Who believes and who doesn't?
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Yes, and it leaves no role for God to play, nothing to do.Light Travelling said:
..and occaisionally send out a lighting bolt or two on the heathens, kinda like some hillbilly with a shotgun shooting squirrels.
spidergoat said:
Yeah! See? He could keep busy AND have fun at the same time.
Can't ya' just imagine god sitting up there watching all of us down here muddling through and fighting wars and stealing for each other and writing nasty emails and .....well, all of it. Can't ya' just picture him laughin' his ass off every day at the foolishnes of it all?
Baron Max
Certainly not an idea worth believing in.
God's a Sadist
I believe in God, but... I hate him. If he indeed did create life, universe, and everything related with it, then he is responsible also for creating: horniness which can lead to rape or unprotected sex, which can lead to AIDS; every diseases in the world; genetic deformities; material resources and atoms able to create powerful weapons such as nuclear bombs; natrual calamities; emotional disorders like depression and schizophrenia; ugly people and then creating innate standards built into the minds of human beings so those ugly people would be judged, be ridiculed, and ignored; non-white people and putting racist thoughts into human beings so that minorities would be discriminated, tortured, murdered, belittled, forgotten, ignored, and so much more; etc.
God, should he exist, is responsible for everything good AND evil in this world. If Christianity is true, then he created the Satan that they blame for everything. If Islam is true, then so many people are going to hell for no reason after life. If Judaism is true, then so many non-Jews, which is a HUGE number, are going to be damned eternally, which is an infinite punishment for a finite crime during a finite life. In religions where a God exists, so does hell and since in those religions God created everything, he is responsible for hell and all the suffering it wroughts.
Furthermore, if Christianity is true, God is responsible for killing his own son Jesus and being indifferent to it.
Would you worship a God like that? Would you want to believe in a God like that?
Personally, as hard as it is to believe that God doesn't exist, I really hope that is the case because should there be an afterlife after this life, I am going to hell; no, i will choose to go to hell because as long as one person is going to hell fo eternity, I will support that one person against the God who created and who is responsible for eternal suffering for deeds in a finite life.
I believe in God, but... I hate him. If he indeed did create life, universe, and everything related with it, then he is responsible also for creating: horniness which can lead to rape or unprotected sex, which can lead to AIDS; every diseases in the world; genetic deformities; material resources and atoms able to create powerful weapons such as nuclear bombs; natrual calamities; emotional disorders like depression and schizophrenia; ugly people and then creating innate standards built into the minds of human beings so those ugly people would be judged, be ridiculed, and ignored; non-white people and putting racist thoughts into human beings so that minorities would be discriminated, tortured, murdered, belittled, forgotten, ignored, and so much more; etc.
God, should he exist, is responsible for everything good AND evil in this world. If Christianity is true, then he created the Satan that they blame for everything. If Islam is true, then so many people are going to hell for no reason after life. If Judaism is true, then so many non-Jews, which is a HUGE number, are going to be damned eternally, which is an infinite punishment for a finite crime during a finite life. In religions where a God exists, so does hell and since in those religions God created everything, he is responsible for hell and all the suffering it wroughts.
Furthermore, if Christianity is true, God is responsible for killing his own son Jesus and being indifferent to it.
Would you worship a God like that? Would you want to believe in a God like that?
Personally, as hard as it is to believe that God doesn't exist, I really hope that is the case because should there be an afterlife after this life, I am going to hell; no, i will choose to go to hell because as long as one person is going to hell fo eternity, I will support that one person against the God who created and who is responsible for eternal suffering for deeds in a finite life.
Your conclusions do not follow from the premise 'god exists' nor 'god creates'.
- God is spirit – god creates in spirit.
- God created man – man is spirit
- Man being in the likeness of god can also create
- Man in separation from god creates the phenomenal world. (incuding his own physical body)
- The things you mention are the creation of man not god.
- The primary duality - the separation of spirit from matter.
- End duality, merge with god – all of the things you mention go away.
- This of course is the work of ages, not one lifetime….
