f|_|cking holy rollers
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what is religious experience?
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f|_|cking holy rollers
heflores,
Your argument to me, appears a pseudological extension.
Common sense is what you derive out of your 5 senses. So if you make a conclusion based on it, you must either see, hear, smell, feel or taste something- a soul in this case. Imagine for a moment, no body on the earth had the sense of smell. Would you have ever imagined that there could be something called smell in that case? What if 100 types of senses exist at the moment and you just knew 5? Bats produce ultrasonics and also perceive them, meaning a bat's common sense is very different.
My point is that human common sense is limited in its ability to understand nature and creation. Why do you experience a strange feeling by some scents, or get lost when you hear some sounds? Does your common sense explain this? Thus we are in no position to rule out a soul just because your logic does not support it. And most scientific research and proof begins from observation of the end result, working backwards. So you cannot deny the possibility just because you do not have proof yet!
In any case, we are talking something beyond the 5 senses.
And your argument would have a lesser weight than somebody who claims he has it.
Second, religious experience can rarely be expressed in language- and that is my experience. And didn't I see somebody mentioning how the difference in tastes of coffee and tea is not expressible?
Greets.
Your argument to me, appears a pseudological extension.
Common sense is what you derive out of your 5 senses. So if you make a conclusion based on it, you must either see, hear, smell, feel or taste something- a soul in this case. Imagine for a moment, no body on the earth had the sense of smell. Would you have ever imagined that there could be something called smell in that case? What if 100 types of senses exist at the moment and you just knew 5? Bats produce ultrasonics and also perceive them, meaning a bat's common sense is very different.
My point is that human common sense is limited in its ability to understand nature and creation. Why do you experience a strange feeling by some scents, or get lost when you hear some sounds? Does your common sense explain this? Thus we are in no position to rule out a soul just because your logic does not support it. And most scientific research and proof begins from observation of the end result, working backwards. So you cannot deny the possibility just because you do not have proof yet!
In any case, we are talking something beyond the 5 senses.
Sure you can say you are not aware of something you haven't had. But you cannot deny its existence because you didn't have it!
And your argument would have a lesser weight than somebody who claims he has it.
I don't know. But even if you have spent long years hanging around in religious circles, it does not guarantee you a religious experience. Which means that your long years no way make your argument authoritative.
Second, religious experience can rarely be expressed in language- and that is my experience. And didn't I see somebody mentioning how the difference in tastes of coffee and tea is not expressible?
Greets.
Snakelord--You said : in (Bold)
Moses original name was Sargon.
Moses was a Hebrew....and a prophet, born a special child, and a Hebrew named Aaron was his brother, there are plenty of records .
The Moses featured in the bible was just a badly translated version of the original story made by the sumerians.
Sumerian legends are fiction, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh..
Any similarity with the Bible only proves the Bible's authinticity.
It has been adapted to monotheistic belief throughout the ages, aswell as the rest of the bible.
You wish, snakeboy........try geting out in the light once in a while, you might get a glimpse of reality.
The Bible is 66 books was writen by 40 different authors, over a period of 2000 years, and each scripture fits with the others tighter the the stones in the Great Pyramid, that's God.
Get a clue, a don't make yourself look foolish trying to talk about something you don't know anything about.....
The sumerians spoke of Gods, (plural), not God. That casts genuine doubt on what you're saying.
Again, you don't even know what the Bible says, and your trying to run it down...l..(I'm not wasting my time on you....this is for the others that have been reading your babeling nonsense).
Jesus said You called them god's(plural) whom the Word of God came to, and they were.
He's talking about the Sons of God - the Prophets, i.e. the children of God. He calls them gods....Not The God
There's only one True God, but His children then and today are amature gods........That's were the legends came from.....
The bible was written a good 1,500 years after the Legend of Sargon, so you must expect great translation errors and an extreme amount of 'chinese whispers'.
Boy, 2000+ 1500=3500 B.C., thats about a thousands years BEFORE the flood...There was no Sumerian culture then...
Do you hear these voices or "whispers" in your head?......often?
Because somebody's been whispering lies to you ......
Moses original name was Sargon.
Moses was a Hebrew....and a prophet, born a special child, and a Hebrew named Aaron was his brother, there are plenty of records .
The Moses featured in the bible was just a badly translated version of the original story made by the sumerians.
Sumerian legends are fiction, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh..
Any similarity with the Bible only proves the Bible's authinticity.
It has been adapted to monotheistic belief throughout the ages, aswell as the rest of the bible.
You wish, snakeboy........try geting out in the light once in a while, you might get a glimpse of reality.
The Bible is 66 books was writen by 40 different authors, over a period of 2000 years, and each scripture fits with the others tighter the the stones in the Great Pyramid, that's God.
Get a clue, a don't make yourself look foolish trying to talk about something you don't know anything about.....
The sumerians spoke of Gods, (plural), not God. That casts genuine doubt on what you're saying.
Again, you don't even know what the Bible says, and your trying to run it down...l..(I'm not wasting my time on you....this is for the others that have been reading your babeling nonsense).
Jesus said You called them god's(plural) whom the Word of God came to, and they were.
He's talking about the Sons of God - the Prophets, i.e. the children of God. He calls them gods....Not The God
There's only one True God, but His children then and today are amature gods........That's were the legends came from.....
The bible was written a good 1,500 years after the Legend of Sargon, so you must expect great translation errors and an extreme amount of 'chinese whispers'.
Boy, 2000+ 1500=3500 B.C., thats about a thousands years BEFORE the flood...There was no Sumerian culture then...
Do you hear these voices or "whispers" in your head?......often?
Because somebody's been whispering lies to you ......
