Where are the moderate Muslims?
- Thread starter otheadp
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P
Proud_Syrian
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ANOTHER QUESTION:
WHY YOU HYPOCRITES DONT ASK EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD TO STAND UP AND CONDEMN THE BRUTAL BARBARIC ATROCITIES THAT THE JEWS ARE COMMITING IN PALESTINE ?????????
WHY YOU HYPOCRITES DONT ASK EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD TO STAND UP AND CONDEMN THE BRUTAL BARBARIC ATROCITIES THAT THE JEWS ARE COMMITING IN PALESTINE ?????????
I have to admit, it's incredibly hard to reduce myself to your level.
Absoletely not....Power be to them, but I'm not the demonstrating type, so excuse me from not attenting. it's a free country and I'm free to abstain from demonstrations.
I'm not the judge of what is Islamic and what is un Islamic? That's what fundamentalists do....they label us into Kafirs, Muslims, believers, ect....I'm not interested in such labeling...whether it's in the name of Islam, reforming Islam, or againest Islam.
I think it is very good to speak againest the misconceptions of Islam such as suicide bombing, Jihad, ect.... Yet, I'm an engineer by education and experience and thus I'm more productive to my society when I stick to building roads, hospitals, environmental enhancemenet projects, ect....It's of no use to the society for me to clutter up the transportation system, waste papers, and litter, in the name of demonstrating. That's mere ignorance. How would you feel if your muslim doctor who needs to operate on a sick child, strikes for Palestine rights and takes off to demonstrate againest suicide bombing???
you keep pointing at other people's houses. why don't you take care of your own problems?
Jews scrutinize themselves about this. there are enough of us who do. there are "Jews against zionizm" and "Neturei Karta" and many others. guys like Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky. all these are VOCAL and ACTIVE on these issues. but all this is IRRELEVANT to this particular thread. i've mentioned this to you twice before, this is the 3rd time.
answer my other questions please.
I think it is very good to speak againest the misconceptions of Islam such as suicide bombing, Jihad, ect....
i'm very happy to hear you say that.
Yet, I'm an engineer by education and experience and thus I'm more productive to my society when I stick to building roads, hospitals, environmental enhancemenet projects, ect....It's of no use to the society for me to clutter up the transportation system, waste papers, and litter, in the name of demonstrating.
aHAH!
"leave it to beaver.."
let someone else take care of it... right?
That's whay fundamentalists do....they label us into Kafirs, Muslims, believers, ect
doesn't that make you angry?
you follow Islam to the best of your abilities, yet there's some guy who tells you you're an infidel for not supporting his views
do you think there should be more... MUCH more demonstrations by Muslims against this sort of bullshit?
i'm very happy to hear you say that.
Yet, I'm an engineer by education and experience and thus I'm more productive to my society when I stick to building roads, hospitals, environmental enhancemenet projects, ect....It's of no use to the society for me to clutter up the transportation system, waste papers, and litter, in the name of demonstrating.
aHAH!
"leave it to beaver.."
let someone else take care of it... right?
That's whay fundamentalists do....they label us into Kafirs, Muslims, believers, ect
doesn't that make you angry?
you follow Islam to the best of your abilities, yet there's some guy who tells you you're an infidel for not supporting his views
do you think there should be more... MUCH more demonstrations by Muslims against this sort of bullshit?
P
Proud_Syrian
Guest
Thanks for pointing the obevious, it is our own problems NOT YOURS.....So, go FIRST and ask your fellow JEWS to stand up and condemn the barbaric terrorist actions of the jewish squatters who stole our land in Palestine...!!
syrian can you stay on topic for once?
there are other threads about how evil zionists are (i don't agree but that's irrelevant, right?) many many.
this thread is about Islam.
So, go FIRST and ask your fellow JEWS to stand up and condemn the barbaric terrorist actions of the jewish squatters who stole our land in Palestine...!!
why?
are you saying that you refuse to check the problems with Islam today until the whole israeli-arab conflict is resolved?
it seems like you're completely ignoring what i wrote..
THERE ARE JEWS who are doing that. (i personally don't agree with them...but there are people like that... ACTIVE and VOCAL)
there are other threads about how evil zionists are (i don't agree but that's irrelevant, right?) many many.
this thread is about Islam.
