it. It was Jesus's followers, again, Paul, Peter, and the like, who created the myth of salvation through Jesus!

Have you even read Isaiah? Isn't the entire exodus a story of salvation?

<i>The "early church" didn't exist until 325 AD.</i>
Well you can find earlier documents than 325AD at www.ccel.org
Most people use the term early church to mean the church before the council of Nicea(325AD).

As Xians, you all pick and choose what you want to follow and what you don't. The Bible is highly conflicted with errors, and you really don't know what you believe is true or not. It's like a cat and mouse game... a hide and seek game... a hunt and peck game... a stab in the dark.

Jesus said that what enters your stomach does not defile you. If what enters your stomach doesn't then neither does what you wear. So the dietary laws of the Torah have been rejected but this not to say that individuals will not find value in fasting. And there are common sense restrictions on what people should wear.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. This is all you have to do. I'm not an Xian, but I understand it.

Then what's with all the attacks on Paul for? You don't really know Paul, talked with him or read all of his books but you seem to dislike him.