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From the Legend of Sargon: "... My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river, which rose not (over) me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his e[w]er. Akki the drawer of water, [took me] as his son (and) reared me." Sargon was appointed as gardener, granted love by Ishtar, and exercised kingship over the people. (Sargon dated to 2,279 - 2,334 BCE)
Exodus 2:3, "... The woman conceived and gave birth to a son. She saw that he was good and she hid him for three months. She could not hide him any longer, so she took for him a wicker basket and smeared it with clay and pitch, she placed the child into it and placed it among the reeds at the bank of the river." Then Pharaoh's daughter saw the basket among the reeds. Later on the Bible says (Exodus 2:10), the boy grew up and she brought him to the daughter of Pharaoh and he was a son to her. She called his name Moses, as she said, " For I drew him from the water." (Moses dated to 1,250 - 1,350 BCE)
Striking resemblence dont you think? So much of Sumerian belief and writings were passed down through the ages- It is quite common knowledge that so much of what you read in your bible stems from Sumerians. You can continue on your path of narrow mindedness all you like. For the sake of continued learning we must look into new evidence and new possibilities. You have, for whatever reason found your belief and as a consequence have closed your eyes to any other possible truths. The above is just a portion of the Legend of Sargon- before making comment on this i suggest you go read it in full.
What a boldly naive statement to make. Tell me Sumerian texts you've read plz. As for your second sentence... No it doesn't. Like any story passed down from generation to generation we must take in to account the massive case of 'chinese whispers' that will occur. To find the most authentic we must look at the original. That doesn't mean it is fact but then if the original isn't neither are any of the translated copies done at a later date. As such we must ask ourselves: If the original works are mere stories then so is a large chunk, and possibly the entirety, of the bible. If there's any truth to those stories then looking at the original works is the only way to proceed.
Ah i see.... this is the part where you come up with a high quality debate...?
Again the pathetic, and frankly rather childish, attempt at insults. If that's your way at making worthwhile debates go right ahead. All i would suggest is that you read more than just your bible. When you realise how much was translated from older texts you might see things in a different light.
Some genuine debate mixed in with petty insult. Getting better though i guess. I was actually referring to Elohim. It's plural- meaning (Gods). If you're unsure of what im talking about kindly ask first before accusing me of 'babeling', (babbling?), nonsense.
Flood? Oh you mean Noah.. Well actually there's proof of a flood around 2,900 BC starting at the Euphrates river. And yes there was Sumerian culture then- go do some studying. For more on the original Noah, (Ziusudra), go here: http://www.flood-myth.com/
Around 4,500 BC there were people living in mesopotamia that archaeologists call Ubaidians. At around 3,800 the Ubaidians were supplanted by the sumerians. Ok i'm sure there's margin for error- (science isn't an exact ummmm science
), but the dates are pretty accurate. Several cities rose eventually including Ur, (where Abraham/Abram in the bible was from).
As a point of interest they found this on an archaelogical dig at a royal tomb in Ur:
Genesis 22:13, it says "And Abraham raised his eyes and saw -- behold, a ram! -- afterwards, caught in the thicket by its horns; so Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as an offering instead of his son."
Yet more worthwhile debate from you. You obviously haven't the time to research or spend a day away from your extreme short sighted narrow mindedness. Instead everyone's wrong but you. If they don't agree with you, you resort to cheap and petty insults. That's all fine and good, but can you ever expect to be taken seriously with such bad attitude?
That piece is on display in a museum in Philadelphia.
Exodus 2:3, "... The woman conceived and gave birth to a son. She saw that he was good and she hid him for three months. She could not hide him any longer, so she took for him a wicker basket and smeared it with clay and pitch, she placed the child into it and placed it among the reeds at the bank of the river." Then Pharaoh's daughter saw the basket among the reeds. Later on the Bible says (Exodus 2:10), the boy grew up and she brought him to the daughter of Pharaoh and he was a son to her. She called his name Moses, as she said, " For I drew him from the water." (Moses dated to 1,250 - 1,350 BCE)
Striking resemblence dont you think? So much of Sumerian belief and writings were passed down through the ages- It is quite common knowledge that so much of what you read in your bible stems from Sumerians. You can continue on your path of narrow mindedness all you like. For the sake of continued learning we must look into new evidence and new possibilities. You have, for whatever reason found your belief and as a consequence have closed your eyes to any other possible truths. The above is just a portion of the Legend of Sargon- before making comment on this i suggest you go read it in full.
What a boldly naive statement to make. Tell me Sumerian texts you've read plz. As for your second sentence... No it doesn't. Like any story passed down from generation to generation we must take in to account the massive case of 'chinese whispers' that will occur. To find the most authentic we must look at the original. That doesn't mean it is fact but then if the original isn't neither are any of the translated copies done at a later date. As such we must ask ourselves: If the original works are mere stories then so is a large chunk, and possibly the entirety, of the bible. If there's any truth to those stories then looking at the original works is the only way to proceed.
Ah i see.... this is the part where you come up with a high quality debate...?
Again the pathetic, and frankly rather childish, attempt at insults. If that's your way at making worthwhile debates go right ahead. All i would suggest is that you read more than just your bible. When you realise how much was translated from older texts you might see things in a different light.
Some genuine debate mixed in with petty insult. Getting better though i guess. I was actually referring to Elohim. It's plural- meaning (Gods). If you're unsure of what im talking about kindly ask first before accusing me of 'babeling', (babbling?), nonsense.
Flood? Oh you mean Noah.. Well actually there's proof of a flood around 2,900 BC starting at the Euphrates river. And yes there was Sumerian culture then- go do some studying. For more on the original Noah, (Ziusudra), go here: http://www.flood-myth.com/
Around 4,500 BC there were people living in mesopotamia that archaeologists call Ubaidians. At around 3,800 the Ubaidians were supplanted by the sumerians. Ok i'm sure there's margin for error- (science isn't an exact ummmm science
), but the dates are pretty accurate. Several cities rose eventually including Ur, (where Abraham/Abram in the bible was from). As a point of interest they found this on an archaelogical dig at a royal tomb in Ur:
Genesis 22:13, it says "And Abraham raised his eyes and saw -- behold, a ram! -- afterwards, caught in the thicket by its horns; so Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as an offering instead of his son."
Yet more worthwhile debate from you. You obviously haven't the time to research or spend a day away from your extreme short sighted narrow mindedness. Instead everyone's wrong but you. If they don't agree with you, you resort to cheap and petty insults. That's all fine and good, but can you ever expect to be taken seriously with such bad attitude?
That piece is on display in a museum in Philadelphia.
