who/whom caused man to become evil?
- Thread starter geeser
- Start date
geeser said:
*************
M*W: I was waiting to read some posts of others. When you say "persons," who do you mean? Do these entities have to be "persons?"
My answer is that humans created themselves as evil and disobedient to the all-powerful creator god. Since there is no "all-powerful creator god," early humans saw themselves as lowly, ignorant creatures who needed to follow the signs in the sky -- the sky gods.
deicide128
Registered Senior Member
i think there is more to the question then this but
adam and eve.
adam and eve.
I find the whole adam and eve thing so utterly 'peculiar'. 'God'(hypothetical) puts them in a garden with a fruit tree that has the knowledge of good and evil. Basically the knowledge 'God' has. He tells them to NOT EAT OF THIS TREE BECAUSE IT WILL BRING DEATH. Now, they do not know what death is, CURIOSITY 1 PIQUED. Then the serpent tells them they can have the knowledge that 'GOD' has if they eat of the fruit of the tree, CURIOSITY 2 PIQUED. Even if Adam and Eve had not eaten of the tree, their would be their descendents who would have to be WARNED to not eat of this tree! WHO WAS TEMPTING WHO? THE SERPENT OR 'GOD? IN MY OPINION, BOTH. Why would he put the tree there? There innocence was their downfall. They were victims actually. Who is to say that 'GOD' did not want them to partake of the tree of knowledge because he did not want them to know THE DECEIT OF HIS WAYS. The judeo-christian god I'm referring to. They were innocent. He was not. They were banished from the garden of eden when they had the knowledge, possibly because they had the knowledge to usurp and figure him out and forge their own way? To have dignity. Or was 'GOD' threatened? Threatened by his own DECEIT WHICH THEY BECAME KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT?
Last edited:
Why exactly are we cursed? Oh yeah, because supposedly, the two first human beings ate apples from some "Tree of Knowledge". Let's not forget, they were led to their doom by an evil, talking snake. If the Garden of Eden was so good, why was there an evil snake in it in the first place?
stretched said:
What kind of answer is this ? :bugeye:
The real question is if 'God' which is good is a separate entity and source from the 'devil' or evil then it actually absolves him of guilt. If he has no true jurisdiction over evil then he is not responsible. This, if in a metaphysical sense as how we experience good and evil is true. However, monotheistic religions such as christianity which purport an all-powerful creator which tolerates evil at the expense of anguish, pain and suffering of his creation is completely evil. What's intriguing is that whether this is fundamentally the case or even reality is besides the point concerning those who embrace such an ideology. In my opinion, to embrace such a concept is evil all-encompassing and dangerous. Is good/evil (god/devil) just different sides of the same coin? Is the separation of good(God) and evil(devil) a reality or is this a ploy to throw us off? Give with the left, take with the right. Is 'God' like the parent that tries to get his child to take sides for his agenda? Is the child kept from matching up the dark side to his own parent? Is this scenario good or evil in control? I believe, evil. Is god and the devil actually in league? No, I think this is a case of deception, an impostor scenario, evil disguised as good as only evil can be in league with evil. In my own experience, good and evil are like oil and water. They cannot be truly reconciled. One subverts or compromises the other. Monotheistic religions are the embodiment and acceptance of not good and evil because it is impossible, but actually evil as ruler, good as slave. The reason why is it purports good but uses evil, therefore it is evil disguised as good. The concept of an omniscient god cannot exist without evil, therefore it is inherently evil and (false) in its ideology as good truly cannot be reconciled to it.
Last edited:
God, who is Jesus (according to Christian doctrine), placed man in a garden. In this garden he placed temptation, (the tree), a tempter, (the snake), and planted a seed of curiousity. (do NOT eat from this tree). On top of that God is allegedly omniscient, so he knew beforehand that man would eat of the tree. Thus God directly caused man to be evil (as in sin) via chomping down on the fruit. Silly isn`t it?
Mosheh Thezion
Registered Senior Member
THEY made themselves evil... by catching animals.. breaking their necks or stabing them.. cutting them open and removing the skin and guts.. and then burning all the flesh...
and after doing all of that... you... as all men.. like wild beast.. eat it..
and you love it... and will gladly kill anything for meat...
now that you know... what it tastes like... and how to get it.
mans first decision... between right and wrong...
we choose wrong.. but our eyes were openned.. and here we are.
-MT
and after doing all of that... you... as all men.. like wild beast.. eat it..
and you love it... and will gladly kill anything for meat...
now that you know... what it tastes like... and how to get it.
mans first decision... between right and wrong...
we choose wrong.. but our eyes were openned.. and here we are.
-MT
jesus and muhammed
sorry my bad , dont think mo's in the bible, so it must be jesus twin brother thomas.
sorry my bad , dont think mo's in the bible, so it must be jesus twin brother thomas.
Last edited:
Jesus never existed, so does Muhammad.
If Muhammad existed, then he was just a freak.
If Muhammad existed, then he was just a freak.
agreed mythbuster but to answer the mans thread I threw two names in I could just as well said micky and donald but there not in the bible it would be more fun if they was.
Why do you think humans are evil?
Unitarian Universalists don't think humans are evil, but misguided. In their belief system everyone is going to heaven, and when they see the truth they will do the right thing.
Unitarian Universalists don't think humans are evil, but misguided. In their belief system everyone is going to heaven, and when they see the truth they will do the right thing.