So, go FIRST and ask your fellow JEWS to stand up and condemn the barbaric terrorist actions of the jewish squatters who stole our land in Palestine...!!
why?
are you saying that you refuse to check the problems with Islam today until the whole israeli-arab conflict is resolved?
it seems like you're completely ignoring what i wrote..
THERE ARE JEWS who are doing that. (i personally don't agree with them...but there are people like that... ACTIVE and VOCAL)
P
Proud_Syrian
Guest
Originally posted by otheadp
So, go FIRST and ask your fellow JEWS to stand up and condemn the barbaric terrorist actions of the jewish squatters who stole our land in Palestine...!!
why?
are you saying that you refuse to check the problems with Islam today until the whole israeli-arab conflict is resolved?
[/B]
I am saying that MOST of this so called Islamic terrorism is related to the BARBARIC CRIMES Israel is commiting against Muslims in Palestine under the patronage of America....
Suicide bombings, terrorism ... ultimately they have nothing to do with religion - any religion. It's conceivable that non-fundamentalist muslims (that's the vast, vast majority) don't consider the perpertrators to be muslim at all. Why then ask that they question their faith?
It's conceivable that non-fundamentalist muslims (that's the vast, vast majority) don't consider the perpertrators to be muslim at all
that's probably the case. but there's not enough noise about it from those non fundamentalists.
as i said, i've never ever even heard of a demonstration of Muslims condemning suicide bombings.
sure, i've read some condemnation statements from Muslim community leaders.... regarding 9/11
but that's rare... and it's only a political dance
what's missing is mass demonstrations.
the avg. citizen has no clue about politics. all he knows that there are fanatics who murder and blow people up in the name of Islam.... and that their cities and countries are full of Muslim immigrants...
if i was that average citizen, i'd be afraid of my Muslim neighbour, of which i know nothing about.
sure i could go and study about Islam (who's going to do that though? especially thoroughly?)... but those Muslims are not telling the world they're anti suicide-bombings.
if some Muslim public figure said something publicly against terrorism, i'd be skeptic at best
but if i saw mass demonstrations (WHICH ARE NOT HAPPENING) i'd not be afraid to send my kids to school with kids of Muslims...
(the "i" here is from the point of view of the avg. citizen)
that's probably the case. but there's not enough noise about it from those non fundamentalists.
as i said, i've never ever even heard of a demonstration of Muslims condemning suicide bombings.
sure, i've read some condemnation statements from Muslim community leaders.... regarding 9/11
but that's rare... and it's only a political dance
what's missing is mass demonstrations.
the avg. citizen has no clue about politics. all he knows that there are fanatics who murder and blow people up in the name of Islam.... and that their cities and countries are full of Muslim immigrants...
if i was that average citizen, i'd be afraid of my Muslim neighbour, of which i know nothing about.
sure i could go and study about Islam (who's going to do that though? especially thoroughly?)... but those Muslims are not telling the world they're anti suicide-bombings.
if some Muslim public figure said something publicly against terrorism, i'd be skeptic at best
but if i saw mass demonstrations (WHICH ARE NOT HAPPENING) i'd not be afraid to send my kids to school with kids of Muslims...
(the "i" here is from the point of view of the avg. citizen)
This type of fear would be a product of ignorance, not the fact that Muslims haven't been demonstrating enough.
Personally, and I think someone's said much the same thing already, I haven't seen many Christians out there rallying against the Baptist Church's support of Christian terrorism in Tripura, say.
Now that I would expect to see, because I think there's a greater chance that something could be achieved, atrocities stopped. On the other hand, I'm not quite sure whyit is that you believe that Osama bin Laden et al would pay any attention to the public displays of disapproval by "westernised" (and particularly American) muslims.
Seems to me that the only purpose that would be served is reassuring the irrational fears of non-muslim Americans. Which again, is best done through education.
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Proud_Syrian
Guest
Why you concentrate on the suicide bombers and not on the brutal israeli policies that produces such suicide bombers ??
There is NO difference between Palestinean suicide martyer using the only mean available to him to deliver the bomb and between an Israeli terrorist pilot wrapping himself with 'American' made fighter jet to deliver the bomb.