Re: Snakelord--You said : in (Bold)
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Moses was a Hebrew....and a prophet, born a special child, and a Hebrew named Aaron was his brother, there are plenty of records .
Did ou miss the part where he mentioned the basis of the story?
Sumerian legends are fiction, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh..
Any similarity with the Bible only proves the Bible's authinticity.
So if it agrees with you they are telling the truth, otherwise they are lying... pretty convinent
The Bible is 66 books was writen by 40 different authors, over a period of 2000 years, and each scripture fits with the others tighter the the stones in the Great Pyramid, that's God.
Get a clue, a don't make yourself look foolish trying to talk about something you don't know anything about.....
Did you even read the comment you were responding to? Saying the Bible was written by 40 people over 2000 years in no way harms his opinion that most of the content was taken from ealier sources.
this is for the others that have been reading your babeling nonsense
Ummmm.... I'm not even going to touch that, because most people know the response they'd give to you
There's only one True God, but His children then and today are amature gods........That's were the legends came from.....
By quoting the Bible you do not harm his argument. He seems to fully agrees that the Bible says there is only 1 god. Yet then you add the 'amature gods' which does nothing to support your view.
Boy, 2000+ 1500=3500 B.C., thats about a thousands years BEFORE the flood...There was no Sumerian culture then...
There are debates on the specific dates even within Bible conservatives, but they place the flood between 2500-2300BC. Sargon of Akkad (who the legend is based on) was an ancient Mesopotamian ruler who reigned approximately 2334-2279 BC. The writting of the Bible is believed to have begun about 1500BC when Genesis was wrote. Every other Book was written after that.
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Moses was a Hebrew....and a prophet, born a special child, and a Hebrew named Aaron was his brother, there are plenty of records .
Did ou miss the part where he mentioned the basis of the story?
Sumerian legends are fiction, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh..
Any similarity with the Bible only proves the Bible's authinticity.
So if it agrees with you they are telling the truth, otherwise they are lying... pretty convinent
The Bible is 66 books was writen by 40 different authors, over a period of 2000 years, and each scripture fits with the others tighter the the stones in the Great Pyramid, that's God.
Get a clue, a don't make yourself look foolish trying to talk about something you don't know anything about.....
Did you even read the comment you were responding to? Saying the Bible was written by 40 people over 2000 years in no way harms his opinion that most of the content was taken from ealier sources.
this is for the others that have been reading your babeling nonsense
Ummmm.... I'm not even going to touch that, because most people know the response they'd give to you
There's only one True God, but His children then and today are amature gods........That's were the legends came from.....
By quoting the Bible you do not harm his argument. He seems to fully agrees that the Bible says there is only 1 god. Yet then you add the 'amature gods' which does nothing to support your view.
Boy, 2000+ 1500=3500 B.C., thats about a thousands years BEFORE the flood...There was no Sumerian culture then...
There are debates on the specific dates even within Bible conservatives, but they place the flood between 2500-2300BC. Sargon of Akkad (who the legend is based on) was an ancient Mesopotamian ruler who reigned approximately 2334-2279 BC. The writting of the Bible is believed to have begun about 1500BC when Genesis was wrote. Every other Book was written after that.
I'm not argueing the exact dates.
The flood was aprox. 2500 B.C.
1500 years before that was Eden..4000 B.C.
Sumeria did not exist before the flood of 2500 B.C>
Mose was Given the First 5 books, not passed down, but given through prophetic reveation about 1800 B.C.
Snakelord said the stories from Sumer pre-dated this 1500 years ...
Do the math, thats before the anti-deluvian destruction.
you (persol) say it comes from Sargon 2300 B.C.
That would be a possible date, but right after the flood.
Such as Gilgamesh was only several generations down from the flood and considered himself 2/3 god and 1/3 man.
No wonder because Elohim was God, and His children ARE the plural attributes referred to in the bible.
These Sons of God before the flood with 900+ year lifespans , prophetic gifts.....Think of the things Elijah and Moses did, and
they mixed with the Sons of Men, serpent seed...The race of Mixed ones before the flood are referred to as:
"Mighty men, men of old...men of renoun"
There's were your legends of gods no doubt originated.
Even after the flood, lifespans only slowly decreased....Abraham's father Terah lived to be 205.
The flood was aprox. 2500 B.C.
1500 years before that was Eden..4000 B.C.
Sumeria did not exist before the flood of 2500 B.C>
Mose was Given the First 5 books, not passed down, but given through prophetic reveation about 1800 B.C.
Snakelord said the stories from Sumer pre-dated this 1500 years ...
Do the math, thats before the anti-deluvian destruction.
you (persol) say it comes from Sargon 2300 B.C.
That would be a possible date, but right after the flood.
Such as Gilgamesh was only several generations down from the flood and considered himself 2/3 god and 1/3 man.
No wonder because Elohim was God, and His children ARE the plural attributes referred to in the bible.
These Sons of God before the flood with 900+ year lifespans , prophetic gifts.....Think of the things Elijah and Moses did, and
they mixed with the Sons of Men, serpent seed...The race of Mixed ones before the flood are referred to as:
"Mighty men, men of old...men of renoun"
There's were your legends of gods no doubt originated.
Even after the flood, lifespans only slowly decreased....Abraham's father Terah lived to be 205.
Originally posted by TheVisitor
I'm not argueing the exact dates.
Well th rest of your post does argue dates....
The flood was aprox. 2500 B.C.
Archeologist put it at 2900BC, biblical scholars put it as late as 2300BC
1500 years before that was Eden..4000 B.C.
Jus as a side note, there are civilizations this old
Sumeria did not exist before the flood of 2500 B.C
The Sumerian cities were flooded, and the existance of the silt etc in these cities has been used by scholars as proof of the flood.
Mose was Given the First 5 books, not passed down, but given through prophetic reveation about 1800 B.C.
People who have dated the books disagree and place the earliest around 1500BC
I'm not argueing the exact dates.
Well th rest of your post does argue dates....
The flood was aprox. 2500 B.C.
Archeologist put it at 2900BC, biblical scholars put it as late as 2300BC
1500 years before that was Eden..4000 B.C.
Jus as a side note, there are civilizations this old
Sumeria did not exist before the flood of 2500 B.C
The Sumerian cities were flooded, and the existance of the silt etc in these cities has been used by scholars as proof of the flood.
Mose was Given the First 5 books, not passed down, but given through prophetic reveation about 1800 B.C.
People who have dated the books disagree and place the earliest around 1500BC
I hate to be the one to say it Visitor but you've completely missed each and every comment made. Whether that's through choice or simple misunderstanding is somewhat unknown, but it's painfully obvious this discussion can go nowhere if you don't understand what it's about, or indeed pay any notice to it.
Lol..
Lol..
Early village settlements, Samarra culture, Halaf culture, Ubaid culture, Gawra culture, (about 4,000 - 8,000 B.C.E.)
Uruk culture (3,000 - 4,000 BCE), late prehistoric period (2,750 - 3,300 BCE), Early Dynastic II - II periods (2,334 - 2,750 BCE)
Akkadian Dynasty (2,154 - 2,334 BCE) including Sargon (2,279 - 2,334 BCE)
Rulers of Lagash & Uruk, Third Dynasty of Ur, First Dynasty of Isin, Larsa Dynasty (1,763 - 2,155 BCE)
First Dynasty of Babylon (1,595 - 1,894 BCE)
Uruk culture (3,000 - 4,000 BCE), late prehistoric period (2,750 - 3,300 BCE), Early Dynastic II - II periods (2,334 - 2,750 BCE)
Akkadian Dynasty (2,154 - 2,334 BCE) including Sargon (2,279 - 2,334 BCE)
Rulers of Lagash & Uruk, Third Dynasty of Ur, First Dynasty of Isin, Larsa Dynasty (1,763 - 2,155 BCE)
First Dynasty of Babylon (1,595 - 1,894 BCE)
Dates come from "Mesopotamia" by Julian Reade, a publication of the British Museum and "Atlas of the Bible," edited by James Pritchard, published Harper Collins
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And the're the experts why...?.you forgot to mention that part.
Carbon dating has been proved inaccurate.
8000 B.C. would be 4000 years before Adam...............
Not saying there couldn't have been a civilization then, before the Bible starts with The whole face of the earth was covered with water, see it starts with a flooded condition in Genesis, but I won't speculate what was before that....
Just that there were no continuous civilizations from 4000 B.C that continued un-interupted through till after the flood at 23-2500 B.C.
That I would dispute.
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And the're the experts why...?.you forgot to mention that part.
Carbon dating has been proved inaccurate.
8000 B.C. would be 4000 years before Adam...............
Not saying there couldn't have been a civilization then, before the Bible starts with The whole face of the earth was covered with water, see it starts with a flooded condition in Genesis, but I won't speculate what was before that....
Just that there were no continuous civilizations from 4000 B.C that continued un-interupted through till after the flood at 23-2500 B.C.
That I would dispute.
Besides Mesopotamia is current day Iraq, ...right
So...unless they were a lot better at telling the truth than they are now, ......I wouldn't believe a single word they said.
LOL
So...unless they were a lot better at telling the truth than they are now, ......I wouldn't believe a single word they said.
LOL
Read the book and you'd find out. Although science is not neccesarily 100% perfect it is pretty accurate. However you can check any book or website about Sumerian history and you'll see the dates will be way before the 2,500 you suggest. Basically every scientist and historian who knows more about it than you do.
Says who? You forgot to mention that part.
According to who/what? Just out of interest:
Epic of creation: "When in the heights heaven was not named. And the Earth beneath did not yet bear a name, and the primeval Apsu, who begat them, and chaos, Tiamet, the mother of them both, Their waters were mingled together, and no field was formed no marsh was to be seen. When of the gods none had been called into being, and none bore a name, and no destinies were ordained. They were created the gods in the midst of heaven."
"... Let me put blood together and bones too, let me set up primeval man: Man shall be his name...", "... The work of the gods shall be imposed on him..." In Atra Hasis, "... Nintu mixed clay, with her flesh and blood, they heard the drumbeat forever after, a ghost (soul) came into existence from the god's flesh and she (Nintu) proclaimed it a living sign." Later on "... I myself created (it), my hands have made (it)..."
Very similar to Genesis? Of course, Genesis is but a later translation of this writing.
Gen 2:7, "And God formed the man (Adam) of dust from the ground, and he blew into his nostrils the soul of life and the man (Adam) became a living being."
Just out of interest the Sumerian word for dust/earth is actually 'Adama'. Now isn't it entirely possible that throughout the thousand + years it took to translate this work from handed down stories, the problems with perfect translation, and the effect from 'chinese whispers', that the word Adama for 'dust' or 'earth' turned into a name: Adam? Its an easy mistake to make in my opinion, especially after a gap expanding a millennium. Also as a point of interest the Sumerian word for red/blood is Adom, (as seen in: 'Nintu mixed clay, with her flesh and blood'. That's two instances of a similar sounding word, and something that could easily be misconstrued as a name after 1000 or so years.
In Sumerian E-din means: e=house, din=purity/righteous. So we could establish this as house of purity-..... so man was in the garden of the house of purity? Again an easy translation error to make, especially after 1000+ years. It has been misconstrued possibly as a name instead of a meaning.
Even in Ezekial where they mention crying for Tammuz... It's actually from Sumerian Dumuzi who was a God unable to be revived.
I can give you many more instances of Sumerian 'hand downs', but unless you research into this how can you be so sure of your own belief? Reading this is not intended to break your belief in a god or gods, but to search for answers, whether we want to hear them or not. To just dismiss something without looking into it is ignorance personified. We've all read the bible, how many have looked further than that? How many just accept without questioning its validity? You don't stop half way through a journey and say "This'll do." If you do that, which you apparently have, you have no place to debate these issues.
Doesn't this leave questions?? Of course it does, and the only way to find answers is to search for the truth to those questions. Closing your eyes and ears off to any form of evidence other than what you believe is not only saddening but also the hindering factor in mankinds progression of knowledge.
There is absolutely no doubt the Sumerian texts preceed the texts from the bible. As the original source we must analyse them. How can you be so certain of what the bible tells you without even reading the original? That's like me writing a bible of my own right now and people accepting it as total fact without reading the bible that predates mine by 2000 years. You are doing that very thing, and seem quite content with it. Bizarre.
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One more thing: My forum name, (SnakeLord), which you seem so fond of joking around with, has followed me around for 20+ years. When i was a kid i stumbled upon a snake while out playing. I picked the snake up, put it in a box i found and took it home. The snake turned out to be poisonous and had managed to 'escape' from a specialist pet shop burglary. I became known as snakeman and have been called that for a long damn time now. I changed it to snakelord when i started playing ultima online It just seemed more appropriate.
You may wonder why im telling you this, here's the moral:
Some may consider it a miracle of god that i wasn't bitten and consequently died.
Some may think i'm a descendant of Dr Doolittle. etc etc...
We all have beliefs. They are just beliefs. Nothing is ever fact. The only way to ever achieve a status of fact is by research and study and even then it's highly inprobable in such circumstances we'll ever get anywhere close to 'fact'.
If you remain so closed off to alternatives how can we ever find a real answer? You assume you have the right answer, but it is just an assumption. Let's work together and look for answers, no matter what that might be. Insulting me and my name is irrelevant and solves nothing. That name has followed me my whole life- i'm proud of it- not because god saved my life but because i was fucking lucky, and like to remember that. If indeed it was God who saved me then im also happy to use that name in rememberance and thanks for what he/she/it did.
If you still dont understand what im talking about i refer to one of your posts where you attempt to discredit me merely because my name is 'stupid'.
So now, in mature manner, let me see things from your perspective.
It just seemed more appropriate.You may wonder why im telling you this, here's the moral:
Some may consider it a miracle of god that i wasn't bitten and consequently died.
Some may think i'm a descendant of Dr Doolittle. etc etc...
We all have beliefs. They are just beliefs. Nothing is ever fact. The only way to ever achieve a status of fact is by research and study and even then it's highly inprobable in such circumstances we'll ever get anywhere close to 'fact'.
If you remain so closed off to alternatives how can we ever find a real answer? You assume you have the right answer, but it is just an assumption. Let's work together and look for answers, no matter what that might be. Insulting me and my name is irrelevant and solves nothing. That name has followed me my whole life- i'm proud of it- not because god saved my life but because i was fucking lucky, and like to remember that. If indeed it was God who saved me then im also happy to use that name in rememberance and thanks for what he/she/it did.
If you still dont understand what im talking about i refer to one of your posts where you attempt to discredit me merely because my name is 'stupid'.
So now, in mature manner, let me see things from your perspective.
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Not saying there couldn't have been a civilization then, before the Bible starts with The whole face of the earth was covered with water, see it starts with a flooded condition in Genesis, but I won't speculate what was before that....
As far as I know there is NO evidence that the entire planet flooded at once. I'd expect every part to have been flooded at different times though. It is more possible that the 'known world' flooded, and the survives would have no idea that only their small part of the earth flooded.
Just that there were no continuous civilizations from 4000 B.C that continued un-interupted through till after the flood at 23-2500 B.C.
There is not one that survived the entire time... socities change identities after a couple hundred years. Almost none last 1000 years (Although the Chinese civiization is over 1000 years old, the societies have changed). However, we don't see a sudden disappearance of all societies. The Bible states that only the inhabitants of the ark were saved, yet other civilizations of fair size existed and didn't get wipped out.
007:023 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Besides Mesopotamia is current day Iraq, ...right. So...unless they were a lot better at telling the truth than they are now, ......I wouldn't believe a single word they said.
Besides Jews wrote the Bible, ...right. So...unless wanting to control society is a new thing, ......I wouldn't believe a single word it said.
(See how stupid that sounds?)
Not saying there couldn't have been a civilization then, before the Bible starts with The whole face of the earth was covered with water, see it starts with a flooded condition in Genesis, but I won't speculate what was before that....
As far as I know there is NO evidence that the entire planet flooded at once. I'd expect every part to have been flooded at different times though. It is more possible that the 'known world' flooded, and the survives would have no idea that only their small part of the earth flooded.
Just that there were no continuous civilizations from 4000 B.C that continued un-interupted through till after the flood at 23-2500 B.C.
There is not one that survived the entire time... socities change identities after a couple hundred years. Almost none last 1000 years (Although the Chinese civiization is over 1000 years old, the societies have changed). However, we don't see a sudden disappearance of all societies. The Bible states that only the inhabitants of the ark were saved, yet other civilizations of fair size existed and didn't get wipped out.
007:023 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Besides Mesopotamia is current day Iraq, ...right. So...unless they were a lot better at telling the truth than they are now, ......I wouldn't believe a single word they said.
Besides Jews wrote the Bible, ...right. So...unless wanting to control society is a new thing, ......I wouldn't believe a single word it said.
(See how stupid that sounds?)
You have no proof of these dates....And since they go back to 4000 B.C., if real they could have been carried over on the Ark, and speak of antideluvian culture. Let me offer an explaination.
Those cultures worshiped many gods, including a god of chaos, So they shouldn't be taken at their word.
They had motive to deny a story about a world-wide flood......doing so would discredit The One True God, who caused the flood, and justify their leaders rejection of His insistance of morality.
God was an enemy of their "gods", which were many.
I would consider the source, gods of "chaos" don't exactly sound like the most truthfull creatures on earth.
Take the "story" of the Illuminated Ones, and the Justifed Ancient worshipers of Mumu.
Even in this "legend", you see a battle between the worshipers of chaos, and the children of the light...( who were hiding secret knowledge to save mankind from the "devourer of souls")
This sounds familiar.....but as do other tales, ...of Titans (giants) battling Olympians (immortals)....Hercules..1/2 god 1/2 man.
So many stories from different cultures, it's obvious something was happening.
Here's what I believe happened.
Genesis means "two seeds" and in it is a story of their geneology.
Noah's offspring (Ham excluded) were the Sons of God, and were the enemy of the Giant's and serpent seed that sprung from Ham after the flood.
It was Cains offspring, who builed cites before the flood and Ham's offspring continued the practice afterwards, huddling in the security of numbers for fear of their own muderous nature.
Remember God told Abram when his father Terah died to leave Ur, and seperate from the unbelief of those people.
The children of God alway seperated themselves from unbelief.
See Faith and unbelief are opposites, one hinders the other.
The difference today is on the inside, but at the harvest, the "two seeds" will manifest what they are.
Now read this keeping in mind what I just said....
Elohim was God, and His children ARE the plural attributes referred to in the bible.
These Sons of God before the flood with 900+ year lifespans , prophetic gifts.....Think of the things Elijah and Moses did, and
they mixed with the Sons of Men, serpent seed...
These two races mixed before the flood, and thier offspring are referred to as:
"Mighty men, men of old...men of renoun"
There's your legends of gods .....
Even after the flood, lifespans only slowly decreased....Abraham's father Terah lived to be 205, many generations from the flood.
Those cultures worshiped many gods, including a god of chaos, So they shouldn't be taken at their word.
They had motive to deny a story about a world-wide flood......doing so would discredit The One True God, who caused the flood, and justify their leaders rejection of His insistance of morality.
God was an enemy of their "gods", which were many.
I would consider the source, gods of "chaos" don't exactly sound like the most truthfull creatures on earth.
Take the "story" of the Illuminated Ones, and the Justifed Ancient worshipers of Mumu.
Even in this "legend", you see a battle between the worshipers of chaos, and the children of the light...( who were hiding secret knowledge to save mankind from the "devourer of souls")
This sounds familiar.....but as do other tales, ...of Titans (giants) battling Olympians (immortals)....Hercules..1/2 god 1/2 man.
So many stories from different cultures, it's obvious something was happening.
Here's what I believe happened.
Genesis means "two seeds" and in it is a story of their geneology.
Noah's offspring (Ham excluded) were the Sons of God, and were the enemy of the Giant's and serpent seed that sprung from Ham after the flood.
It was Cains offspring, who builed cites before the flood and Ham's offspring continued the practice afterwards, huddling in the security of numbers for fear of their own muderous nature.
Remember God told Abram when his father Terah died to leave Ur, and seperate from the unbelief of those people.
The children of God alway seperated themselves from unbelief.
See Faith and unbelief are opposites, one hinders the other.
The difference today is on the inside, but at the harvest, the "two seeds" will manifest what they are.
Now read this keeping in mind what I just said....
Elohim was God, and His children ARE the plural attributes referred to in the bible.
These Sons of God before the flood with 900+ year lifespans , prophetic gifts.....Think of the things Elijah and Moses did, and
they mixed with the Sons of Men, serpent seed...
These two races mixed before the flood, and thier offspring are referred to as:
"Mighty men, men of old...men of renoun"
There's your legends of gods .....
Even after the flood, lifespans only slowly decreased....Abraham's father Terah lived to be 205, many generations from the flood.
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SnakeLord wrote
You have to have a factual basis for any belief, otherwise the belief is equivalent to chasing after dreams. Christianity stands or falls on the resurrection. If it is just a belief then it should be easy to disprove if the resurrection did not happen. The facts regarding the resurrection of Jesus were investigated by scholars, both American and British, and the veracity of the New Testament was tested by historians and archaeologists. No other event in history has had more scrutiny by scholars, both pro and con, yet it still stands as the cornerstone of the Christian faith because it is based on history, the testimony of the disciples, and the fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible. My belief does not come into play until I understand and accept the reasons for the resurrection.
God has shown He exists by an interaction with men through the resurrection of Jesus. If for reasons of your own you do not want to investigate the facts surrounding the resurrection then that is your choice. But Christianity stands or falls on the resurrection of Jesus. It is a historical event and independent of anyone’s belief. Belief comes into play when people understand the reasons why it happened. (Isaiah 53)
(For someone who doesn’t ‘rely’ on ancient Sumerian documents, you certainly do a lot of quoting from it when in discussion with others.)
(Let me think here. ‘If I can’t disprove evolution, it doesn’t instantly make it a fact.’ Hmmm… ‘If I can’t disprove gravity, it doesn’t instantly make it a fact.’ Hmmm… ‘If I can’t disprove aliens exist, it doesn’t instantly make it a fact.’) I don’t think you want to make that statement because that sort of logic is full of holes.
The challenge was to prove or disprove the resurrection by viewing the facts behind the trial, the death, and resurrection, not a ‘disprove or its true’ attitude. You completely missed my point, or my post.
You have to have a factual basis for any belief, otherwise the belief is equivalent to chasing after dreams. Christianity stands or falls on the resurrection. If it is just a belief then it should be easy to disprove if the resurrection did not happen. The facts regarding the resurrection of Jesus were investigated by scholars, both American and British, and the veracity of the New Testament was tested by historians and archaeologists. No other event in history has had more scrutiny by scholars, both pro and con, yet it still stands as the cornerstone of the Christian faith because it is based on history, the testimony of the disciples, and the fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible. My belief does not come into play until I understand and accept the reasons for the resurrection.
Actually it proves that the facts surrounding the resurrection can stand up under legal scrutiny in a court of law. This is legal proof. And it is this proof that leads to the conclusion it is a historical fact. (And I hope your not implying that American lawyers are better than British lawyers.)
History does not depend on my belief. My belief comes into play when I understand the reasons behind the historical event. And history has shown the end results of the witnesses to the resurrection – horrible executions. If Jesus was dead and the body was still in the tomb, then these men lied in seeing him alive and they knew it was a lie. Yet they professed seeing him alive and were executed. Psychiatrists can point to people that will sacrifice their lives over philosophical ideals and beliefs, which later could be false. But psychiatrists and criminologists agree that nobody goes to death for a lie. Nobody is willing to die for what they know from the very beginning is a lie. You may deny history but that does not change the fact that these men were willing to die for what they saw. To deny history is foolishness.
I have respected your opinion throughout my posted responses. If you have gleaned from them that I had considered you mad, my apologizes, because that was not my intention with our discussion before then. But your recent responses to my posts contain no justification or support for your logic. It is full of circular arguments and doubletalk. You have ridiculed scholars and their studies with speculative reasons and extrapolated assumptions and without an intelligent rebuttal. And you have placed a double standard on others beliefs, skeptical of what they believe except for what you believe. What other opinion on your character can you fault me with than what you have stated?
Again, you better re-think about using that statement. That sort of logic is full of holes.
God has shown He exists by an interaction with men through the resurrection of Jesus. If for reasons of your own you do not want to investigate the facts surrounding the resurrection then that is your choice. But Christianity stands or falls on the resurrection of Jesus. It is a historical event and independent of anyone’s belief. Belief comes into play when people understand the reasons why it happened. (Isaiah 53)
(For someone who doesn’t ‘rely’ on ancient Sumerian documents, you certainly do a lot of quoting from it when in discussion with others.)
Let's talk of current day, there are many things to be said which could of before times not be uttered....
Rev 10:1-6
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer.
The Lamb, whos sit on the mercy seat, interceding thoughout the ages, gets up takes the book, breaks the Seals, and reveals The Son of Man (Jesus Christ the Word, in it's fullness) from heaven.
This is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
This all took place in 1963, (the cloud was pictured in life magizine, science magizine and about every other scientific journal known to man in 1963 as an unexplained "mystery" cloud
look it up....http://www.biblebelievers.org/lcomm5.htm
Pillars of fire... http://freie-volksmission.org/english/
click on the picture for details
And he had in his hand a little book open.......Who did ? Christ.
http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=921
that there should be time no longer....Rev. 10:7, Mal, 4:5-6
This marks the end of the seven church ages (1963)
Rev 18:1-4 marks the Churches as being "The Great Harlot" and those in them as having the"Mark of the Beast" - with their false doctrine in the"forehead" of their revelation, and the "right hand" of fellowship. There may be many good people in there, they need to come out. Rev 18:4
Come out to where?....Jesus said "unles you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man you'll have no life in you.
Rev 19:9 Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. ...(True means complete)
Rev 10:7 says
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
What mystery...? Christ in you the hope of Glory.
Christ, is the Word...and the whole, complete revelation of that Word has been witheld from man till this day....lying in the scriptures, nothing added....but when the Seals on the book (the bible) are opened these "mystery truths" are revealed.
Rev.19:9 " And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
Look in Dan. it talks of a kingdom to be set up in the last days, which shall never pass away.....
In the days of the kings reprsented by the toes of the image daniel saw....the toes were made of iron and clay and would not mix.
This happened in 1955, when Kruchevz and Eisenhower met at the U.N. and Kruchev took off his shoe (to reveal toes) and beat his shoe on the podeum in anger and said "We will bury you"....Kruchev means clay, and Eisenhower means Iron.....In the days of these kings, a kingdom (of God) will be set up..
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal"
The angels shows John the Lamb's Bride... and it's the city....see
The tabernacle of God is with men.
The Glory of God, in His people....A crystal clear light, a revelation of HIs Word. His Glory in them, a people of a Kingdom, set up today, which shall never pass away.
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name(Jesus the Word, in it's completion) shall be in their foreheads(stands for revelation). 5 And there shall be no night(Darkness) there; and they need no candle(church age messinger), neither light of the sun(they are redeemed); for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true (they have become the Word)
The restored kingdom of the redeemed Sons and Daughters of God.
Rev 10:1-6
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer.
The Lamb, whos sit on the mercy seat, interceding thoughout the ages, gets up takes the book, breaks the Seals, and reveals The Son of Man (Jesus Christ the Word, in it's fullness) from heaven.
This is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
This all took place in 1963, (the cloud was pictured in life magizine, science magizine and about every other scientific journal known to man in 1963 as an unexplained "mystery" cloud
look it up....http://www.biblebelievers.org/lcomm5.htm
Pillars of fire... http://freie-volksmission.org/english/
click on the picture for details
And he had in his hand a little book open.......Who did ? Christ.
http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=921
that there should be time no longer....Rev. 10:7, Mal, 4:5-6
This marks the end of the seven church ages (1963)
Rev 18:1-4 marks the Churches as being "The Great Harlot" and those in them as having the"Mark of the Beast" - with their false doctrine in the"forehead" of their revelation, and the "right hand" of fellowship. There may be many good people in there, they need to come out. Rev 18:4
Come out to where?....Jesus said "unles you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man you'll have no life in you.
Rev 19:9 Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. ...(True means complete)
Rev 10:7 says
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
What mystery...? Christ in you the hope of Glory.
Christ, is the Word...and the whole, complete revelation of that Word has been witheld from man till this day....lying in the scriptures, nothing added....but when the Seals on the book (the bible) are opened these "mystery truths" are revealed.
Rev.19:9 " And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
Look in Dan. it talks of a kingdom to be set up in the last days, which shall never pass away.....
In the days of the kings reprsented by the toes of the image daniel saw....the toes were made of iron and clay and would not mix.
This happened in 1955, when Kruchevz and Eisenhower met at the U.N. and Kruchev took off his shoe (to reveal toes) and beat his shoe on the podeum in anger and said "We will bury you"....Kruchev means clay, and Eisenhower means Iron.....In the days of these kings, a kingdom (of God) will be set up..
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal"
The angels shows John the Lamb's Bride... and it's the city....see
The tabernacle of God is with men.
The Glory of God, in His people....A crystal clear light, a revelation of HIs Word. His Glory in them, a people of a Kingdom, set up today, which shall never pass away.
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name(Jesus the Word, in it's completion) shall be in their foreheads(stands for revelation). 5 And there shall be no night(Darkness) there; and they need no candle(church age messinger), neither light of the sun(they are redeemed); for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true (they have become the Word)
The restored kingdom of the redeemed Sons and Daughters of God.
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Ok, gravity is a proven fact, supported by every single person on this planet- all you need do is throw an apple in the air to find out it's validity. As it is proven fact it can no longer be disproven. You seem to be going completely out of context. However to keep this discussion short i hereby challenge you to disprove the existence of aliens. Until that time, you, me and everyone on this planet must regard their existence as fact... right?
Should be: Challenge was to prove or disprove the ressurrection by viewing the evidence. <------- not 'viewing the facts'. Anything written 2000 years ago cannot be regarded as total undeniable fact. It has not been proven that it happened, in fact the only way to prove such a thing is to have witnessed it first hand.
No. Not one religion or belief has 'fact'. There's many cases of evidence and theories but there is no 'fact' to show anything as being ultimately true. If that were the case we'd all be the same religion, and believe in the same god. It also wouldn't be called 'belief' anymore, because it would in fact be fact. We would know, instead of believing. The term 'faith' would also be long gone.
Like i said the only way to prove or disprove something of this nature is to have seen it first hand. Without being there and simply relying on a book written by someone we can never achieve a factual answer.
The evidence regarding.....
If it stands as the cornerstone of the Christian faith then obviously it has not been proven. Like i said; if it had have been proven you wouldn't call it 'faith' or 'belief'. We'd all acknowledge the same thing as being fact. For example: nobody refers to gravity as belief or faith. We dont say: 'My faith in gravity...', because that is a proven fact.
You say to me: "If it is just a belief then it should be easy to disprove if the resurrection did not happen"....... The same applies the other way then surely?
"If it is actual fact then it should be easy to prove that the resurrection did happen." ......... In your own words its been more highly scrutinized than anything else and yet it still remains nothing more than a belief, nothing more than faith. Instead we have several billion people all claiming their 'belief' is right and yours is wrong, and vice versa. Who are you to say you are right, and the jews, hindus, wiccans, ancient greeks etc etc are all mistaken? Once we have proof forums like this wont exist and we'll all be happy. There'll be no religious based wars, churches will have roofs that never leak thanks to a world of churchgoing donaters, and we'll all strive to do good in order to reach heaven.
For the third time: evidence surrounding.... It isn't fact. If it was we'd all be the same religion etc etc as mentioned above. Also note 'proof' is a strong word, dont use it unless you can substantiate it, which you can't.
If it was a factual historical event you wouldn't regard anything as 'belief'. Your belief is a belief. It is not fact. I'm not saying it's wrong- you're entitled to your belief- but it is just a belief.
Witnesses? Oh, you mean the people we have absolutely no way of interrogating? The people we dont actually know, have never seen and for all intents and purposes might have been delusional psychotic sheep herders. As for 'nobody is willing to die for what they know from the very beginning is a lie'...... How many people lied and died during the second world war? Not willing to give away allied positions to the enemy and thus meaning the end of their own life? This is but one example, there are countless billions of examples where people would die for a lie. I would happily lie and die if it prevented something happening to my family, my daughter etc. Whatever criminologist or psychiatrist you've been speaking to is wrong. Unless of course they happen to know the minds of all 6 billion people on the planet?
"To deny history is foolishness'..... That's a silly statement. Work it out for yourself.
Yes they do.
I haven't ridiculed anyone. I'm merely stating that it is not fact. Some reasons to prove it isn't fact can be seen above. Not to mention until everyone sees the global news stating: "PROVEN: THE CHRISTIAN GOD IS REAL! FACT!", it will remain in your own words: A belief, or faith. As for intelligent rebuttals..... Your own conclusions are your own conclusions and you're free to make them. Even i'd agree with you if God was 'fact'.
No i'm merely trying to point out it isn't 'fact'. I don't give a damn what people believe. I don't expect them to conform to what i believe either. What i'm saying is: It isn't 'fact'. If it was fact you and i wouldnt be here and you wouldn't need to worry about me being skeptical about other peoples beliefs, seeings as yours would be 'fact'.
No it isn't. But to save argument for the second time in this post: Disprove the existence of alien beings. Otherwise it's fact right?
"God has shown he exists" <---- assumption. No fact can be drawn from that statement.
"if... you dont want to investigate the facts" <----- evidence. I have looked at the evidence long and hard. It remains just that: Evidence. If it was 'fact'....... etc etc etc.
Well people here like to use the bible as their source of information. As such i prefer to look at the original work.
Well people here like to use the bible as their source of information. As such i prefer to look at the original work
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The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
{{{{{}}}}
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Reply to all the religious opinions... (Even the religious legalists)
It's all a bunch of "yada, yada, yada"! Theories and opinions that never get anyone anywhere! People, muster up the courage to ask GOD if He is God! Be absolutely sincere! Humble yourself. Drop your opinions. Ask HIM the tough questions. If He is indeed God, He will be Big enough to speak for Himself!
A sincere prayer such as this: "God, I admit my limitations in knowledge; I am willing to be wrong if necessary, I lay it all down to sincerely ask you these questions:
Are You real?
Are You relational?
Are You the God of the Bible, and of Jesus Christ?
Is the Jesus story true?
What do You think of me??
Do You REALLY exist??
What are You all about???
What do You want for my life????
Then shut up! Be STILL, and have the courage to find out if He is God or not. But quit bullshitting with all the meaningless opinions and arguments-and GO TO THE SOURCE if you really want to know if there is one! Quit playing games- prideful intellectual gymnastics just so you can always be right about everything. Be daring. Be willing to be wrong. Be willing to change, if necessary. Take the chance. And most of all-be teachable!
The story of The God of The Bible imposes His will on no one. You have to want Him to Connect with Him. You have to Humble yourself - after all this is GOD we are talking about!
It's all a bunch of "yada, yada, yada"! Theories and opinions that never get anyone anywhere! People, muster up the courage to ask GOD if He is God! Be absolutely sincere! Humble yourself. Drop your opinions. Ask HIM the tough questions. If He is indeed God, He will be Big enough to speak for Himself!
A sincere prayer such as this: "God, I admit my limitations in knowledge; I am willing to be wrong if necessary, I lay it all down to sincerely ask you these questions:
Are You real?
Are You relational?
Are You the God of the Bible, and of Jesus Christ?
Is the Jesus story true?
What do You think of me??
Do You REALLY exist??
What are You all about???
What do You want for my life????
Then shut up! Be STILL, and have the courage to find out if He is God or not. But quit bullshitting with all the meaningless opinions and arguments-and GO TO THE SOURCE if you really want to know if there is one! Quit playing games- prideful intellectual gymnastics just so you can always be right about everything. Be daring. Be willing to be wrong. Be willing to change, if necessary. Take the chance. And most of all-be teachable!
The story of The God of The Bible imposes His will on no one. You have to want Him to Connect with Him. You have to Humble yourself - after all this is GOD we are talking about!