Which god?

[(Q)]

God is as responsible for those bodily deaths as He is for life.

There would be no point to living if a god can simply wipe out tens of thousands of innocent people on a whim. Life on Earth would be little more than a pitstop to a suffering, horrifying death.

How can anyone worship a god so unjustly and arbitrarily fickle? A person would have to be utterly without moral and ethical standards if they center their own life primarily on a god who murders scores of people in a most violent way.

Why Jan, did your god allow all those people to die on that day? Why do you continue to worship him?

 

[Enigma'07]

Because He is sovereign.

 

[Jan Ardena]

(Q),

Why Jan, did your god allow all those people to die on that day? Why do you continue to worship him?

God allows everybody to die at some time, that day was different because so many people died all at once, in a particular region.

Do you think we can live forever?
People die, that is the harsh reality, nobody will escape it.

Jan Ardena.

 

[(Q)]

God allows everybody to die at some time

He didn't allow it, he caused it, according to those who believe in gods. Why would he do such a thing and why would you continue to worship him?

People die, that is the harsh reality, nobody will escape it.

You're evading the point. Why do go on worshiping a god who is a mass murderer?

 

[Yorda]

So, the tens of thousands of dead participated in a mass suicide?

No. People are not aware of their divine self. God is omnipresent so he's also the center of all humans, which we call "I".

 

[(Q)]

People are not aware of their divine self

Then how would you or anyone else know?

God is omnipresent so he's also the center of all humans, which we call "I"

How do you know that? What gives you the impression that all there are in humans is not just human?

 

[Yorda]

Then how would you or anyone else know?

Some are aware of themselves.

How do you know that? What gives you the impression that all there are in humans is not just human?

I just know it. There can be no other "me", no other "God", so everything is just "me". You also call yourself "me", right? You can call God human if you wish. There's no difference between God and a human who has found his true self, like Jesus for example.

 

[Godless]

*Some are aware of themselves.

I'm very aware of myself.

*I just know it. There can be no other "me", no other "God", so everything is just "me".

I just know that there is only one "me" I'm also aware that there is overwhelming evidence against a devine god, every bone, every fiber of my being denies the existence of a being superior than I. To accept a being without knowledge of it's existence is ingnorant, what the word "god" has been used for the damnation of one ideal religious view vs another, no overwhelming good has ever come out of religious rhetoric.

Godless.

 

[duendy]

*Some are aware of themselves.

I'm very aware of myself.

*I just know it. There can be no other "me", no other "God", so everything is just "me".

I just know that there is only one "me" I'm also aware that there is overwhelming evidence against a devine god, every bone, every fiber of my being denies the existence of a being superior than I. To accept a being without knowledge of it's existence is ingnorant, what the word "god" has been used for the damnation of one ideal religious view vs another, no overwhelming good has ever come out of religious rhetoric.

Godless.

so is your "me" meaning all other "mes" including animal awareness, material awareness, the Earth and cosmos?

i am just trying to understand what you mean when you say "me"

 

[(Q)]

Some are aware of themselves.

Those who have the mental facilities to be aware of themselves, I agree. However, being aware of yourself and assuming a god lives within you are two different things.

I just know it.

What do you know? How do you know it? Your statement is empty without some forethought as to how you know what it is you claim to know.

There's no difference between God and a human who has found his true self, like Jesus for example.

Many have found themselves without the illusion of gods. Humans are simply human.

BTW - Jesus was a myth.

 

[mis-t-highs]

(Q),



God allows everybody to die at some time, that day was different because so many people died all at once, in a particular region.

Do you think we can live forever?
People die, that is the harsh reality, nobody will escape it.

Jan Ardena.

jan : it's the callous way he kills, that's the problem.
as you say we all die, but would you rather be drown and smashed to bits slowly, or burnt alive, or fall from a great height, or die in your sleep.

and to allow it, is worse then doing it.
would you stand by, if you could stop someone from stabing someone else, or would you callously watch.

 

[Yorda]

I just know that there is only one "me" I'm also aware that there is overwhelming evidence against a devine god, every bone, every fiber of my being denies the existence of a being superior than I

That's good then. But wouldn't you be afraid if you saw that a tsunami would come to wipe you out? If you were afraid, then you'd not be so superior after all.

However, being aware of yourself and assuming a god lives within you are two different things.

Are you sure? Do you know what the "self" is? Do you think it's a person? Personality is merely a reflection of the body. The self however, is the same as God.

What do you know? How do you know it? Your statement is empty without some forethought as to how you know what it is you claim to know.

There is no explanation for how I know it. Questions like how and why belong to the cyclic world. Answers are illusions. I know what I know because I trust myself. It doesn't matter how true something is if it's not true for yourself.

Many have found themselves without the illusion of gods. Humans are simply human.

What is a human? There are many who call themselves believers, yet they don't hear the voice of God. Then there are those who reject God, but without knowing, they obey him.

BTW - Jesus was a myth.

What is a myth? Don't you think that this civilization would be a myth too, if all things would be destroyed and a new generation of humans would be born? People don't want to accept that all religions are true because they are so proud of themselves.

 

[Jan Ardena]

(Q)

He didn't allow it, he caused it, according to those who believe in gods.

