Who's Our Leader?
- Thread starter Tyler
- Start date
Awww....thanks Banshee! It's not often I'm praised for being rebel-istic 
I am not a rebel. I am my own leader, as in: I can think for myself and do not need to choose a leader to follow his/her thoughts/view on life.
Why should I stop? To follow your orders? This is exactly what I mean. I will not stop, not in a long run. Forget it.
On this boards it very often occurs that the majority here agrees with eachother. Why is that? To be not out of tune, to belong with the majority? As in a group? A herd, if you want?
Banshee:
"I am not a rebel. I am my own leader, as in: I can think for myself and do not need to choose a leader to follow his/her thoughts/view on life."
Is not "I my own leader" the loudest cry of the slave?
Okay okay okay, I'll stop talking like Zarathrusra now.
Northwind:
I say different and I'm still waiting for an anvil.
"I am not a rebel. I am my own leader, as in: I can think for myself and do not need to choose a leader to follow his/her thoughts/view on life."
Is not "I my own leader" the loudest cry of the slave?
Okay okay okay, I'll stop talking like Zarathrusra now.
Northwind:
I say different and I'm still waiting for an anvil.
Our gang comedy?
Tyler
A simple comparison:
• Christian Cadre: This is a term that I used to refer to a small group of Christian posters who, throughout 2001, variously mucked up discussions with pointless digressions, divisive anger, or egotistical retorts that had nothing to do with the topic. Between the autumn, 2001 rhetorical warfare that broke out and the most likely coincidental disappearance of some of these posters (and a resulting reduction of the Christian voice at these forums), certain posters such as Tony1, KalvinB, and BlondeCupid, among others, often argued alongside one another, reinforcing each other almost blindly, and chasing after side issues. If we really, really need citations of those posts, I suppose I can provide them, but anyone who was here between the time Razz posted an editorial cartoon about KalvinB and Tony1 up through the Crucifixion is a fraud topic and a couple of others pertaining to the side arguments that were taking place in the topics should be able to recognize the process I'm describing. Often, it seemed that Tony1 was the de facto "leader" of this particular cadre.
• Sciforums "atheist" gang: Frankly, I think this notion comes from the observation that Adam apparently needs enforcers. I used to ask Xev and Adam if they kept each other on retainer. One of the most vivid examples is Adam's "innocent bystander" routine, which has been discussed in other topics. I, for instance, found it odd that Adam chose to ask me not to respond to issues put to me by Xev at a time when they appeared to be posting in tandem. I mean, Xev invokes Adam, I respond, and I'm asked to not mention Adam in my discussions with Xev? Wow, looks like a setup, smells like a setup; thankfully, I'm not quite that paranoid. And now Adam has GB-GIL Trans-global arguing on his behalf and admitting that he needs Adam to tell him what my posts say.
In that context, I found it curious when someone else (The Chosen) identified the behavior pattern. I'm more reluctant to point toward a "gang" notion because I, myself, have been accused of running a "Church of Tiassa", and that at a time when I was openly and actively defending atheism. However, The Chosen's comments do, in my perspective, validate an idea that I've been following. I just can't figure out what the deal is.
Apparently there are some atheists here who are resolving such issues as confusion of terms through private messages, as Adam has indicated in the Is this forum about atheism topic, while those atheists do not ask for clarification of terms privately from theists. Is this an effort to present a more "unified" version of atheism? Perhaps, but there are other explanations as well, and I'm as sure as I can be that someone will offer one up.
But such, I think, accounts for almost any impression of a skeptic's or atheist's "gang" at Sciforums.
Or, so says me.
thanx,
Tiassa
Tyler
A simple comparison:
• Christian Cadre: This is a term that I used to refer to a small group of Christian posters who, throughout 2001, variously mucked up discussions with pointless digressions, divisive anger, or egotistical retorts that had nothing to do with the topic. Between the autumn, 2001 rhetorical warfare that broke out and the most likely coincidental disappearance of some of these posters (and a resulting reduction of the Christian voice at these forums), certain posters such as Tony1, KalvinB, and BlondeCupid, among others, often argued alongside one another, reinforcing each other almost blindly, and chasing after side issues. If we really, really need citations of those posts, I suppose I can provide them, but anyone who was here between the time Razz posted an editorial cartoon about KalvinB and Tony1 up through the Crucifixion is a fraud topic and a couple of others pertaining to the side arguments that were taking place in the topics should be able to recognize the process I'm describing. Often, it seemed that Tony1 was the de facto "leader" of this particular cadre.