Mythbuster said:
------------------------
The trees and serpent in the garden are misunderstood because what actually
happened is a mystery that has been hidden from man through sybolism and parables, just like Jesus alway did, when He taught the multitudes as a whole, since Jesus is God revealed in flesh, His methods are always the same.
God changes not.
Jesus pulled His disciples aside and explained the meaning of His parables in private, saying it's not been given to them (the multitudes) to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven but unto you it's been given.
The animals were created, then man. There was a species of animal so close to man it could cross with man in reproduction, -the serpent, was a large humanoid creature, powerful, inteligent, and beatifull, but was only an animal, and could be possessed by Satan and his demons just like the swine at Gardenia.
Man, Adam and Eve, as a higher creation , where to be hosts for God and his children,
to reflect God in this material realm, and were not posessable by Satan and his demons.
Satan saw a way to sabotage God's plan, he thought, by entering the human race through the woman sexually and through the serpent creating a hybrid species that he could possess spiritually.
There is only one form of eternal life, God ...so the tree of life in the garden was God.
The tree of knowledge was the Satan in the serpent, and the knowelge to be like gods was the knowedge of how to create life sexually.
the human race today is this hybrid, and thats why the scriptures say the spirit in man is at war with God. This also explains why God had to come to die as a pure created human with pure blood, not a hybrid so the spirit in that blood, which was the Spirit of God, when released could come upon those who receive it to lead them into all truth.
Last edited:
*************
M*W: What's not to understand? The serpent is the Constellation Serpens that is wedged between the feet of Bootes (Adam) and Virgo (Eve). The GoE is the zodiac. You are right when you say the story of the GoE is a mystery hidden through symbolism, and the story of Jesus is no different. Jesus is just another name for the Sun. He was never at any time during the history of the universe a flesh and blood human being.
*************
M*W: You're also correct when you say "God changes not." From the beginning of recorded history, and even before that when all existed was ancient lore, the story of the GoE was taken from early man's observation of the solar system. The 12 disciples never existed as humans either. They were the 12 signs of the zodiac. The "kingdom of heaven" is no mystery at all.
*************
M*W: I think you've been watching too much Star Trek. However, in the most ancient of days (some 35,000 years ago), artifacts and relics have been found in multiple digs around the world depicting voluptuous women, some giving birth, who had reptilian heads. Satan, on the other hand, was different than the Constellation Serpens. Satan was the god of the darkness, or the Moon. The Moon god opposes the Sun god, and all throughout recorded history, the Moon was a powerful feminine symbol. Lucifer, however, is a Constellation that includes the Planet Venus (the Morningstar). I believe the ancient literature refers to the Morningstar as the Sun, too, and the Morningstar is interchangeable with the Sun.
*************
M*W: A&E weren't real people. They didn't exist. A Constellation cannot possess a human being. The Tree of Life in the GoE doesn't represent God, and the Tree of Knowledge doesn't represent the serpent in the GoE. Sexuality in the GoE does not even come into play. It is the original enemy of the patriarchy!
*************
M*W: Unfortunately, human beings don't have a "soul" or "spirit" per se. We are, however, filled with natural bioelectricity as our life force. When we die, our bioelectricity moves out of our body, but it simply returns to the whole. This is the truth, not what you've learned. Eternal life? Well, we've been here pretty near 35,000 years, mutations and all. I'd say that duration of time is also an eternity... an eternity WITHOUT any god!
Please don't tell me you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, too!
God wrote the truth of His word in three "bibles" ...
One was in the stars, the zodiac, (the Ram, telling the story of Christ's coming to earth as the savior of mankind, and coming back again as the judge of all the earth, as the Lion.)
The second was the great pyramid, created through inspiration by enoch and the sons of god before the flood, not egyptians afterward as popularly believed, (with the other two being lesser copies they made later of the more perfect one they found).
The third is the written word, given to man trough the prophets.
No wonder with God reflected in the stars you could become confused M*W...
One was in the stars, the zodiac, (the Ram, telling the story of Christ's coming to earth as the savior of mankind, and coming back again as the judge of all the earth, as the Lion.)
The second was the great pyramid, created through inspiration by enoch and the sons of god before the flood, not egyptians afterward as popularly believed, (with the other two being lesser copies they made later of the more perfect one they found).
The third is the written word, given to man trough the prophets.
No wonder with God reflected in the stars you could become confused M*W...
Last edited:
TheVisitor said:
Who do you consider prophets? The disciples of Jesus? Jesus? Muhammed? Buddha? Ghandi? One or all?
And if they were prophets, the problem is they are human, therefore flawed, so we must take their example, what was said and what was done and examine to glean our own understanding. You can also learn from other's mistakes as well as their achievements. Learn from what is essential or not, true and right and throw away the rest. Don't focus on the messenger but the message. Otherwise it negates the lesson.
As far as 'prophets' are concerned. I think the term has connotations that are limiting because there are many types of prophets. You see there are spiritual prophets, mathematical prophets, artistic prophets, etc. They are all gifts, knowledge and insights into what makes a whole. We must feed the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. There are and were many prophets. Einstein, Newton, Mozart, Darwin, Jesus, Buddha, Copernicus and onto infinity as there are and still will be many prophets to come to enlighten and share their insight and knowledge to help point out the blind spots and add more pieces of the puzzle and therefore shed greater light if we don't figure it out first.
Last edited: