What to HATE, What NOT to TOLERATE & Islam.

[Flores]

The hypocrisy perhaps.

Witness to the infidel =/= kill the infidel.

The Quran never said kill the infidels. It only gave right for people to kill in self defense.....God doesn't like those who transgress their limits. I can discuss with you each Sura in detail, but you have to listen with open mind and refrain from judgements until the picture is complete.

Again if you wish to expand on your hatred, I have no time, I was offering DoctorNo a sincere olive branch to discuss if he really wished to learn the truth about Islam. But of course, he is free to decline the peace and we can continue calling each other mother fuckers.

 

[DoctorNO]

For a start, I'll apologize for being a jackass about phillipinos..They are hard working people and you do them a great injustice when you portray yourself as a phillipino and attack other people unjustly...

Hey no problemo.

Are you capable of adjusting your ways slightly? You can actually make your points across if you modify you mood a bit.

I know I behave like an arrogant jerk from time to time. Sorry, I’ll be more sensitive and politically correct. The topics I discuss does cause some people to shoot before asking questions (like the user Maia). And it takes great self-control from shooting back in equal or greater intensity.

Do you have anything objective that you have to say about muslims? Can you find similarity or point of common agreement to launch our discussion on?

Muslims are people too. They have the same needs & makes the same mistakes as everybody else. They dispute their own religion as does everyone else. And the religious among them value their religion more than their lives and personal reputation. It hurts them when someone criticizes their religion.

And im saddened that it does. But there are issues that must be discussed. Some muslims may be openly be against Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and secularism. But I hope they see that there are people like me who is openly against Islam for various reasons. Let tolerance be a two way street.

I love a good discussion but DoctorNO is as human as you guys. I could make mistakes and I could misbehave from time to time.

 

[lostminotaur]

But the Hindus were just retaliating.

you must be kidding me. hindus have acted as fanatically as muslims.

check this out. this is one of many websites explaining one of the worst incidents instigated by hindu extremists.

http://www.geocities.com/indianfascism/Babri/babri_masjid.htm

 

[Flores]

Muslims are people too. They have the same needs & makes the same mistakes as everybody else.

You are correct. We are all humans, and most muslims despite of their poverty are extremely generous and loving. Perhaps you have not taken proactive measure to really get to know good muslims. Stay away from the thugs, stay away from the gangs, and STAY AWAY from mosques. I'm a muslim and I do the same myself. Religion doesn't exist in the walls of the mosque, and it's definetly not locked up with a thug like Bin Laden or a gang like Mujadeheen. Islam exists in people's heart and you should be selective about the hearts that you seek for friendship or revenge. Don't burn all the bridges between you and Islam, you might despretely need to cross on one one of these days.

They dispute their own religion as does everyone else. And the religious among them value their religion more than their lives and personal reputation. It hurts them when someone criticizes their religion.

You are absolutely wrong. It doesn't hurt me that you are criticizing my religion. It hurts me more that you accuse me and paint me with a false brush that I have nothing to do with. That's why muslims don't like your methods of communication. You accuse them of things that they abhor themselves. The worst thing you can do to an innocent man is to sit him in interrogation chair and insist that he admit that he is a killer. He is not a killer and he will scream and shout that he is innocent until he dies....That's what most innocent muslims are currently engaging in.

And im saddened that it does. But there are issues that must be discussed. Some muslims may be openly be against Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and secularism. But I hope they see that there are people like me who is openly against Islam for various reasons. Let tolerance be a two way street.

Your goal is faulty and you will only achieve hate and escalate the existing problem because of it. You have jailed yourself in a DoctorNo box. Your goal shouldn't be to punish those who hate you by hating them back. If you live among theives and you want to teach them a lesson about why we shouldn't steal, would you steal as habit and look like you are proud of it? Of course not. If you are here to really preach tolerance, then act tolerant yourself. It shouldn't matter whether others are hypocrites or thugs, it should only matter that you are not these bad things that you seemingly hate so much.
Socrates have said that "A man who seek to accomplish anything must have a private station and not a public one". Socrates is correct, you must clearn your house first before you venue to clean the dirtiest alley. You must ensure that your house has light first, before you stand 24 x 7 as a street lamp post.

I love a good discussion but DoctorNO is as human as you guys. I could make mistakes and I could misbehave from time to time.

And I appreciate your admitance...I can promise you a great discussion if you stay objective in your criticism. Criticise all you want, but don't be an automatic gun that only knows how to shoot in one direction. Learn the crafty skill of using your bow, get some patience, and establish a precise target. You have very few arrows and they're valuable, so shoot wisely. You don't have to destroy the entire forest to catch a rabbit.

 

[Bells]

Why don’t you quit reveling in the past, dear? This is the 21st century. And Im talking about the present.

So was I.

Your own words, not mine.

Shame you have no understanding of sarcasm.

Nothing in those articles puts the blame on anybody. So why are you still blaming the white Christians for this? Past is past. And for the wrongs of the past the colonizers signed a treaty with the Indians granting them “Indian Special Status”. One of which is tax exemptions….

Ah the tax exemptions. Do you honestly think that it makes that much of a difference? Think about it? Do you understand the notion of discrimination and racism? By being given tax exemptions, they are only at further risk of being discriminated against by a populace that is resentful that they are the only ones getting such tax exemptions. They go for jobs and they are rejected because of their race. They go for housing and they are rejected because of their race. Tax exemptions mean diddly squat. You think it's to aid in their attaining prosperity? It's basically the Government giving with one hand and taking away with the other. Those tax exemptions that you're so proud of only ensure that the indigenous population are further set apart from everyone else. Which only further increases the discrimination. You just don't get it... either that or you refuse to get it.

Indians must fulfil certain conditions in order to acquire property and services without paying GST and QST. They must, among other things, show their certificate of Indian status to vendors as proof of their registration under the Indian Act.

Man... this is getting ridiculous. By having to show their certificate of Indian status, they are then forced to identify their ethnicity to the people they're trying to say for example, rent a house from.. thereby further opening themselves up to discrimination from the realtor. It's just a further distinction or manner of identifying who the indigenous people are. It only leads to further discrimination. Do you understand what I'm saying here? By being placed in a position where they are forced to show their identity, well it's racist and discriminatory. It's the same as the Jews having to wear the star of david on themselves during the nazi era... its only a manner of identifying who they are and what they are. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

I live in Canada, bells. That’s why I know what Im talking about.

And I live in Australia, so that's why I know what I'm talking about. I've studied the Canadian model and while it has it's good points, it also has its bad points.

You are the accuser so the proof of burden is upon your shoulders. Please don’t ask me to look for evidences that you need.

What's the use? I give you articles and you don't want to read them because they're too long, etc. Whatever is given to you, you'll refuse to acknowledge because you don't want to think differently to what you do. You're in a hatred mindset and refuse to see or view anything else that goes against that.

Racist???? Me????? Which race did I actually malign????

Every race of every person who happens to be Muslim.

Hater. I hate Islam. And islam is nothing but a stupid ideology. You however actually expressed hate for fellow human beings, the christians of India. So I guess you are more of a hater than I ever will be.

Nice comment. You express Islam as an entity, but you get riled that I could actually express hate for Christians, whom you view as human beings. Your distinction between the two speaks volumes. You dehumanise Islam and Muslims but humanise Christians who are just as guilty and capable of committing atrocities. I don't hate Christians. I was merely pointing out to you that it is not just Muslims who are accused of atrocities. Christians are just as capable of committing atrocities against humanity. I just don't understand how you can hate the whole for the actions of the few. Why do you blame the whole religion for the actions of a few of its members who are acting outside of their religion and outside of the permission or approval of the majority of that religions followers? I look at the acts committed by followers of Christianity in India and do I blame all Christians for it? No, I blame the individual wielding the weapon. He or she is the twisted idiot who committed the crime... not the whole group who believe in the same God as he or she does.

You view Islam as having a stupid ideology, but you refuse to admit that all religions are guilty of this. Christianity also has similar ideologies, as does Judaism, Hinduism, etc.

Discriminator???? You are the one discriminating against christians by bombarding them with baseless stupid allegations.

Why is it that if I posted a crime committed by a Muslim you'd agree, but I post a crime committed by a Christian and you view it as stupid and baseless? Those weren't allegations, they're fact. You may find it easier to bury your head in the sand and refuse to see the light of day, but most people can and do look objectively at all sides of the spectrum. I wasn't discriminating against Christians or Christianity. I was merely pointing out to you that they too are accused of committing crimes against humanity.

I think you are mad because I am able to repulse anything you throw at me.

You're right about one thing. I do find you repulsive.


You claimed once in another post that you had friends who were Muslims. Well with friends like you, who needs enemies.

 

[DoctorNO]

Are you serious? Oh my God! You surely cannot be serious? They were slaughtered, driven from their lands, forced into reserves, forced to live with below world standards facilities, they've had their children taken from them, they had all their friggin rights taken from them and you actually have the nerve to sit there and say that they're prosperous because they have special scholarships, tax exemptions and land reserves? Oh man I don't know if you're being antagonistic or just plain stupid. Have you ever visited one of those reserves? Ever seen the conditions they have to live in? Do you even know any Native American or any Native history of any country around the world? Do you live with your head in the clouds seeing only butterflies and daisies or something? Because from that statement above you OBVIOUSLY have no concept of reality.

Why don’t you quit reveling in the past, dear? This is the 21st century. And Im talking about the present.

So was I.

Bells, your read above. You were talking about slaughter, being driven from lands, the taking away of children. You even admitted referring to Native History. You were talking of the past, not of the present.

My dear, you really have a problem with CONSISTENCY.

 

[Bells]

You were talking about slaughter, being driven from lands, the taking away of children. You even admitted referring to Native History. You were talking of the past, not of the present.

The slaughter, yes I meant historically. But the rest of it, I meant for the present. The taking away of their children... look at the amount of indigenous children who are in the social welfare system as foster children and also in the criminal justice system for petty crimes that most children only get a warning for. Driven from their lands.. i meant the native title cases here in Australia.. I apologise for not making that clear. Living in and with sub-standard facilities is very much a problem of the present. The discrimination that they faced historically repeats itself... with each different generation facing a different form of the same discrimination... it's a cycle.. a vicious cycle..

 

[DoctorNO]

The slaughter, yes I meant historically. But the rest of it, I meant for the present. The taking away of their children... look at the amount of indigenous children who are in the social welfare system as foster children and also in the criminal justice system for petty crimes that most children only get a warning for. Driven from their lands.. i meant the native title cases here in Australia.. I apologise for not making that clear. Living in and with sub-standard facilities is very much a problem of the present. The discrimination that they faced historically repeats itself... with each different generation facing a different form of the same discrimination... it's a cycle.. a vicious cycle..

Oh bells where on earth did you get the idea that indigenous children in welfare were forcible taken away from their parents? Unless those parents were abusive. And the law has specific guidelines on what classifies as child abuse.

And you did not give any evidences that history is repeating itself, at least on land grabbing issues. How can I take your claims seriously if I haven’t even heard them on the news?

And yes there are still discrimination. No doubt about that.

Shame you have no understanding of sarcasm.

oops sorry.

Ah the tax exemptions. Do you honestly think that it makes that much of a difference? Think about it? Do you understand the notion of discrimination and racism? By being given tax exemptions, they are only at further risk of being discriminated against by a populace that is resentful that they are the only ones getting such tax exemptions.

It's basically the Government giving with one hand and taking away with the other. Those tax exemptions that you're so proud of only ensure that the indigenous population are further set apart from everyone else. Which only further increases the discrimination. You just don't get it... either that or you refuse to get it.

They aren’t complaining about that so why should you? In fact they complained when an old Canadian Prime Minister suggested ending the special status.

Who doesn’t get it? You or me? You are the only person complaining, bells. And you aren’t even a native Indian, or are you?

They go for jobs and they are rejected because of their race. They go for housing and they are rejected because of their race.

You are the only one saying that. Rejected for being a native Indian? Ridiculous. If ever there is one it would only be an isolated case.

You think it's to aid in their attaining prosperity?

No it was to make up for past atrocities. And the Indians agreed to that treaty. So past is past. Indians and everybody else are now living in mutual respect & honor. We now have a future to live for. Not a past to die for.

Man... this is getting ridiculous. By having to show their certificate of Indian status, they are then forced to identify their ethnicity to the people they're trying to say for example, rent a house from.. thereby further opening themselves up to discrimination from the realtor.

Of course bells. A form of ID is always required else any Indian looking person could claim to be an Indian and get away with tax evasion.

Again you you are the only one complaining, bells. I find that particularly ridiculous.


To be continued…

 

[DoctorNO]

And I live in Australia, so that's why I know what I'm talking about. I've studied the Canadian model and while it has it's good points, it also has its bad points.

No you have already proven that you dont understand everything you have discussed about Australia. You did not understand that there are different types of "aboriginal". Tough luck, bells.

What's the use? I give you articles and you don't want to read them because they're too long, etc.

Dont send me into a wild goose chase. My friend all you need to do is post here the higlights of the articles that you think supports your assertions. Is that so hard to do? Or perhaps you are not really sure and wanted to bury me in reading assignments.

Whatever is given to you, you'll refuse to acknowledge because you don't want to think differently to what you do. You're in a hatred mindset and refuse to see or view anything else that goes against that.