• Sciforums "atheist" gang: Frankly, I think this notion comes from the observation that Adam apparently needs enforcers. I used to ask Xev and Adam if they kept each other on retainer. One of the most vivid examples is Adam's "innocent bystander" routine, which has been discussed in other topics. I, for instance, found it odd that Adam chose to ask me not to respond to issues put to me by Xev at a time when they appeared to be posting in tandem. I mean, Xev invokes Adam, I respond, and I'm asked to not mention Adam in my discussions with Xev? Wow, looks like a setup, smells like a setup; thankfully, I'm not quite that paranoid. And now Adam has GB-GIL Trans-global arguing on his behalf and admitting that he needs Adam to tell him what my posts say.
In that context, I found it curious when someone else (The Chosen) identified the behavior pattern. I'm more reluctant to point toward a "gang" notion because I, myself, have been accused of running a "Church of Tiassa", and that at a time when I was openly and actively defending atheism. However, The Chosen's comments do, in my perspective, validate an idea that I've been following. I just can't figure out what the deal is.
Apparently there are some atheists here who are resolving such issues as confusion of terms through private messages, as Adam has indicated in the Is this forum about atheism topic, while those atheists do not ask for clarification of terms privately from theists. Is this an effort to present a more "unified" version of atheism? Perhaps, but there are other explanations as well, and I'm as sure as I can be that someone will offer one up.
But such, I think, accounts for almost any impression of a skeptic's or atheist's "gang" at Sciforums.
Or, so says me.
thanx,
Tiassa
--Tyler--
Rats. Actually, I registered last year (hence the Jun 2001 under my screename), but I got bored and toddled off somewhere.
I do have a sense of humour...somewhere
Rats.
Actually, I registered last year (hence the Jun 2001 under my screename), but I got bored and toddled off somewhere.I do have a sense of humour...somewhere
It is time for robot head to make some serious comments in this issue. I wanted to when this thread was created but I was too lazy and too busy. (Flirting with Xev is the priority of 790.)
First of all I want to go all the way back to the beginning. What is a leader and leader of what exactly?
I don't know why we need a leader.
As far as the definition, Tyler wrote:
"So what makes a leader? Well a leader is someone who you think would do good as the captain of a team from sciforums. Someone who would be charismatic, polite, thurough and witty. A captain can be many things. Some captains are sharp-witted and some are reserved. So who do you think is our all-mighty captain? "
That definition is perhaps a little naive and outdated. Or a fantasy D&D type of definition. In real world leaders are determined by politics, NOT attributes or abilities. A lot of people out there want to be leaders. There are not that many leadership "spots" open. Therefore, a leader is someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to save his/her own ass to stay a leader. That is mostly what a leader is. Skinner from Xfiles is good example I can think of.... and a lot of professonal sports coaches. Leaders have to have the ability to deal with prima donnas and hotshots. Most modern day leaders are so dependent on their subordinates to get results so that they are pretty much working for their subordinates. Also leadership is more of a learnt ability rather than a natural ability. You can have a person who is charismatic, polite, thorough and witty like Tyler described but without knowing how to be a leader and play the politics, the person does not get very far. Most leaders in real world have absolutely none of the fantasy land attributes. They became a leader because they are rewarded in some way as part of the incentive system. Even though they know they are not leaders, they choose to become one anyway because they don't want to be told what to do by someone who has contributed less. You would be surprised how many so called leaders like high school football captains or debate team captains don't do very well in next phases on life.
