Who designed the designer?

Jan Ardena said:
I don't remember talking about stuff I looked at.
Click to expand...
But I did.
Jan Ardena said:
I don't recall reporting, or referring to anything like that, at least in this thread.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter when.
Jan Ardena said:
It was you assumption that I was fooled into thinking about what I said
Click to expand...
No such assumption posted.

You posted this falsehood: "It is man that transgresses the laws, not God". I noted it, is all. I didn't claim you had thought about it. I recommend you do think about it - and your motives for not thinking about it, earlier.
 
To no one in particular
Years ago I read a book called The Jet Propelled Couch. If you can find a copy I'm sure it would make fascinating reading for all in this thread and others of much the same flavour

The essence of the main story as told by the writer, a psychiatrist, is as follows. By the way I am going to use lay language not the long professional diagnosis
A referral person walked into his office
They began to converse
The psychiatrist was puzzled because there did not appear to be anything wrong
He asked why had the person been sent
The patient said that he had been making trips to another planet where he was treated like a prince and had been able to solve many of the planets problems and save it from destruction
The psychiatrist noted patient was as nuttey as a fruit cake
He also noted this was such a deeply held belief he would need to engage with the patient at a deep level
He began to question the patient about the other planet, its inhabitants and gained as much information as he could and made extensive notes as to what he was told
From memory this took a few years
One day the psychiatrist was questioning the patient about a discrepancy over some account he had been given earlier
The patient became uneasy
Noticing this the psychiatrist asked what was the problem
The patient confesses that for a few months he had come to the understanding he was as nuttey as a fruit cake
Why had he continued to provide details about the planet and inhabitants and the problems of the planet then

Looking the psychiatrist in the eye he said

"Because you seem to enjoy it so much"

Here endith the lesson of how we can all enjoy our fantasy's which have no connection with reality

Gave the psychiatrist a insight into his self awareness

The Jet Propelled Couch - find it - read it

:)
 
iceaura said:
But I did.
Click to expand...

So why don't you say what you're talking about, then we can discuss it?

iceaura said:
Doesn't matter when.
Click to expand...

If I'm asking, it does.
Or don't I matter?

iceaura said:
You posted this falsehood: "It is man that transgresses the laws, not God". I noted it, is all. I didn't claim you had thought about it. I recommend you do think about it - and your motives for not thinking about it, earlier.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting to hear why it is a '' falsehood"?

Jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
So why don't you say what you're talking about, then we can discuss it?
Click to expand...
I did. Discuss away.
Jan Ardena said:
If I'm asking, it does.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't.
Jan Ardena said:
Or don't I matter?
Click to expand...
That question/answer doesn't matter. How much you identify with it I couldn't say.
Jan Ardena said:
I'm still waiting to hear why it is a '' falsehood"?
Click to expand...
I am not an expert on why your God transgresses the laws, and I don't care enough to become one. Why don't you ask someone who is?
 
I don't believe in a design process, unless God created a nature for the creation to be destroyed. I believe in a singular eternity.
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
The notion of an intelligent designer seems to be religions contribution to science... Not.
Click to expand...

The idea of 'laws of nature' does seem to be derived from religion. Religion seems to have acquired the idea by analogy with the edicts of ancient kings, whose word became law (and hence shaped reality). So the idea emerged that somebody or something must have initially spoken the laws that have governed the universe ever since.

But it stuck me today to enquire who designed the designer.
Click to expand...

Even if we reject theistic sorts of religion (not all religion is theistic) we still have the problem of where the 'laws of physics' come from. Why does reality behave this way rather than that way? What accounts for and undelies all those equations that theoretical physicists love so much?

Did God design the designer or was the designer an alien sent here to design life suitable for the planet Earth.
Click to expand...

The idea that the designer might not have been the highest God remined me of Neoplatonism (which is deeply intertwined with Christian and Islamic theology).

In the Neoplatonic sort of religion that was popular in late antiquity, God is conceived of impersonally as the eternal and incomprehensible Source. (They called it "the One".) This level of divinity is supposedly incomprehensible to the human mind and exceeds every human concept. The motive there was presumably to preserve divine transcendence and it's the source of theistic agnosticism and apophatic theology in the Western traditions. (India arrived at very similar ideas, probably independently. The influences between Western and Indian traditions is a subject of scholarly debate.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

Then reality supposedly originated by a series of emanations from the One. In a nutshell, unchanging logical form and mathematical structure (the Platonic Forms) emanated like sunlight from the One. Then active, changing and creative cosmic mind (Plato's "Demiurge") emanated from that. And so on, as the Demiurge crafted reality in a series of steps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism#Emanations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

There's still a bit of that in modern science, where different kinds of reality are explained in terms of supposedly more fundamental levels. Life is explained in terms of chemistry which is explained in terms of physics. (Physicists get uncomfortable with the question of what explains physics.)

In late-antique and early medieval Neoplatonism the divine is conceived of as a ladder-like hierarchy where each step is explained by the next higher step. Contemplatives try to ascend that ladder in various spiritual exercises to approach and better understand the divine.
 
Last edited:
Jan Ardena said:
There is no better or worse argument.
They're all as non effective as each other.



It is not for someone to show something to another, what they already know, but choose to reject.

Jan.
Click to expand...
///
Again, I cannot accept or reject what I do not know exists. I do not know any god exists.
You perpetually show yourself a damn fool by assuming you know I know what I do not know.
I do not even believe you know. I do not believe you believe.
There is at least 1 argument weaker than others & that is your arrogant asinine assumption that I know what I do not know.
A couple times, you indicated that you understand & accept this then you go right back to your absurd assumption.
It is futile to claim someone rejects what you cannot even show exists.

<>
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top