God, I believe, is the original cause of all causes, and therefore the cause of this material manifestation and the workings of nature.
An earthquake is a natural phenomena caused by an abrupt shift of rock along a fracture in the earth, which induces shaking of the ground.
There have been many earthquakes and there will continue to be many, that is natures way.
I get the distinct impression that you blame God, personally, for the deaths of the victims, as though He did it out of spite and hate and completely overlooking nature.
This feeling of yours only serves to illuminate your real belief, which is one of a theist as opposed to atheist.
If you have a problem with God, then that is between you and God, don't look to me to justify your 'atheist' wannabe tendencies.

Why would he do such a thing and why would you continue to worship him?

As I said, earthquakes are a natural phenomenon, as is birth, old-age, disease and death.
Your question; "why would you continue to worship him?" is a foolish question as you have already asigned blame to God for personally having a hand in the killing of those people without any regard to nature. To attempt an answer would be to agree with your emotional outburst, to which, I do not.

People die, that is the harsh reality, nobody will escape it.

You're evading the point. Why do go on worshiping a god who is a mass murderer?

You've made no point for me to evade, you are simply begging the question.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Jan Ardena]

jan : it's the callous way he kills, .

Do you believe God killed those people, outside of the laws of nature?

that's the problem.
as you say we all die, but would you rather be drown and smashed to bits slowly, or burnt alive, or fall from a great height, or die in your sleep

I would rather not die, if i was being honest, but i can understand that death is inevitable, and as i stated previously, death comes to all in one of 3 ways, and as such, it makes no sense to worry about how one will die.

and to allow it, is worse then doing it.
would you stand by, if you could stop someone from stabing someone else, or would you callously watch.

God, allows nature to take its course of action. We tend not to kick up a stink when we have glorious weather, in beautiful surroundings, a healthy bank-balance, and all the trappings of material wealth. Would you say God was allowing that?
Would I stand by and watch somebody being stabbed? It would depend on the situation, and who was being stabbed.
And watching somebody being stabbed, is not necessarily a callous action, callousness is a state of mind.

Jan Ardena.

 

[mis-t-highs]

no I dont believe in a god, but you do.
but if xians believe god sends these natural disaster, then why believe it's a good and loving entity, it's contradictory.

no it does not matter, how you die, but given a choice(free will), as you xians keep telling us you've got.

would you not prefer it, if all was good.
but it's not and to stand by and do nothing, is as cruel and callous, be it a human or your god entity. and it would not depend, on the situation, to right thinking people.

misty

 

[cole grey]

mis-t says "and to allow it, is worse then doing it.
would you stand by, if you could stop someone from stabing someone else, or would you callously watch. "
While that is not true, "allowing" it could be considered a close second. Like Jan said, "it would depend." Although there is never a good reason to murder (yes, even Hitler, although there would be a good reason to stop him from accessing the power to incite people to kill in droves), there are natural reasons why people should die.

I understand that mis-t is using this evil god represented in a lot of stupid "xian" writing and talking as a proof for her unbelief in God, but is it fair to God to incriminate God just because God sometimes associates with dumb-asses who describe "Him" according to their oedipal hopes and fears because they are too closed-minded to just let God remain somewhat undefinable to the puny, 1500 cubic centimeter (on average), human mind.
I sometimes associate with dumb-asses, I even act like one sometimes, but don't think that I can be put in that category, or you will have a hard time making your case. God might feel the same way about the associations people make...

I think, mis-t, that if you dropped some of the false ideas people have about God that you abhor so much (I hate those ideas too), you would lose one of your strong arguments and be forced to face the question of God's existence in a way that was, although more inhabited by grey areas, more honest and less dependent on other people's BS.

 

[Godless]

you would lose one of your strong arguments and be forced to face the question of God's existence in a way that was, although more inhabited by grey areas, more honest and less dependent on other people's BS.

Other people's BULL SHIT!! is what religion and god has always been, the argument of evil is one of many upon this non-existent diety, if the bible be the word of god, then you should know that the book is full of inconsistencies, contradiction, and out right fatasies, like a "snake talking" so is too the Qua'ran, and other anciet religious text full of contradictions.

So the strong argument for the existence of this deity must come from your part, the onus of proof is in your court, not in those that deny an existent, of which you lack any emperical evidence.

Godless.

 

[marv]

Every choice of deity is wrong.

The India Plate slid beneath the Burma Plate displacing a chunk of the sea floor (about 6 or 7 miles wide by almost 100 miles long) and raising it about 40 meters before it settled back down. No gods. Just good old fashioned geology.

My, how arrogant we are to think that WE could destroy the Earth!

 

[cole grey]

to Godless,

Why must you assume I am trying to use an argument to get mis-t to believe in God? I think people have to answer that question themselves.
I was just saying that the argument against God based on the existence of evil only works to discredit the existence of God when God has been described incorrectly.
I would guess there have probably been Hindu scholars who used the existence of evil as proof of the EXISTENCE of God somehow.

Why are you so upset about it? Your post sounded angry. There is a possibility that anger comes from strong emotion because you love the "fact" that God doesn't exist so very much. Or maybe you are reacting to an attack against you, incorrectly perceived as coming from me. Or maybe the anger arises from fear...

 

[cole grey]

Sorry Godless,
maybe you were not angry at all, I just got that impression from the way you seemed to really go after that word "bullshit".
Please ignore that part if I got the wrong impression.

Also, I would disagree that any "proof" of God's existence needs to be made, or can be made for that matter, any time soon.