The above can all be found in great detail in the worlds rich and varied collection of spiritual and religious literature. If you want to find out about god, try looking a bit further than …….. well, than you have so far
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Why would god 'do' anything? God being ultimate reality.
Us being parts of god; experientially realising this merging with god; duality and illusion disappear
How does anyone account for phenomonal creation, except that it is illusion.
Any theory you come up with will start with "there was a.... " thereby straight away discounting it as a creation theory.
Why have to resort to childrens definitions of god before refuting?
Your conclusions do not follow from the premise 'god exists' nor 'god creates'.
- God is spirit – god creates in spirit.
- God created man – man is spirit
- Man being in the likeness of god can also create
- Man in separation from god creates the phenomenal world. (incuding his own physical body)
- The things you mention are the creation of man not god.
- The primary duality - the separation of spirit from matter.
- End duality, merge with god – all of the things you mention go away.
- This of course is the work of ages, not one lifetime….
The above can all be found in great detail in the worlds rich and varied collection of spiritual and religious literature. If you want to find out about god, try looking a bit further than …….. well, than you have so far
Wait, so hold on a sec, so the things I mentioned (cancer, AIDS, hurricanes,genetic deformities, depression, schizophrenia, lust, greed, being born ugly or being born a minority) are creation of man and not God? So are you saying that we created Cancer? We created volcanic eruptions and earthquakes? We created ultraviolet rays that harm us? We created Alzheimers? We did it? Are you sure?
Um... and also, if we are indeed, created in the likeness of God... Did you know God killed people in all of the religious texts that's mentioned? Ah, no wonder we are murderers, because we are created in his likeness.
And man can create? No, man cannot, unless you're referring to reproduction, but hell, even animals can do that. All man can do is reassemble things that are already here. We assemble metals to turn into swords. We assemble minerals to turn into patroeum which fuels the cars. We don't CREATE; we merely rearrange things. God actually CREATED things out of thin air. We humans can't do that.
And what's the deal with this separation of spirit from matter? Even if we separated into some weird spirit, homelessness will still be there, leukemia will still make us sad, siamese twins will still look back at us, suicide rates caused by being belittled due to one's fatness and ugliness will still continue.
Just think. If God indeed create life, why so many illnesses, why so many evil wicked thoughts in our mind (greed is human nature, not human choice), why so many NATURAL calamities, why so many emotional disorders, why, why why? I'll tell you why.
Because God is a fucking sadist. He created life for his own fucking amusement, and didn't think about all the suffering that could result from his act of creation. And let's say men did create all this shit; well, if god had the power to create men, he sure should have the power to fix it.
Yes they are. Most definately.
Yes I am
You are affirming god exists here??
And here ???
You seem to be not so much an atheist, as a theist that thinks life just isn't fair. A bit like a spoilt child that wants to blame all his circumstance on his parents...
Light, your arguments make no sense. How did man create cancer? How did man create being born a minority? Wait, so I'm Asian because I decided to be Asian? How did man create that? How in the world did man create cancer? Is there technology that makes cancer? What the fuck?
And dude, I'm not an atheist so the argument of me affirming God exists... Yes, it's true. You and I both believe in the existence of God.
The differenc is that I fucking hate him and you worship him. I believe that God created everything, all the good things, all the bad things, and this whole universe itself through a long process of evolution but he created it for his own amusement and to laugh at all the pain and misery we humans all go through.
But let's not go into MY beliefs.
Tell me how humans created cancer. Give me a bit of history of how we did that, cause last time I remember, cancer just happened out of cancer virus, not out of human intentions.
And dude, I'm not an atheist so the argument of me affirming God exists... Yes, it's true. You and I both believe in the existence of God.
The differenc is that I fucking hate him and you worship him. I believe that God created everything, all the good things, all the bad things, and this whole universe itself through a long process of evolution but he created it for his own amusement and to laugh at all the pain and misery we humans all go through.
But let's not go into MY beliefs.
Tell me how humans created cancer. Give me a bit of history of how we did that, cause last time I remember, cancer just happened out of cancer virus, not out of human intentions.
