Who was Jesus talking to when he said...

[Alabaster]

Uhh, Jesus did not speak Greek. He spoke an ancient Arabic dialect. That dialect does not have a Greek etymology, so you're looking at it backwards. Don't confuse people simply because there was no equivalent translation.

Linguistically, "to forsake" is not synonymous with "to abandon." To forsake is passive, and denotes an implication that another has not kept a promise; to abandon is active, and means that one has been left without anything.

My answer is simple. Even the Son of Man had to experience death with doubt in his heart (as had and do many people), or else he could not open the gates of heaven as the Messiah.

Peace be with you.

Yep! Jesus spoke Aramaic.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Yep! Jesus spoke Aramaic.

But the Gospels were written in Greek.

 

[Avatar]

I think the point is that those words in Greek never were the actual words spoken by Jesus.

 

[Learned Hand]

I think the point is that those words in Greek never were the actual words spoken by Jesus.

Exactly. Plus, there is a collection of evidence that St. Matthew wrote his original Gospel in Hebrew, which was later translated.

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/Matt.html


In addition, St. Mark wrote for the benefit of the Romans so they could appreciate the miracles and come to believe, which is why the Gospel of St. Mark leaves out many of the parables. The Romans of the time were more convinced by miracle, as would be many people today.

 

[drummer4Jah]

Ok....first off hey guys! what's up? the reason i became a member of the forum was to just send you this link.

Medicine Woman? please don't say things that are just atheistic assumptions... The book of Acharya S and other people who wrote books like those, are considered useless due to the lack of evidence and sources...

Anyways...The topic is huge and I can't elaborate on it so i will post this video.

Please please watch it and please be careful guys on what you hear.
This video will explain your questions. It is long but it is worth it.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7572663630528394775

 

[Myles]

This doesn't really seem to be comparative religion, certainly not anymore.

At a pinch, we could compare one Christian sect with another. There are hundreds to choose from and they share a common belief; every one believes it has the truth and that all the others are wrong.

 

[Myles]

Yep! Jesus spoke Aramaic.

What a great pity he did'nt write it also. Was he illiterate or did he set out to confuse us. His legacy is a long history of doctrinal and scriptural disputes which contine to this day.

 

[Myles]

sounds like word-ology...like numerology. The attempt to find meaning in radomn convergences of either word fragments or aligned numbers. Both should never be applied to the bible which is an easily translatable text.

So is The Wizard of Oz. What's your point ?

 

[Myles]

Uhh, Jesus did not speak Greek. He spoke an ancient Arabic dialect. That dialect does not have a Greek etymology, so you're looking at it backwards. Don't confuse people simply because there was no equivalent translation.

Linguistically, "to forsake" is not synonymous with "to abandon." To forsake is passive, and denotes an implication that another has not kept a promise; to abandon is active, and means that one has been left without anything.

My answer is simple. Even the Son of Man had to experience death with doubt in his heart (as had and do many people), or else he could not open the gates of heaven as the Messiah.
Peace be with you

Your answer is indeed simple but what does it mean ? Why do you refer to Jesus as the Son of Man? I always thought he had a mother. Come to think of it, did he have a father in the sense that we would understand it ? Wasn't Mary impregnated by an angel or the holy spirit.

 

[Myles]

This is a common misuse of Ockham's proposal. His proposal was that it made sense to test theories moving from the simpler (less entities) to the more complex. It is a methodological proposal and not a metaphysical one. Adn he was clear about this. We all know examples of situations where complex phenomena were discovered adn there are many in the history of science itself where some people thought this or that was more complex and this turned out to be the case. Reducing O's Razor to something like the simpler explanation is more likely to be true is both a misunderstanding of Sir O and not very good thinking. It is also bad science.

Occam said, "do not multiply entities beyond necessity", meaning that the simplest explanation which fits the case makes further elaboration unnecessary.

 

[Pandaemoni]

*************
M*W: To whom was Jesus talking when he allegedly cried out from the cross in Greek, no less, and said, "Eli, eli, lama sabachtheni?" (My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?)

Let me explain... "El" is a shortened form of "Elias," the sun god "Helios," to whom Jesus called out from the cross. "El" is the sun. The "Elohim" also represents the many stars. Also known as the "Ali," who were associated with gods. "Ali" is Egyptian in origin and represents the "Atum," "Aten," and the "Amen," who are all part of "Elohim." "Atum" was later known as "Adam."

Jesus, as the sun of god, was crying out to his heavenly father/creator god, the sun, "Eli" and/or "Helios" who had abandoned him on the cross that day. Then the skies grew dark and stormy as the sun set behind the earth and died.

El is, to my knowledge not a shortened form of Elias, but a shortened form of Elohim, a name for god (or gods). At least yours is the first mention I've ever heard of the Helios theory:

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim#Etymology and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god)#.C4.92l_in_the_Tanakh

The latter specifically states,

In the Tanakh ’elōhîm is the normal word for a god or the great god (or gods). But the form ’ēl also appears, mostly in poetic passages and in the patriarchal narratives attributed to the P source according to the documentary hypothesis.
...
According to church fathers of early Christianity, El was the first Hebrew name of God.

Theories for the etymology of Elohim and El are varied, but do not seem to strongly suggest a connection to the Sun.