Well, I rambled on too much. I think all this is about is pretty much a popularity contest. We are voting for who we think a homecomming king/queen is. Since that is the case, I am just gonna vote for my friend and the owner of 790 - Xev. I don't care if she is leader or not. I vote for her because she is my friend. I think she can be a leader someday because she is smart and ruthless - both are necessary attributes. Her honesty will get respect from her peers. If she is not a leader now I am sure she will learn to be one. She is also mature beyond her years (how many 18 year olds are as perverted as she is?)
The Chosen raised a very good point about "gangs". There are gangs in every forums. People are social animals. In school or companies there are cliques. In cyberspace things are not any different. Some people in a forum just tend to like some people more than others and become friends within the forum. Personally I have seen gangs totally destroy a forum. They sieze power (often accomplished when one of the memeber become a moderator or become close friend with a moderator) and drive away people they don't agree with. Right now I don't think that is happening here because this forum is not that big. When a forum become really big, the site admin can start to overly rely on moderators to keep things running so therefore that sort of thing can happen. There is at least a mini gang here. The core members are Adam, Tyler, Xev, and I am Xev's robot head. Other fringe members include Asguard, Pully, and others I neglected. Although we attacked The Chosen because his ideas conflicted with Xevology, we are not driving him away or anything. It is normal to have gangs and there is nothing you can or should do about it - as long as the gangs don't completely take over the ship (except Xev of course)
First of all I want to go all the way back to the beginning. What is a leader and leader of what exactly?
I don't know why we need a leader.
As far as the definition, Tyler wrote:
"So what makes a leader? Well a leader is someone who you think would do good as the captain of a team from sciforums. Someone who would be charismatic, polite, thurough and witty. A captain can be many things. Some captains are sharp-witted and some are reserved. So who do you think is our all-mighty captain? "
That definition is perhaps a little naive and outdated. Or a fantasy D&D type of definition. In real world leaders are determined by politics, NOT attributes or abilities. A lot of people out there want to be leaders. There are not that many leadership "spots" open. Therefore, a leader is someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to save his/her own ass to stay a leader. That is mostly what a leader is. Skinner from Xfiles is good example I can think of.... and a lot of professonal sports coaches. Leaders have to have the ability to deal with prima donnas and hotshots. Most modern day leaders are so dependent on their subordinates to get results so that they are pretty much working for their subordinates. Also leadership is more of a learnt ability rather than a natural ability. You can have a person who is charismatic, polite, thorough and witty like Tyler described but without knowing how to be a leader and play the politics, the person does not get very far. Most leaders in real world have absolutely none of the fantasy land attributes. They became a leader because they are rewarded in some way as part of the incentive system. Even though they know they are not leaders, they choose to become one anyway because they don't want to be told what to do by someone who has contributed less. You would be surprised how many so called leaders like high school football captains or debate team captains don't do very well in next phases on life.
Well, I rambled on too much. I think all this is about is pretty much a popularity contest. We are voting for who we think a homecomming king/queen is. Since that is the case, I am just gonna vote for my friend and the owner of 790 - Xev. I don't care if she is leader or not. I vote for her because she is my friend. I think she can be a leader someday because she is smart and ruthless - both are necessary attributes. Her honesty will get respect from her peers. If she is not a leader now I am sure she will learn to be one. She is also mature beyond her years (how many 18 year olds are as perverted as she is?)
The Chosen raised a very good point about "gangs". There are gangs in every forums. People are social animals. In school or companies there are cliques. In cyberspace things are not any different. Some people in a forum just tend to like some people more than others and become friends within the forum. Personally I have seen gangs totally destroy a forum. They sieze power (often accomplished when one of the memeber become a moderator or become close friend with a moderator) and drive away people they don't agree with. Right now I don't think that is happening here because this forum is not that big. When a forum become really big, the site admin can start to overly rely on moderators to keep things running so therefore that sort of thing can happen. There is at least a mini gang here. The core members are Adam, Tyler, Xev, and I am Xev's robot head. Other fringe members include Asguard, Pully, and others I neglected. Although we attacked The Chosen because his ideas conflicted with Xevology, we are not driving him away or anything. It is normal to have gangs and there is nothing you can or should do about it - as long as the gangs don't completely take over the ship (except Xev of course
)Bingo.
Hey, paintball sounds great.