PaladinGirl02
Registered Member
I am a firm believer in the supernatural.
Deism is awfully close to atheism. Popular religion is not like this.
I'm suggesting nothing was ever created.
How about "there always was"?
I just have to give Baron Max a hard time.
Is that compatible with Catholicism?
Falcon is falsely assuming that god's only option is to deal with the problem of evil instantaneously through a single act - god however is dealing with the problem of evil through his own system of justice (dharma - karma - samsara)
As for the others who have jumped on board yet don't advocate that god exists, its difficult to understand how they view evil exists inthe world since without an infinite reference point it becomes impossible to disinguish between good and evil
As for the others who have jumped on board yet don't advocate that god exists, its difficult to understand how they view evil exists inthe world since without an infinite reference point it becomes impossible to disinguish between good and evil
Not a runner , but I have been away for a while… my explanation is briefly as follows;
Man affects his environments in many harmful ways; destruction of the environment, pollution, excessive use and production of chemicals.
Man has also been affecting his body in many harmful ways; excessive consumption of meats and alcohols, of chemicals and medicines, antibiotics etc.
But the biggest effect man has on his environment (and person) are those caused by negative thoughts, emotions and actions. The negative thoughts and behavior carried out by millions of people over tens of thousands of years. These thoughts and emotions of humans do affect not only ourselves and each other but also the environment.
Now you don’t believe that these subtle energies can have such an effect on the biology of humans and the environment of the planet? well I can assure you it does. A simple experiment that might help you believe; take two plants same size and species, place them in same containers in different rooms, water and feed them the same with same sunlight exposure. Now spend some time every day with one plant, think loving thought and talk kindly to it; with the other plants spend the same time thinking how much you hate it and talk to it accordingly. After a few months of this you will see one plant thrive and the other become sick (this will only work if you really feel and express the love and anger not just go through the motions). Now how do you explain this phenomena if thoughts cannot affect the external world. And remember, I am not talking about an individual person here or an individual plant. I am talking about millions upon millions of people expressing their greed, anger, hatred and cruelty over tens of thousands of years. )thats alot of negative energy) This has given rise to many diseases and disasters.
AIDS and cancer and other virus are caused by genetic mutations of course…… but what causes these mutations; what is the trigger. The reasons above are the cause of these diseases.
As for hurricanes, floods etc – I am not going to say that if there were no humans these things would not occur, but as to their frequency and ferocity, humans certainly affect these, for the environmental reasons stated above.
Now my original statement was in refutation of Falcons claim that God did all these things, now I am sure you agree with me that god did not do these things. But what would you say is the cause? just random occurrences? are you really going to say that man does not affect his environment or in any way cause his own diseases and sufferings??:bugeye:
(energy can also be seen working in positive ways such as reiki, and positive energy en mass also benifits the environment and humanity as a whole)
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karma??!!! Karma doesn't fucking exist. If it did, slaveowners a hundred years ago would have gotten what they deserved. But no, they didn't. Some of our most revered men (i.e. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson) were slaveowners that ruined lives. Where was karma for them? Nowhere.
I admit maybe God does have his own system of justice, but did he have to create diseases, plagues, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis that merely destroy lives without any reason? Hmm?
Oh right. The man-ruining-environment-leading-to-shit argument. You know, leprosy and such still existed before men started ruining the environment. Bindness did also and ice age and comet fallings out of the sky existed even in the time of the dinosaurs before humans started messing with the environment. Cold virus was there all on its own and evolved through contacts throug its hosts. Volcanic eruptions, flood, droughts... all existed before Industrial era or before even Renaissance or even before the Roman Empire, before there was much ruination of the environment. As for sunlight exposure, the sun itself contributes to the damaging of the ozone layer, regardless of human's contribution to its damage and thus UV cancer is beyond human control.
So if such things existed even before humans did, then how did humans create it? Hmm?
Man did not create those things. They might have contributed to its evolution and intensification (unintentionally) but even so, the beginning of those shitty thigns has one cause, and you know that cause, whoever the fuck created the universe, what's what.
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