 

[drummer4Jah]

Watch this video:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7572663630528394775

 

[tresbien]

So peace is upon me [Jesus] the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life." Trinitarian Christians believe that Jesus was GOD Himself, or part of GOD, came to earth, was crucified on the cross to purify our sins and then raised from death back to life and went up to heaven until he will come back again to this earth. The Noble Quran does not in anyway support this theory!. We Muslims believe that Jesus was born from a Noble Virgin; Mary the Virgin, preached the word of GOD to the people of Israel, raised to Allah Almighty alive (even though he might have been put on the cross, but never actually died), will come back to earth again to fight the army of Satan and then die a natural death and then be raised again back to life from death as we all do in the Day of Judgement. Some Muslim scholars say that Jesus not being crucified in Noble Verse 4:157 means that he was put on the cross but didn't die, and others say that it means that he was not put on the cross itself and never died either. There are some Christian sects such as the Basilidans, the Docetate and the Marcionite do not believe that Jesus was put on the cross.

Either way, it doesn't really matter whether he was put on the cross or not. The more important point is that Jesus never died according to Islam. There is a similar Verse to 19:33 in the Noble Quran that was mentioned to another Messenger of GOD: "So peace on him [Yahya, or John the Baptist] the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life! (The Noble Quran, 19:15)" This Noble Verse (19:15) is similar to 19:33, where it does not at all state that any Messenger of GOD was crucified or will die twice!. The reason why no Messenger of GOD will ever die twice is because Allah Almighty said clearly in His Noble Book that every soul He creates (this includes all of His Messengers and Prophets even Jesus) shall taste death once; "Nor will they [all humans who end up in heaven] there taste death, except the first death; and He will preserve them from the penalty of the blazing fire. (The Noble Quran, 44:56)".

pls vist http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

 

[Myles]

So peace is upon me [Jesus] the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life." Trinitarian Christians believe that Jesus was GOD Himself, or part of GOD, came to earth, was crucified on the cross to purify our sins and then raised from death back to life and went up to heaven until he will come back again to this earth. The Noble Quran does not in anyway support this theory!. We Muslims believe that Jesus was born from a Noble Virgin; Mary the Virgin, preached the word of GOD to the people of Israel, raised to Allah Almighty alive (even though he might have been put on the cross, but never actually died), will come back to earth again to fight the army of Satan and then die a natural death and then be raised again back to life from death as we all do in the Day of Judgement. Some Muslim scholars say that Jesus not being crucified in Noble Verse 4:157 means that he was put on the cross but didn't die, and others say that it means that he was not put on the cross itself and never died either. There are some Christian sects such as the Basilidans, the Docetate and the Marcionite do not believe that Jesus was put on the cross.

Either way, it doesn't really matter whether he was put on the cross or not. The more important point is that Jesus never died according to Islam. There is a similar Verse to 19:33 in the Noble Quran that was mentioned to another Messenger of GOD: "So peace on him [Yahya, or John the Baptist] the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life! (The Noble Quran, 19:15)" This Noble Verse (19:15) is similar to 19:33, where it does not at all state that any Messenger of GOD was crucified or will die twice!. The reason why no Messenger of GOD will ever die twice is because Allah Almighty said clearly in His Noble Book that every soul He creates (this includes all of His Messengers and Prophets even Jesus) shall taste death once; "Nor will they [all humans who end up in heaven] there taste death, except the first death; and He will preserve them from the penalty of the blazing fire. (The Noble Quran, 44:56)".

pls vist http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

Please visit a good bookstore and start learning something of Western philosophy. You can quote the OT, the NT, the Quran, the Upanishads, the Pali canon or any other religious tracts but don't be surprised if you are asled to to provide solid evidence to back up your claims.

 

[tresbien]

Thank u sir.I spent many years learning it at the university.However, as i have my own identity that i am proud of , i see that acculturation is an incurable heart disease .I believe in equality of all races rather than eurocentrism

 

[Myles]

Thank u sir.I spent many years learning it at the university.However, as i have my own identity that i am proud of , i see that acculturation is an incurable heart disease .I believe in equality of all races rather than eurocentrism

So you understand the philosophical objections to the Argument from Design. On what grounds do you reject them.

 

[Dr Mabuse]

OMG..........

The last words from Jesus , were a quote from psalm 22:
in hebrew : " eli, eli , lama azaftani "
or in aramaic (which was the main language in Palestine in first century AD):
" eloi, eloi , metoel mah sabachthani "
The bible simply got it mixed up ...............

Psalm 22 starts with an exclamation of despair but ends with the trust in god .......

Jesus was simply quoting psalm 22 to comfort himself .............

Psalm 22 was a prophecy of His crucifiction...

He was pointing the way to it...

the rest of the stuff in this thread is nonsense...

 

[DAVIDON4U]

woman you are not a Christian and the word of GOD is not in you.Why then do you do the devils work.Do you not see the folly of your words.You should add mislead to your resume.The word of GOD IS HIDDEN FROM YOU AND YOUR ANTICHRIST SPEECHES BETRAY YOU. you have been defeated in spiritual combat by STARION

 

[Captain Kremmen]

STARION?
Do you mean
The Mitsubishi Starion. circa 1989

Looks like a crack dealer's car to me.

 

[Reiku]

*************
M*W: To whom was Jesus talking when he allegedly cried out from the cross in Greek, no less, and said, "Eli, eli, lama sabachtheni?" (My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?)

Let me explain... "El" is a shortened form of "Elias," the sun god "Helios," to whom Jesus called out from the cross. "El" is the sun. The "Elohim" also represents the many stars. Also known as the "Ali," who were associated with gods. "Ali" is Egyptian in origin and represents the "Atum," "Aten," and the "Amen," who are all part of "Elohim." "Atum" was later known as "Adam."

Jesus, as the sun of god, was crying out to his heavenly father/creator god, the sun, "Eli" and/or "Helios" who had abandoned him on the cross that day. Then the skies grew dark and stormy as the sun set behind the earth and died.

Amen means -- ''Let it be,'' or ''Varily.'' It has no direct link to any of the Egyptains gods names. How do you explain for how they say is in Islam ''Dua''?