My friend believe it or not I have the reputation of being open minded on other forums. Even here I agreed with flores to behave more gently even though I never called anyone with names. And look at my reply here

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=34853&page=2

Every race of every person who happens to be Muslim.

Obviously you dont know what racism is. I did not even malign a signle Muslim. I was only against their religion. And there is a muslim in almost every race, even filipinos. How on earth would I be racist to my own race?

Bells, please try to think more. PLEEEEAAASE!

I gotta go.

 

[miss khan]

Sorry to dissappoint you but I dont hate muslims. I only hate Islam.

You're confused. You hate fanatical Muslims, but most everybody hates fanatics of any religion.
And it is a contradiction to say that you do not hate Muslims, but you hate Islam because Muslims are the practitioners of the ideology that you hate. If anything, then you hate Muslims MORE than you hate Islam because they accept for truth what you despise. Just admit that you are a Muslim-hater. the first step in solving a problem is to admit that you have one.

 

[Vienna]

You're confused. You hate fanatical Muslims, but most everybody hates fanatics of any religion.
And it is a contradiction to say that you do not hate Muslims, but you hate Islam because Muslims are the practitioners of the ideology that you hate. If anything, then you hate Muslims MORE than you hate Islam because they accept for truth what you despise. Just admit that you are a Muslim-hater. the first step in solving a problem is to admit that you have one.

There is only one problem today and that is Islam.

Fanatical - You mention the word fanatical. Islam is fanatical. Muslims are fanatical excitable people.

I hate Islam, I hate Islamic countries, I hate Islamic terrorists. I have no time for muslims in general, I find them an unlikeable group of people.

I find their views alien, as though they have just stepped into the 21st century having spent their life in the 7th century. If you try to discuss anything which they disagree with, they go on the defence and become hostile. There is no half measures with them, no consideration whether they could be ever wrong in anything they do, it is always someone elses fault.

I live in the UK in an area where there are lots of muslim asians, plenty of mosques, plenty of Islamic influences. I have been to Saudi Arabia not long ago, horrible place. And I tell you now, there will never be world peace while Islam exists as it does today.

 

[Flores]

First you say

I hate Islam, I hate Islamic countries, I hate Islamic terrorists. I have no time for muslims in general, I find them an unlikeable group of people.

Then you say

There is no half measures with them,

Can you please explain to me how a civilized person could find a half measure to deal with your outright uncivilized hatred toward them...Can you show me this half measure please.

 

[Vienna]

First you say





Then you say



Can you please explain to me how a civilized person could find a half measure to deal with your outright uncivilized hatred toward them...Can you show me this half measure please.

Put your glasses on - or learn to read lady.

I said that I have no time for muslims - and that includes you.

 

[DoctorNO]

Nice comment. You express Islam as an entity, but you get riled that I could actually express hate for Christians, whom you view as human beings.
[/list]
Hello Bells, look at what I told Flores right before you made that comment…
“ Muslims are people too. They have the same needs & makes the same mistakes as everybody else. They dispute their own religion as does everyone else.”
[/list]
You see I vew both Muslims and Christians as human beings. My only point is that you are a much more hater than I am. For I only hate an ideology, you hate people.

You dehumanise Islam and Muslims but humanise Christians who are just as guilty and capable of committing atrocities.

My friend, Islam is not even human to begin with. And can you even name one sentence from DoctorNO which dehumanizes muslims?

I don't hate Christians. I was merely pointing out to you that it is not just Muslims who are accused of atrocities.

Then why did you scream “I hate them all!” right after mentioning Jehovah’s Witnesses & Indian Christians?

You don’t even need to point out that Christians too have committed atrocities in the past. Because I say the same thing. Look at my newest thread entitled “Comparative Violence”. Bells please don’t get too emotional, im not your enemy. This is just a discussion.

I just don't understand how you can hate the whole for the actions of the few.

I hate Islam for the barbaric conditions of Islamic states, for promoting aggression as evident in terroristic activities all around the planet, for indirectly justifying hatred & racism for Jews & Hindus.

Why do you blame the whole religion for the actions of a few of its members who are acting outside of their religion and outside of the permission or approval of the majority of that religions followers?

* Is it just a few people who force women to wear the hijab & burqa?
* Is it just a few people who threatens muslims apostates with death, exile or disownment?
* Is it just a few people who bashes jews?
* Is it just a few people who commit terrorism that can be seen in Russia, China, Philippines, North Africa, Spain, U.S., & middle east? Is it just a few people who support them? Or perhaps its really just a few muslims who condemn them?