This type of fear would be a product of ignorance, not the fact that Muslims haven't been demonstrating enough
ignorance. tha'ts right. people don't know.
why do they not know? because Muslims didn't didn't tell them.
not every guy/girl in the world is bright and conducts debates on sciforums. the avg. ppl are morons. to expect them to just know things is wrong.
I haven't seen many Christians out there rallying against the Baptist Church's support of Christian terrorism in Tripura
i don't think people even know where that is.
there might be Christian terrorism somewhere in the world but
a) it doesn't affect the entire world
b) people are fighting Christian terrorism. Christians are fighting Christian terrorism
king Fahd and crown prince Abdullah of saudi arabia didn't think that terror was their problem. they only decided to speak out once their kingdom was bombed twice ..or was it 3 times.
Seems to me that the only purpose that would be served is reassuring the irrational fears of non-muslim Americans. Which again, is best done through education.
you're right.
whether the fear is irrational, i don't know. i think it's 100% rational. people just don't know. but if someone tells them, hopefully the source... not their teacher... then that fear would disappear. if it won't disappear, THEN it would be irrational.
Why you concentrate on the suicide bombers and not on the brutal israeli policies that produces such suicide bombers ??
and why do you concentrate on Israeli actions (i hope you noticed i'm not arguing on who's right here... i think u know what i'd argue though) instead of palestinian actions?
the question here is not "who's right" or "who causes what"
it is suicide bombings.
syrian, answer my question:
do you think suicide bombings are part of Islam? is it moral, according to Islamic beliefs to do what the suicide bombers are doing, even for the most extreme reasons?
you also said (quote):
---------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by otheadp
i wonder... is it possible to be pro-palestinian but condemn any use of suicide bombings?
Yes it is possible.
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so why not be pro-palestinian AND condemn suicide bombings?
ignorance. tha'ts right. people don't know.
why do they not know? because Muslims didn't didn't tell them.
not every guy/girl in the world is bright and conducts debates on sciforums. the avg. ppl are morons. to expect them to just know things is wrong.
I haven't seen many Christians out there rallying against the Baptist Church's support of Christian terrorism in Tripura
i don't think people even know where that is.
there might be Christian terrorism somewhere in the world but
a) it doesn't affect the entire world
b) people are fighting Christian terrorism. Christians are fighting Christian terrorism
king Fahd and crown prince Abdullah of saudi arabia didn't think that terror was their problem. they only decided to speak out once their kingdom was bombed twice ..or was it 3 times.
Seems to me that the only purpose that would be served is reassuring the irrational fears of non-muslim Americans. Which again, is best done through education.
you're right.
whether the fear is irrational, i don't know. i think it's 100% rational. people just don't know. but if someone tells them, hopefully the source... not their teacher... then that fear would disappear. if it won't disappear, THEN it would be irrational.
Why you concentrate on the suicide bombers and not on the brutal israeli policies that produces such suicide bombers ??
and why do you concentrate on Israeli actions (i hope you noticed i'm not arguing on who's right here... i think u know what i'd argue though) instead of palestinian actions?
the question here is not "who's right" or "who causes what"
it is suicide bombings.
syrian, answer my question:
do you think suicide bombings are part of Islam? is it moral, according to Islamic beliefs to do what the suicide bombers are doing, even for the most extreme reasons?
you also said (quote):
---------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by otheadp
i wonder... is it possible to be pro-palestinian but condemn any use of suicide bombings?
Yes it is possible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so why not be pro-palestinian AND condemn suicide bombings?
P
Proud_Syrian
Guest
syrian, answer my question:
do you think suicide bombings are part of Islam? is it moral, according to Islamic beliefs to do what the suicide bombers are doing, even for the most extreme reasons?
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I answered already many times, IT IS NOT PART OF ISLAM, no where in the noble quran you will find any reference to suicide bombings, it only exits in the bible as I explained in my separate thread.
Now, answer my question:
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PALESTINEAN SUICIDE MARTYER USING THE ONLY MEAN AVAILABLE TO HIM TO DELIVER THE BOMB AND AN ISRAELI PILOT WRAPING HIMSELF WITH 'AMERICAN' FIGHTER JET TO DELIVER THE BOMB ???
do you think suicide bombings are part of Islam? is it moral, according to Islamic beliefs to do what the suicide bombers are doing, even for the most extreme reasons?