I can go on and on bells. Those things are unparalleled even if you combine every other people in the planet.

Even the muslimah Irshad Manji admits that Islam is the only religion where fundamentalism is extreme.

You view Islam as having a stupid ideology, but you refuse to admit that all religions are guilty of this. Christianity also has similar ideologies, as does Judaism, Hinduism, etc.

I only go after the deadliest fish, bells. The world would be a much peaceful place if there are few adherents of Islam.

Why is it that if I posted a crime committed by a Muslim you'd agree, but I post a crime committed by a Christian and you view it as stupid and baseless?

Bells, don’t you remember your many allegations that I refuted? Like the owning of women, the hatred of missionaries, etc.? Those are what I was referring to.

You're right about one thing. I do find you repulsive.

I find you quite cute. And Im still very fond of you. Im sure these things are all just misunderstandings.

You claimed once in another post that you had friends who were Muslims. Well with friends like you, who needs enemies.

And wait till you meet me in person.

 

[Bells]

DoctorNO

I only go after the deadliest fish, bells. The world would be a much peaceful place if there are few adherents of Islam.

No the world would be more peaceful if there were less attitudes such as yours... you know, the fanatical attitude of hatred towards others.. the obsession of hating other religions... the wanting to destroy other religions or religious beliefs. You're like the Christian missionaries who go forth and plunder and destroy...

Bells, don’t you remember your many allegations that I refuted? Like the owning of women, the hatred of missionaries, etc.? Those are what I was referring to.

You refuted? You're sounding like PM. And no you haven't refuted anything. You forget that the Bible also talks about the husband owning the wife. As for the hatred of missionaries.. hell even I hate them.. my own mother can't stand them and she's a strict Catholic... you should see her bolt and close the doors when she sees the Jehovah's Witnesses walking down the street or when she sees other Christians door knocking... it's quite amusing.. Everyone hates missionaries. They destroy native cultures and native religions. You've refuted nothing.

I find you quite cute. And Im still very fond of you. Im sure these things are all just misunderstandings.

Grrrrrrrr... I'm a horned hefer with claws for toenails and my last tooth fell out... hardly cute. Now stop being patronising and acting as though you're patting me on the head and giving me a lolly like I'm a small child...

And wait till you meet me in person.

Sheesh that sounds like a warning. Only in your worst nightmare doccy dear..

 

[DoctorNO]

Grrrrrrrr... I'm a horned hefer with claws for toenails and my last tooth fell out... hardly cute. Now stop being patronising and acting as though you're patting me on the head and giving me a lolly like I'm a small child...

HEY HEY NONE OF THOSE WERE IN A SENSUAL KIND OF WAY!!! I only liked you as a friend because you used to be so nice!

Your expressions ARE cute.

 

[DoctorNO]

Sheesh that sounds like a warning. Only in your worst nightmare doccy dear..

What no forum EBs in the near future? Well maybe thats a good idea. You, flores, PM & tiassa might gang up on poor DoctorNO. Afterall I didnt want to use my KUNG FU on my favorite online debate opponents.

 

[Flores]

Put your glasses on - or learn to read lady..

I save my glasses to the times when I play Chopin and Remski Korsakova every night....Reading you on the other hand doesn't require any glasses, only a glass of Soda and some nuts....as I find you very entertaining in a freak showy way.

I said that I have no time for muslims - and that includes you.

So why do you spend ALL your freakin time discussing Islam? All the threads that have been started by you are related to islam....So you obviously have plenty of time and desire to talk about Islam and to involve muslims.....are you capable of talking about anything else.

http://www.sciforums.com/search.php?searchid=60898

If you try to discuss anything which they disagree with, they go on the defence and become hostile

Which one is it? Is it that you have no time for them, or that you are trying hard to discuss with them futily?

You're such a loser

 

[Bells]

HEY HEY NONE OF THOSE WERE IN A SENSUAL KIND OF WAY!!! I only liked you as a friend because you used to be so nice!

You have really got to get a radar that detects sarcasm.. lol

You, flores, PM & tiassa might gang up on poor DoctorNO. Afterall I didnt want to use my KUNG FU on my favorite online debate opponents.

Calm yourself. If this forum were ever unfortunate enough to have me at a get together... well you wouldn't be first on my 'to wring neck' list.

 

[miss khan]

"If you try to discuss anything which hE disagreeS with, He goES on the defence and becomeS hostile. There is no half measures with hIM, no consideration whether hE could be ever wrong in anything hE doEs, it is always someone elses fault."

That sounds like the perfect description of a hateful someone named Vienna.