===================================
I answered already many times, IT IS NOT PART OF ISLAM, no where in the noble quran you will find any reference to suicide bombings, it only exits in the bible as I explained in my separate thread.
Now, answer my question:
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PALESTINEAN SUICIDE MARTYER USING THE ONLY MEAN AVAILABLE TO HIM TO DELIVER THE BOMB AND AN ISRAELI PILOT WRAPING HIMSELF WITH 'AMERICAN' FIGHTER JET TO DELIVER THE BOMB ???
no where in the noble quran you will find any reference to suicide bombings
but there are many Muslims who quote directly from the Qur'an when they talk about suicide bombings.
and pretty much all those suicide bombers think it's pure Islam.
in fact, if they'd know that you said what you said (that it has nothing to do with Islam) they'd call you a Kafir. what do you think about that.
palestinian suicide bombers too. they're all very religious.
THEY SAY it is part of Islam.
do you think they should stop?
I answered already many times
you haven't answered this:
do you think it's moral for a Muslim to do suicide bombing? does Qur'an forbid something like that?
it's a yes/no question.
if it's against the Qur'an, then do you think the palestinian groups should stop it? (not their "struggle" but only this particular method)
Ghandi achieved his political objectives in India without any violence. that definitely shows that this: PALESTINEAN SUICIDE MARTYER USING THE ONLY MEAN AVAILABLE TO HIM is wrong.
unless the objective is merely to : DELIVER THE BOMB, as you say
only a few days ago the government of Georgia was overthrown without a single life lost. the Georgians called it the "Velvet Revolution"
as you can see, there haven't been any suicide bombings in israel and therefore no jet attacks.
although many suicide bombers have been caught before they could explode
but there are many Muslims who quote directly from the Qur'an when they talk about suicide bombings.
and pretty much all those suicide bombers think it's pure Islam.
in fact, if they'd know that you said what you said (that it has nothing to do with Islam) they'd call you a Kafir. what do you think about that.
palestinian suicide bombers too. they're all very religious.
THEY SAY it is part of Islam.
do you think they should stop?
I answered already many times
you haven't answered this:
do you think it's moral for a Muslim to do suicide bombing? does Qur'an forbid something like that?
it's a yes/no question.
if it's against the Qur'an, then do you think the palestinian groups should stop it? (not their "struggle" but only this particular method)
Ghandi achieved his political objectives in India without any violence. that definitely shows that this: PALESTINEAN SUICIDE MARTYER USING THE ONLY MEAN AVAILABLE TO HIM is wrong.
unless the objective is merely to : DELIVER THE BOMB, as you say
only a few days ago the government of Georgia was overthrown without a single life lost. the Georgians called it the "Velvet Revolution"
as you can see, there haven't been any suicide bombings in israel and therefore no jet attacks.
although many suicide bombers have been caught before they could explode
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otheadp; I disagree with sucide bombings but I don't know what those sucide bombers went through and targeting civilian is wrong for either palestanians or Israelis but a retarded comment by you and vienna about, taliban al-qeda and sucide bombers where he and you tried to paint them as Islam is pretty pathetic. They can be called as muslims or atleast they believe they are muslims but they are not Islam. If you know English, I am sure you know what I am talking about. It is like calling Mcveigh or Hitler or Milosevic 'Christianity' and not 'Christians'.
Originally posted by Markx
otheadp; I disagree with sucide bombings but I don't know what those sucide bombers went through and targeting civilian is wrong for either palestanians or Israelis but a retarded comment by you and vienna about, taliban al-qeda and sucide bombers where he and you tried to paint them as Islam is pretty pathetic. They can be called as muslims or atleast they believe they are muslims but they are not Islam. If you know English, I am sure you know what I am talking about. It is like calling Mcveigh or Hitler or Milosevic 'Christianity' and not 'Christians'.
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M*W: If being Muslim means "total submisison to Allah," I fail to see how Islam can be blamed for 9/11 since the terrorists were in total submission to their god, Osama bin Laden.